Trying to break in to IT infrastructure field

[opethdisciple]

Apologise for yet ANOTHER of my threads discussing my job.

The problem is it keeps changing direction, based on what is developing at work and what I am hearing from requiters.

I've been working for 8 years in a 1/2 line support role. It's a Linux environment with windows and mac desktops.

I'm 34 now and want more money, I want to get my own place etc... which means I have to sort out the job NOW.

Most importantly I want to do something more interesting than dealing with other peoples useless crappy problems which are mostly of their own creation.

Not to waffle on too much, my plan was/is to study this year. My objectives are to study for the LPIC 1+2 (Linux course) and then ideally do the Cisco CCNA.

I want to move away from technical support and in to engineering, infrastructure or devops.

However the last recruiter I spoke to put the spanner in the works slightly by saying that book learning will not help me break in to this field.

I'm not sure if he realised these certs are more than just book learning. The LPIC you have to be able to install and configure the full spectrum of Linux related technologies (to a baseline level) and the CCNA is quite a hands on course.

Of course I realise, that study is always beneficial, but will I still struggle to move on from my current job even if I had the LPIC 1+2 and the CCNA on my cv?

I'm hoping there are companies out there which will take you on if you show the right aptitude but don't necessarily have the experience. A junior position for example.

The recruiter said the way to break into this field would be to take a job doing what I do now, but in a company with an infrastructure department, where I could eventually move in to.

There is also a microscopic chance that at my current job I can get involved with what I want to do. But my manager has said he wont let me do anything until I have passed the LPIC exams.

The other important point is there already is two other Linux engineers on the team and the other stuff I do in my day to day role will still be there even if I did pass the exams, meaning I really wouldn't have that much time to get stuck in.

So my question is, how on earth am I going to move on from technical support?

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The other pesky issue I've realised is staying at current employer for 8 years has back fired. Some perfect looking jobs, say must have no more than 3 years experience.... which rules me out!

I've got the years but not the experience.

 

[opethdisciple]

Even with the practical elements in the certifications they are still "book learning" as you haven't used that learning in the real world.

If they will give you more responsibilities if you pass the LPIC cert then it may be worth doing that, just to get some experience, and then move on.

This is true. But I hope there are companies out there that don't mind taking on junior level admins who don't have much actual engineering exp.

I guess your right, that I have to get current employer to give me more responsibilities, but like I said they have two Linux admins already.

Not enough work to go round and they would not be happy sharing some of my work load as they are very happy and content in the knowledge that I do most of the user support and they do the more interesting stuff.

This is partly one of the reasons why I've been angry recently, as I noticed through out 2015, as they got pay raises, they started doing less and less of the user support leaving it all to me. Which in turn means I have less time to do more interesting stuff my self. Whilst I stayed on current wages and didn't get a raise.

I did bring this up with manager so he is aware.

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My career from the beginning has been like this to be honest. At the beginning due to me having done a masters degree, I was either being told I was over qualified or under experienced. Eventually current employer took me on.

Seems like I'm going to be in the same place again just at a higher level.

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But doing some certs can only help my cause and eventually someone somewhere will take me on?

 

[opethdisciple]

Just doing a bit of a google, it seems that with a CCNA I might be able to find a junior role, where I might get in with very little actual commercial experience.

Possibly?

On the Linux side, it seems that they want you to have a Red Hat cert ideally, but this is prohibitively expensive and hard.

What I like about the LPIC certs, is that when I look through the syllabus, it is EXACTLY what the other guys are doing in the office. So I know it's worth its salt.

The other thing with the LPIC, is that IBM are on board. They even provide study material. (IBM is a big thing in my company - the main frame is an IBM machine)

 

[opethdisciple]

Devops is where the cash is, automation like Chef/Puppet/Ansible, AWS, Docker, CI (Jenkins, etc).

Networking still earns a bit (people will always require networking also), certainly more than support and sysadmin's where people are ten-a-penny. Also, sysadmin these days doesn't demand much specific knowledge/experience and the OS's (Windows) are much more stable, thus they don't command good salaries any more.

DevOps would be fantastic, but I also like the idea of network security etc.

I don't mind, just let me progress from technical support!!

