Trying to break in to IT infrastructure field

Well I have a break through.

I applied over the weekend to a role that was a split between technical support and Linux server administration.

I interviewed for it today and the agent called me after to say that I should expect them to make me an offer on Thu.

Before I went for the interview they where my third choice. As I don't want to do technical support anymore.

However once I arrived I was quite blown away. It was like I had stepped in to a miniaturized Google. They had ping pong tables everywhere, a huge snazzy kitchen area everyone was chilled and relaxed and it had a laid back vibe.

The interview it's self was down to earth and not pretentious or formal at all.

So company/location/vibe huge WOW.

The role it's self.... Well the first 3-4 months I will be doing Windows based projects. At the moment they out source their IT. They want someone to come in and sort them out basically.

Set up an WSUS server, Netboot/PXE environment, sort out the wifi, inventory the IT systems and some sort of standardisation going as well as provide day to day IT support for about 70 odd people.

So basically I will be the one researching solutions, proposing them and then implementing them. Currently my manager just does everything himself and only uses me to do the crap he cant be bothered to do.

After that period and things start to calm down, I will start training on the Linux sys admin side. They currently only have one guy who is the sys admin. And ideally they need someone to be able to give him a hand.

Pay would be about 3-5k more than what I currently earn.

So the job not strictly what I was looking for does seem to be a good one.

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On the flip side, my friend who works as a Linux DevOps engineer is trying to get me through the back door with his firm. They are looking to recruit for a junior position so he has put my CV forward which they have said fine will take a look at him.

The problem is the firm he works for can take a while (1-2 months) to actually start the interview process so I'm not sure what to do.

This role would probably have the biggest benefit on my career. And would eventually lead to the largest salaries. Where as the environment may not be as fun as they one I interviewed for today.

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The firm I interviewed with today, barring an epic change of heart, will most likely make me an offer tomorrow.

Only major fear I have with this job, is if they bring me in starting off doing the tech support and then in a few months bring in another guy to be the new server side admin.

The whole point of me leaving my current role is to do more server side stuff myself.

However the IT manager dude I spoke to said they would put me on a Linux course, so I guess if they are willing to invest cold cash in to training me they wont be looking to bring someone else in.
 
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FishThrower said:
Sounds like a good problem you have...

devops is just a buzz word, I will be surprised if it's not called something else in 5 years...

The interview you had sounds very promising.... 3rd line support is different to 2nd line as you will end up doing more project work and general BAU support will be much less than 2nd line user support. Working for a small company allows you to have much more exposure to different technologies so you will learn much more. The only negative thing I can think of is that windows and Linux support are two totally different career paths. You may fall into the " jack of all trades, master of none" category.

Take the job ( if offered ) and see what your mate comes back with about the devops junior role, that might not even materialise yet, so don't reject the offer based on hope and a prediction.

Your current company sounds crap ( no offence) , this sounds like a good opportunity to leave a poisoned environment. How old are you btw ?
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34. 35 in Nov.

I am still going to carry on with my Linux home study. I started doing the LPIC material.

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Not sure what to do to be honest. I want to move towards a Linux server admin role. Yes I could start with this firm and maybe move on again in a year or so, but that just seems like a waste of a year.

On the flip side, this role could end up being good and I could end up learning a lot about Linux. It's one of those things I wont know until I start.

I have another interview next week on Tuesday which is a purely Linux server side role. But it's based at least 1.20hr (maybe longer) from my house each way.

The role I interviewed for today is about 40mins away.

The issue is the agents are the pushy ones. They want an answer asap so they can earn their commission and move on to the next target.

What are the rules regarding accepting a job, interviewing for another role then realising that one is better and going with them?
 
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I have another meeting scheduled for 1pm where I believe they will talk to me a bit more and then possibly make me an offer.

I have two choices accept out right and negotiate pay.

Or say can you give me a few days to think about it. Basically stalling at least until Tue so I can have a look at this other job which is quite far from me.

I feel dishonest accepting a job I know I plan to leave as soon as what I want gives me the opportunity.

In truth, I am finished with technical support but this role will start off as that for at least 3 months. I will however be a one man band implementing solutions rather than just doing the donkey work.

So there will be some learning taking place.

But it's not my ideal choice despite the location/vibe and culture being good.

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The more I mull it over in my head the more I know deep down I don't want this role. I also feel dishonest about taking it, when I know that in 2 months ish I will be off.

There were two alarm bells that went off as well when I was talking to them.

1. They used the word, 'dump' the technical support on me...
2. I got the impression they want to bring someone up to speed so that I can be the one on call rather than the other Linux guy....

Neither of which is particularly appealing.


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My fault in the first place for applying for a role that had a technical support element to it in the first place.

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Plus not happy about the strong arm tactics the agents are employing.

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It would be almost be easier if they don't offer me the job. I know there's one other candidate.
 
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Bit of an impasse at the moment.

Spoke with new firm, but they wont make me an offer before my current firm confirm what my notice is.

Current company, wont confirm what my notice is until I have a firm offer.

Current firm have confirmed that legally 8 weeks notice but it is negotiable. I also have two weeks in holiday to take.

But someone has to play their hand or I am going to lose this job.
 
I'm right to look for a new job.

It's not just a matter of escaping. I'll learn from the experience. It's a life lesson as much as a professional one.

Also I will be regarded as a young professional in my field at the new place. Where as here I am just a donkey for donkey work.

Clean slate.

