Tried to heel toe,,,,it went wrong.
- Thread starter Sukh
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there isn't much point in cars on the road, it's done on bikes to match the speed so the back wheel doesn't lock up on a downshift(it happens quite easily).
If you can do it without thinking about it in a car it's far nicer to drive and lowers clutch wear, get it wrong and it feels horrid.
If you can do it without thinking about it in a car it's far nicer to drive and lowers clutch wear, get it wrong and it feels horrid.
Sounds like meI used to know a kid who blipped the throttle everywhere he went, whether he was changing up or down
Although blipping when changing up tends to make it more jerky
I do it almost all the time when shifting down now, although I started to do it properly when I got my exhaust
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Heel and toeing is awesome fun and you can do it in any manual . I do it with my Rover, and it's better for the gearbox + clutch too.
As said before it's great for practice when moving up cars.
I practice a lot on driving sims with my G27 too.
. I do it with my Rover, and it's better for the gearbox + clutch too.As said before it's great for practice when moving up cars.
I practice a lot on driving sims with my G27 too.
I learnt to heal and toe in my Integra. Integra will lurch if lifting clutch without matching revs.
It's good also for reduced braking, as you can constant break while bliping throttle to change down.
It's also handy if your tuning into a tight corner, and want weight transfer over front end. You can break & change down late while keeping car smooth, and lift clutch just in time to get car turned in, all the time keeping pressure on brake so some weight transfer is over front (help turn-in). Once nose is in corner transfer back to throttle and pull car around corner (of course you also in the correct gear for pulling out), countering the weight transfer and lighter rear that just happened while you were braking.
Again also good in wet as being smooth with heal and toe, there is no unnecessary weight transfers that could upset the car.
It's good also for reduced braking, as you can constant break while bliping throttle to change down.
It's also handy if your tuning into a tight corner, and want weight transfer over front end. You can break & change down late while keeping car smooth, and lift clutch just in time to get car turned in, all the time keeping pressure on brake so some weight transfer is over front (help turn-in). Once nose is in corner transfer back to throttle and pull car around corner (of course you also in the correct gear for pulling out), countering the weight transfer and lighter rear that just happened while you were braking.
Again also good in wet as being smooth with heal and toe, there is no unnecessary weight transfers that could upset the car.
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You're blipping the throttle and changing down a gear, so you have to be slowing down enough to actually necessitate that next gear, or it's a bit of a wasted exercise. More than anything, I was picking up on the OP's point that he is getting resistance when trying to select a lower gear so I wanted to know if he was slowing down enough to actually warrant the lower gear.
I used to know a kid who blipped the throttle everywhere he went, whether he was changing up or down
I blip (sometimes) when changing down, am I weird?
What the hell is heel/toe? This some sort of youngster speed move im not aware of
Quite the opposite actually! In the days before syncromesh gearboxes you needed to heel and toe in order to change gear. It's something your parents/grandparents may have had to do in their first cars!
The syncromesh matches the speed of the gears for you. Without a syncromesh you have to do it yourself by blipping the throttle by the right amount.
In proper racing cars you don't have a syncromesh. If you shift without heel and toeing you will soon damage the dogs (the part of the gear that meshes together to engage the gear)
The other reason is that if you don't heel and toe, although you may manage to engage the gear, when the engine is re-engaged it has to speed up to the same speed as the gearbox. The resistance generated by this can cause the rear wheels to lock and spin you off the track.
There is no need to heel and toe in a road car with a syncromesh gearbox. Equally there is probably no harm either - the syncromesh has to work less so may last longer. When pressing on, if you heel and toe correctly, the smoother downshift will also keep the car more balanced. It's good practice too if you ever intend to race a proper racing car.
Sounds like me
Although blipping when changing up tends to make it more jerky
I do it almost all the time when shifting down now, although I started to do it properly when I got my exhaust
Don't blip when you shift up. It's counter productive.
When you shift down, you need to speed the engine up to the same speed required for the new gear hence you blip the throttle.
When you shift up, you actually need the engine revs to be lower for the new gear. By blipping the throttle you actually are increasing the difference which is why you find it jerky!
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my old golf is on 232k miles. i got it at 144k and the clutch was changed at 154k. i have beaten the life out of that car, it has lived an extremely hard life, the gearbox is still original though, and i think H&T can take some credit for that
This, I used to have to do it in an old Polo Estate!
Makes no difference, it's the same for both.
The pedals are set up quite nicely on the Mk1 Octavia for H&T
provided its a conventional manual box, the same principals are there
footwork wise, left foot braking can be clever in FI, but LFB is properly difficult to get right
H&T is good for mechanical sympathy and will save stress on engine, clutch and gearbox IF you drive on the limit, otherwise it is for track only.
A normal driver who isn't hammering his car around has no need to heel and toe, as the correct procedure is to select the correct gear in one hit and then match revs before re-engaging the clutch. Engine braking has no place in road driving anymore, barring exceptionally poor conditions that do not require H&T.
The best practice people can work on is rev-matching (upshift and downshift) as it is the biggest contributor to smooth driving on a manual car. Your passengers will thank you as it helps eliminate the see-saw motion that makes prople travel sick.
For the record, selecting the correct gear and rev matching has all the benefits of H&T in terms of mechanical sympathy, you will just be a fraction of a second slower getting the right gear for the corner.
H&T offers no benefit to a synchromesh transmission UNLESS you double clutch, as revving the engine with the clutch pressed WILL NOT spin up the mainshaft to the same speed as the layshaft.
A normal driver who isn't hammering his car around has no need to heel and toe, as the correct procedure is to select the correct gear in one hit and then match revs before re-engaging the clutch. Engine braking has no place in road driving anymore, barring exceptionally poor conditions that do not require H&T.
The best practice people can work on is rev-matching (upshift and downshift) as it is the biggest contributor to smooth driving on a manual car. Your passengers will thank you as it helps eliminate the see-saw motion that makes prople travel sick.
For the record, selecting the correct gear and rev matching has all the benefits of H&T in terms of mechanical sympathy, you will just be a fraction of a second slower getting the right gear for the corner.
H&T offers no benefit to a synchromesh transmission UNLESS you double clutch, as revving the engine with the clutch pressed WILL NOT spin up the mainshaft to the same speed as the layshaft.
Post makes no sense.
Engine braking has no place in road driving any more, lolwut?
Can't really see separating downshifting and braking catching on. This is going to mean either over-revving the engine on entry, or bogging on exit. Just what is the point when both can be done smoothly simultaneously.
I guess it depends how hard you are driving - I often slow down by changing down (and rev-matching for smoothness) rather than scream up to the corner and then bang down the box. If you are not on an out and out banzai drive then you can easily not H&T but when you are driving at full attack it is obviously needed.
Wow someone needs to take some advanced driving lessons, I am loathe to use the "I have been driving and racing longer than you have been alive" comeback, but I will in this case, as coupled with police class 1 training and racing for many years, you clearly have no idea how to distinguish between road and track driving.
Reading is also an issue for you as well it would seem, but maybe you can tell me other than poor conditions that require cautious braking (or none), where engine braking is better or improves todays modern brakes?
How is the engine going to out brake the brakes? (assuming your brakes are correctly specced and well maintained).
Here re some quotes from you from expert road drivers.
Oh really? you have sequential transmission on your car? Or you are not skilled enough to move from 5th to 2nd without using all the intervening gears?
I mean, how is it any harder to go from 5th to 2nd than it is from 5th to 4th to 3rd to 2nd whilst braking and rev matching?
Ever heard of brake gear overlap?
as you would have to be driving like a total **** on the road to benefit from H&T.