 

[opethdisciple]

Do you think I can test the waters by putting on my CV that I have passed the LPIC levels 1&2 and hold a current CCNA as a test to see if there is any interest in a CV with just certificates but little enterprise level Linux or network engineering experience?

I've looked online at the job sites and I can see junior Linux and CCNA roles. But they still say needs 2 years exp etc...

If this is the case, where do the people with no exp start?

 

[opethdisciple]

With devops what kind of certificates and experience would employers be looking for? Surprisingly I've never heard of this and after a quick search it's something that interests me.

It's Linux. Extensive enterprise Linux experience should do.

My mate who was working with me for two years in a Linux admin role is now doing devops.

Earns big bucks (contracting).

 

[opethdisciple]

DevOps is most definitely not just Linux. It's an adaption of technology deployment, processes and organisation staff structures.

Go and read up on the topic... the Internet is your friend.

I know this. But I was directly referring to Linux devops.

(Blinkered outlook as everyone I know is Linux)

 

[opethdisciple]

Back to this again.

Do you think my plans are solid? Study for the LPIC levels 1 and 2 this year? If I managed to get this done this year (4 exams) I personally think that would be a good achievement. They are not easy exams and they are very hands on.

After that I want to do the CCNA.

However I don't have the hands on experience from work. I don't do any infrastructure stuff at work at all. My job is setting up new user accounts, mobile setup and troubleshooting, VPN trouble shooting, setting up new PC, mobiles etc..... etc etc etc....

Basically wasting my time. I'm way more talented than this, but it suits them at work to keep things as they are. Because they don't want to do these things themselves. So they get the money and they big projects I get the crap that no one wants to do and no raise.

I spoke with my manager before I left for my xmas break in Dec about a few things.

I was furious!

At the time I was angry that he wasnt setting me any tasks. He would manage the other two but expect nothing from me.

He set one of the guys in the office the task of writing a script to pull in data from all the printers in the company and create alerts out of the data and display it in Icinga. At the time we found it hilarious as we we're all saying the office manager is going to hate all these alerts going in to her inbox and having to change the ink cartridges. Trololol!

HOWEVER, one day he turns to me and says, I want you to be on top of this.

I was furious. So you dont give me any projects to work on, and now your telling me you want me to monitor the printer alerts and go and change the ink cartridges in the company. FU!

This would also include traveling between sites. A 1.30hr journey to change an ink cartridge. Other people thought this was ludicrous when they realised what I was doing. For the last 20 years, everyone's been fine changing their own ink cartridges, now they're getting someone who is champing at the bit to do more interesting stuff in IT being tasked with changing ink cartridges.....

I brought this up with my manager and I told him, listen, this isn't right. There surely is something more important that needs doing than me going to change an ink cartridge. At the time he disagreed but this was the final straw that broke the camels back that got me thinking it's time to move on.

Like I said above we spoke before xmas and I said he needs to start setting me tasks appropriate for my level. He changed slightly, asking me to do some more interesting stuff. Stuff I can learn from.

There is a whole history of odd behaviour with my manager, but it hasn't taken him long to go back to old ways.

He set me a task. Which I have half done. However, we have bumped in to a infrastructure issue. I looked at it and looked at it, but couldn't solve it on my own.

The other two guys, he works with them to solve issues. Me, it doesn't seem he can bring him self to help me. He's gone round my back and given my project to my colleague.

He cant solve it either, meaning it's not me being inept. There's a big fundamental issue somewhere, which us as engineers (present company not included, obviously) need to solve. This is also about me learning from the experience.

But no, he's given the project to my colleague and is sitting down to discuss it with him. When it's my project!

The other guy has got a full plate as well of other stuff to do, whilst I literally have nothing. He took my project away from me.

Another thing that drives me crazy. I'm the main mobile guy at work. Yet, I have not had any input at all on the new MDM system they are putting together. This is another project I should be doing. And yet, nope. Not your project.

I've been at this company for 8 years now and this sort of thing started from day 1. He had an issue with me.

On the flip side the job is cushy. Come late, loads of girls, slow, we have busy times but generally it's fairly fine.

