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Trump's continuing war on China . . . Making America Great Again

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by stockhausen, May 20, 2019.

  1. stockhausen

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2006

    Posts: 9,359

    I can quite believe that Google are not altogether happy about this since it will potentially not only limit their ability to harvest user activity details going forward but may also encourage someone (probably in China or Russia) to develop an alternative (allegedly "open and secure") Smartphone OS.

    However, from Trump's perspective it will discourage people from buying any model of Smartphone from the world's second biggest Smartphone maker.

    I guess that Apple will be happy, except that their batteries (and possibly other components) may be harder to source in future ;)

    Still, let's look on the bright side, commercial warfare is undoubtedly preferable to nuclear warfare :)
     
  2. Minusorange

    Mobster

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    Posts: 3,788

  3. DrBombcrater

    Hitman

    Joined: Jan 18, 2008

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    Location: UK

    For Huawei's phone division that would seem to be an extinction level event. They can't build their own ARM-compatible chips any more and no ARM licensee is going to touch them with a bargepole for fear of being cut off by ARM. I suspect the same will swiftly happen in regards to their cellular technology. Qualcomm almost certainly won't deal with Huawei, and neither will any vendor who's chipset depends on technology or patents owned by any US entity.
     
  4. jsmoke

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 17, 2012

    Posts: 7,063

    Yep Trump is going postal, he's really got it in for China and pretty much no evidence of spying/hacking in huawei devices that's been made public anyway.

    But the US are being taken advantage of with unfair tariffs and curency manipluation, have a look at the biggest structure's in the world, dozens are currently being built in China. Same with dams and many other structures such as rail/transport.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings

    I read an article how several prisons in Arizona can't even supply working locks to cells and various other things. That's a smaller example I know but apparently a lot of their infrastructure in falling apart yet China are building state-of-the-art buildings all over the place so he does have a point.
     
  5. Roar87

    Soldato

    Joined: May 10, 2012

    Posts: 5,087

    Location: Leeds

    I wonder how much technology China has stolen from American companies, people should realise that Trump has access to everything China is doing behind the scenes, all the cyber attacks, espionage, South China sea stuff, etc. It's not exactly a one sided affair.
     
  6. TheOracle

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 30, 2005

    Posts: 10,892

    When you stand back and look at what's happening, Trump actually has a point. Good on him to be honest.
     
  7. DrBombcrater

    Hitman

    Joined: Jan 18, 2008

    Posts: 654

    Location: UK

    No matter what anyone thinks of him personally, Trump is going to win this one. China has provoked the US into retaliation too soon, to be safe they needed to be at the point where the US is dependant on Chinese technology - no just Chinese manufacturing. And that's not even close to being true. Every major Chinese company is now taking a good hard look at how they would be affected by a US blacklisting and probably not much liking the answer.

    I can understand why the Chinese government jumped before they were ready, though. Like all countries they are driven by their history, and in the pre-communism days the western powers repeatedly humiliated China. It's understandable they want to make sure that never happens again, but they've made the classic mistake of going to war (espionage, trade and economic war rather than the shooting kind fortunately) while still too weak to ensure victory.
     
  8. esmozz

    Gangster

    Joined: Oct 24, 2013

    Posts: 117

    I really don't understand this.

    Any sensitive information sent should be encrypted anyway, so in the theoretical event of evesdropping on the data, damage should be very limited. Plus I'm pretty sure every country in the world to some degree, spys on every other country.

    I don't see this issue between the U.S. and China going anywhere good.
     
  9. Bar

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 9, 2004

    Posts: 2,534

    anyone ever read Tom Clancys books - quite a few talked about trade wars with the Far East, not saying its going to happen but its an interesting narrative
     
  10. Semple

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 5, 2010

    Posts: 5,189

    As much as it's having a negative spin on the rest of the world, i can't help but think a bit of a storm like this might actually be good.

    China has unfortunately had it good for far too long now. If they paid their workforce a decent wage, and had high standards wrt safety and quality etc then businesses wouldn't be rushing to China as it'll be just as costly to manufacture there.

    Trumps point is that China exports something like 500bn to the US, whereas the other way round it's something meagre like 50-100bn. That means a lot of things Americans are buying aren't even made in America. The only way to force companies to stop cheap manufacturing in China is by imposing huge tariffs on these goods. And frankly there is very little China can do about it. They can impose their own tariffs, but these in no-way would add up to soften the blow.

    With Huawei being thrown into the mix as well, with countrywide bans on literally anything to do with Huawei now, will have significant impact to the value of their company. I was reading about ARM suspending all ties, which is fine for Huawei's current generation of smartphones, but for any future generation they don't have any chips to use.
     
  11. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

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    Ironically the only state that has been proven to spy on peoples phones is.....the USA. After the Edward Snowdon whistle-blowing.
     
  12. TheOracle

    Capodecina

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    Yep, I agree. Even if things like iPhones are more expensive if they make them in America......it's only more expensive if they maintain current profit margins. I'm picking on apple here, but we all know the kinds of bonuses these top level execs get.
    Palm everything off to China so we can maximize profits for ourselves........everyone else gains a little, not nothing, not a lot, just a little.
     
  13. Minusorange

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    America, the bastion of Capitalism getting upset because communist China tries to play the Capitalism game by undercutting rivals in order to take market share
     
  14. TheOracle

    Capodecina

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    oh it's a dog eat dog world for sure
     
  15. Minusorange

    Mobster

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    It's ironic because for decades they've been fighting against the bogeyman of Communism and now when these Communist nations start to embrace Capitalism and we finally think the cold war might be at an end, the gloves come off
     
  16. Semple

    Soldato

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    Posts: 5,189

    But that's a good thing. No one country should be able to dominate markets etc for significant periods of time.

    I always remember when i first took an interest in computers, and i think it was a teacher who said to me that the UK are outsourcing a lot of their development work to India because the labour cost was significantly cheaper. Over the last 10 years or so, the wages in India have continued to rise to a level where it's no longer cheaper to outsource and in most cases it's more cost effective to actually train up and develop within the UK. In theory though, as wages in the UK continue to grow (at least in software dev), there will eventually be another tipping point where it becomes significantly cheaper to outsource again. And so the cycle carries on.

    I guess in principle, the world markets play a very similar game.
     
  17. peterwalkley

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    China is in a hurry because it needs to get rich before it gets old. The fallout from their "one child" policy is that there is the demographic time bomb coming of pensioners significantly out-numbering those of working age. Average life expectancy there is on a par with, and often better than the west.
     
  18. mmj_uk

    Capodecina

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    The west shouldn't be building up a communist on it's way to being totalitarian country to be fair, all of the hysteria about Russia collusion and election hacking China have far better technology and manpower to achieve that sort of thing but nobody bats an eyelid. They could also be doing it and framing Russia.
     
  19. deuse

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    I Agree.
     
  20. jsmoke

    Soldato

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    The US is becoming more communist and China more capitalist.