Oh and I'm being paid 50% less than everyone else in my department and our jobs are about 70% the same.

 

[opethdisciple]

well he apparently seems to think the other two are better than you

I'll repost what I posted in the thread you made 6 months agao:



seriously, if you've had issues with the place for a while now you want to get your CV out there with recruiters... when you previously posted the thread I was suggesting it as a way of keeping your options open... half a year on I'd suggest you just get out of there

I went for an interview in Nov for a Linux role (still 1/2nd line) paying a minimum of 8-15k more than what I currently earn. They also said they would put me on a Red Hat course.

However the feed back I got from them was they felt I already had the skills they where looking for, so didn't think they could offer me the right sort of progression.

Eh? If I've got what their looking for I'm surely the ideal candidate. Alas I feel I came on too strong for them possibly.

 

[opethdisciple]

Move into DevOps. I went from Infrastructure (both Windows / Linux) engineering, into virtualization (picking up storage and networking) and then into Architecture and Strategy. Got bored of that and went to Google for a few years (Big Data, distributed systems, low latency networks). Now back on the market and got 3 solid offers to head up / run a big data team (a financial and 2 data analytics firms). I kid you not the money to be had is ridiculous and you learn an awful lot with the right company.

When I asked one of the analytics what I could offer potential employee's if I started to build a team they just said whatever it takes. I want to poach a couple of guys I worked with at Google (senior DevOps with Hadoop, Spark, Scala and Python) and they didn't blink an eye when I said they may ask for £800+ p/d.

It's in huge demand right now.

Baby steps first. My big task is making the leap from technical support (1st&2nd line) to a junior Linux admin role, where the only real exp I'll have will be the LPIC1&2 exams.

Will a company take me on is the question and let me gain experience there?

I've been told by a recruiter that the answer is no. That you need exp to be considered and that book learning isn't sufficient.

But someone somewhere needs to give someone a job first for them to gain the exp.

From scanning the job market, I get the impression that companies would take someone on with a CCNA more than they would with just Linux certs.

This is just my observation from looking at the various job websites. Also I can see that some Linux roles mention that a CCNA would be advantageous. So that's something on the cards for me. But that will be for next year.

I'm hoping I can get a new job after doing the LPIC material and then do my CCNA at the same time.

 

[opethdisciple]

I will be setting up a home lab this month. VM's Centos and Ubunu server.

The reason why I like the LPIC material is it's vendor agnostic, and all the material covered is what the other guys in the office are doing.

It's more rounded than the Red Hat course. I understand that the Red Hat course is more difficult and higher in demand (and more expensive), but I still think it's worth perusing. (what do I know)

The last interview I went too, when I mentioned to them I was going to do the LPIC material, they where impressed. In fact the IT manager there was working through it himself.

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I will update you further on today's shenanigans. sufficed to say, I think it is time for me to leave.

 

[opethdisciple]

I don't even see the point in doing Linux certs personally. Knowledge and experience are more important.

Yes. But you got to get in first. That's what the certs are to help with.

 

[opethdisciple]

After today, I think I have decided it is time to move on.

Further up in the thread I wrote how I had spoken to my manager about wanting to get involved with doing more interesting things and that he had given me a project to work on, then basically started discussing my project with my colleague basically cutting me out.....

My colleague couldn't solve it so they had to open a case with Microsoft. Of course during the investigation the Microsoft engineer wanted to speak to the person who was leading the project before it reached that stage, so the phone was handed over to me. I mean how awkward does this situation have to be.

My manager tries to cut me out of project he gives me and then at the end of the day I'm the one who has to go through the steps with the Microsoft engineer as I'm the one who WAS leading the project. I was the one that new the technical stuff related to the case.

I was the one updating the ticket, and yet, my manager is till discussing it with my colleague.

I don't know what to say. I could say, I thought this was my project, but do I really want to deal with the awkward scenario and create a confrontation.

He doesn't like me for some reason, so is there any reason to create an issue or situation.

Also to highlight he's attitude towards me, he can help the other guys with support calls when their stuck. Me, he just gets annoyed and thinks I'm an idiot, when I cant solve something. Basically questioning my troubleshooting when in reality after about 1hr struggling with the issue himself, he must realise I wasn't being an idiot after all. But to get to that point takes a while as he has a different attitude towards me than the other guys.

Another issue today, highlighting the lack of communication. I had no idea they had implemented SSL on the connection to the IMAP server at work. Since day one (8 years ago) I was told to set up users emails as a unencrypted connection. So whilst trouble shooting some email issues I mention to him that he turned on SSL and he said "well yes, that's normal and has been for years, do we really want to be using unencrypted connections?" As if again I'm an idiot.

Thing is I set up hundreds of accounts a year. He hasn't set up an account for about 8+ years, and NEVER was I told that SSL was implemented on the IMAP server and I've been here for 8 years!!

I just felt like saying, listen, it would be nice to have been told these things. But again, do I want the aggro and a confrontation with my manager?

They will talk with them selves, but keep me out of the loop.

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Anyway, I've decided its time to just move on. I need a normal manager that operates in normal ways and has time to speak to me and help me forward my career.

I am looking for 1st line 2nd line roles with at least a mention of Linux as I want to carry on down this path. However how much of an issue/nonissue is finding a new job which isn't Linux based (more Microsoft) doing my Linux at home and then looking for a Linux admin role?

I'm thinking the fact I'm in a Linux role now would help me move in to a Linux admin role in the future, rather than leaving, going in to a non Linux role then trying to find a Linux role in the future once I've passed my exams.

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Oh want to hear something else that's bizarre? My manager cant even bring himself to make me tea! He will offer everyone else in the office, but not me.

When I make tea/coffee I always ask him.

 

[opethdisciple]

I've started looking. I've been here for 8 years so on paper it looks like I have 8 solid years of exp. But I haven't been exposed to what I should have in 8 years!!

It will never change and I have a very odd manager. It will be painful, but the best thing for my career is a move. I know that. Just now have to implement it.

 

[opethdisciple]

I've been making some applications today and sending my CV off to agents whose email address I find on the various job websites.

I see a slight issue. If I get a new job doing general technical support (Microsoft tech etc) but with a slight pay rise great. But my plan is to study this year and then get a Linux role.

If I manage to get a junior Linux admin role after my next move, the money will probably just be the same as it's a side great and a junior role. :/

Do you get what I mean? If I'm applying for a job similar to what I do know, but a little bit of a pay rise (up to 30k), but then in about a year I try to get a junior Linux role, that too will be around 30k.

Minor issue, but means for a little while I will be on the same money.

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I actually think it's quite difficult for me to do anything other than Linux and opensource. I have no experience with Exchange, we don't use Outlook. We only use Windows server as a host for the antivirus or the wsus server. We don't use Group Policies etc ect ect...

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What I can foresee happening is, there are lots of jobs for me to apply for. A handful of them mention Linux. What will happen is I will get a windows focused role and then be expected to train or gain qualifications in windows tech which isn't a bad thing, but my focus ideally is Linux. :/

Met with an old uni mate on Thu. He has just got a BIG job working for IBM. He told me at my stage of my career, I shouldn't be looking to specialise, but rather work with anything and everything so you understand the full spectrum of the IT industry.

 

[opethdisciple]

I'm 34.

 

[opethdisciple]

I know. I've been lazy. Last 5 years of my life, I was at the gym during the week and partying hard at the weekend. Career never seemed important to me back then.

But now that I've got all that partying out of my system, I realize it's time to get cracking as I'm now 34 and still in the same role, with no progress. The role it's self potentially is a good one. We have Linux and windows servers, Cisco equipment, IBM Z mainframe etc... but my manager has no interest in developing my skills.

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This is the year I do something about it. I've quit the gym which frees up my week days and I no longer go out as much as I was before.

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I'm gonna get my lab set up this month. Got my driving theory on Fri, so after that I'll be free for Linux!!

I've been thinking about what you said above regarding Red Hat. It makes sense what your saying to do a course that is in demand rather than the LPIC. However the LPIC to me looks very good! It is vendor neutral and covers the full spectrum of Linux up to intermediate level which is the level I am aiming for.

All the stuff covered, squid, nginx, apache, bind, iptables, Compiling a kernel etc etc etc are all the stuff I hear the guys in the office discussing and working on. So I can tell that from a syllabus perspective it's very good.

Here is the LPIC1 syllabus.

Here is the LPIC2 syllabus.

Even IBM have an LPIC section on there developer site.

So although no jobs actually say, "needs to be LPIC certified" I think people that know something about Linux, would be able to tell that this person knows something if they gain the certification.

What I don't like about it, is there is no official study material, other than one book by Sybex and the internet. Also the CBT nuggest etc is also quite sparse especially for the LPIC2 material.

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Now on to Red Hat. I'm not going to discredit it. I choose the LPIC for the reasons I mentioned above and price as well as relative difficulty.

I hear the Red Hat exam is tough as old boots and you have to be an actual Linux admin in your day job to stand a chance of passing. This is not what I am. This is what I aim for, so is the Red Hat still the course I should pursue?

I'm talking about the Red Hat Certified Systems Administrator course.

Do you know if Red Hat actually provide official study material like Cisco do?
Because that would be a massive plus. The LPIC doesn't have any official study material.

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On the topic of the CCNA. I get what you mean regarding the material. But, there are Linux roles out there, even junior ones that mention CCNA would be a plus. So depending on what happens over the next year or two I don't think it's a bad thing for me to do.

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Can the RHSCA be done in a year?

 

[opethdisciple]

Note that the IBM pages refer to the LPIC exams as of April 2009. Given how long ago that is it may impact on whether they cover the current material.

I've nothing against LPIC, work had us do LPIC 1 about 10 years ago, but be wary of going above LPIC 1 at first as you might seem to be over qualified for the type of junior role you want.

Note a quick glance at their page seems to indicate you can leverage it into a SuSE certification still too.



Red Hat do have official study material .... It is called their training courses and they are expensive so you won't be doing those. The book RHCSA & RHCE Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7: Training and Exam Preperation Guide (EX200 and EX300) Third Edition is pretty good at covering the content and there are some worked examples on the Certdepot website of the sort of content. Note that Red Hat have a confidentiality clause which means that if they find you talking about the actual exam content then they can cancel your qualification (because they don't want people saying just study x, y and z and you can pass ... They want people to understand the content so the qualification means more)

Remember that it would also be applicable to systems running CentOS and Oracle Linux as well as RHEL. Oracle Linux being an interesting one given its licensing costs vs RHEL.

CCNA would be a nice to have rather than a need to have ... Personally I don't know any Linux/Unix guys who have it but we are a large company and have a separate networks department to most don't have to touch network hardware outside the labs and the general network training for Linux/Unix covers what they need.

If you put the work in then it should be possible to do RHCSA, or LPIC 1, or both, in a year .... But you would have to make sure you really understood it and you would be left in qualified vs experience conundrum.

Just as an example of a Linux role requiring a CCNA, this sort of role would be a dream job for me.

 

[opethdisciple]

I've got an interview set for Fri. It's a MS centric role, but it does look good. Lots of skills and systems I don't have (ESXi, VMWare, Exchange, etc), but they are interested in me as I have Linux skills they dont have so it's win win.

Looks a lot more corporate than I'm used to, but also looks fun. I get the impression they are the type of company very geared towards training their staff amd certifying them. May or may not impact my plans to study linux this year.

IF I get this role, it would probably mean I do an MCSE (they'd pay) and then an CCNA rather than the LPIC and the CCNA.

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It will be painful and sad to say good bye to a company I have been working for, for the past 8.2 years. But they are not expanding my career and they are under paying me.

 

[opethdisciple]

So after my interview yesterday with an IT solutions company 100% geared towards MS, they said I would have to do the MCSE.

I looked at the content. It does look good. And probably is slightly higher level than the LPIC 1+2 content. What I mean by this is, the MCSE is up to design and Data centre level.

The LPIC 1 and 2, is up to Linux admin level. This would include infrastructure upgrades etc but I get the impression its of a slightly lesser level to the MCSE.

Any thoughts?

Both are good. Both in demand.

But upon reflection, I still think Linux is where I want to go. It just seems more interesting that MS.

Theres a lot more interesting things happening in the world regarding Linux than MS.