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Also from my managers reaction when I told him I wanted to know my notice period it showed I'm doing the right thing.

His first reaction was 'how much are they offering you'? As if money can buy me out.

I then said, it's not about money it's about my growth and learning. I said to him 'I'm just a shield for the other two' and he just smiled and found it funny.

So that showed me that this job isn't going anywhere and he has zero interest in taking my career forward.

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They will suffer with out me. As it sounds like they will get a very junior person in and the other two are going to have to step up to the plate again as Im not there to cover them any more.

Which begs the question, if their willing to step up when the new guy comes in, then why cant the department change slightly to start introducing me to the next level stuff, such as vmaware, server configuration etc etc ect....

I'll tell you why, they are happy with the status quo as it suits them. The only weapon I've got, is to leave.


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It's not done and dusted yet tho. Still waiting to hear form them regrading offer, then I go and find out my notice.

It shouldn't be any more than 6 weeks. They indicated they where fine with 5.... I just hope they are fine with 6. As it could be that long.

I can't lose this job over 1 week! :eek:
 
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drakioned said:
Eh? Linux is not in any way a small field...

EDIT:

Just as a quick check:
Putting Windows as a key word into Jobserve for IT: 1,838 jobs
Putting Linux as a key word into Jobserve for IT: 1,353 jobs
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+1. I didn't want to comment. But it's true. On average Linux pays more than Windows roles and even the Cisco ones.

It generally overpays, as there is more need for it than there are candidates.

Also some say that more and more companies are going to go open source so definitely a good skill to have.
 
oldbag said:
I don't understand people who stay in a job year after year, but spend year after year moaning about how much the job sucks and they hate it. Either you're incompetent and unemployable elsewhere, or you just like to moan.

Why stay in a company that is obviously taking the proverbial out of you and risk your career by putting up with it? Anyone else would have left years ago.

You should be focusing your energies on either getting this job, or getting another, not on your current company.
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It's not that easy tho is it. Your still are getting paid and you also want to leave on good terms. Unless if you really don't give a 'beep' anymore and don't care if you leave on bad terms etc...
 
Question regarding notice period. So far we've just been considering this from my angle.

What about from the other perspective. If a company makes me an offer that I accept does that mean it is illegal for them to find another candidate during my notice period whom they prefer more than me?

I mean we've established it's not illegal for me to accept an offer and still continue interviewing and possibly accept another role.

So how does it work the other way round?
 
The crap my manager says sometimes.

Office manager comes in to our office on Fri, and says 'It's very quite in here' Manager replies 'That's the sound of fear'.

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Oh and when I told him on Thu I needed to organise a meeting, he said 'Do we?' in a very condescending way. As if to say "what on earth do you have to say to me?"
 
I have accepted a role and handed in my notice yesterday.

Not exactly what I was looking for, but the company vibe and location are great.

It will initially be technical support at first transitioning towards more Linux Admin as time goes by.

Everything is sorted minus one tiny detail. The Agent has told the new company I will be available 1 week earlier than my company actually confirmed would be my last day.

Hopefully wont make a big difference.
 
For anyone else following this thread and thinking about the next steps, I have started to read up on the LPIC material with the aim of sitting the exams.

I have to say I am enjoying it!

The Red Hat courses may be better for employability, but LPIC is still very good! It's vendor neutral and theres lots more to Linux than just Red Hat.

My aims are to do the LPIC 1 and 2 and then do the LPIC-3 304: Virtualization & High Availability course.

That would be an amazing grounding in where I want to go which is in to a Linux Devops role.

At the same time as this, I have got my self a new job where I will be training towards being a Linux Admin. The new company run a Citrix Xen platform so I guess that is what I will be getting familiar with at first.

I'm 35 this year. My plan is to go like the clappers from now until 40 to try and get as far as I can in the industry.

The guy I sit next too at work (very lazy individual) at present has no University schooling but is earning twice my current wage. I need to fix that!
 
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elrasho said:
Is this a London thing because I've never heard of two people doing similar roles having such a gap in salary.

Also are you actually getting experience in work using your LPIC skills? If not I can't see how having these qualifications with no actual experience using the skills will help you get ahead.
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Yes and no.

Current role is Linux based I.e the command line. But manager never gave me any projects etc to further my knowledge. Just the basics. All the project work he gave else where and I was just an IT 'cleaner'.

New job is also Linux based and I will be helping out the current Linux Admin in a Citrix Xen environment. Of which I have very little knowledge, but they are fine with that.

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You opened up a wound so here goes.

/rant

To be fair, I've been unhappy in this role for the past 5 years. However it has got worse over the last 18 months since my manager and my colleague I mentioned above (no degree) started going out drinking.

I started to feel like they where shoving on to me more and more of the rubbish tasks and leaving only the fun and interesting stuff for them to do. One of my work collogues is mostly absent. The other is lazy and has threatened to quit twice which is why my manager lets him get away with things.

One of my colleagues let the cat out of the back in an indirect way, that yes, they basically wanted to make my role more and more basic so that him and the other guy could do more and more of the higher level stuff.

But this is totally unfair, for someone who has been in the job for 8.5 years and is ready himself to start moving forward and learning stuff.

The problem is the nature of the company. There will always be a load of crap to do. So they schemed to not do it them selves, and thus shovelling it all on to me.

This had a double negative effect.

1. I would come in to work and have 10 emails in the morning from people that have learnt through conditioning not to email the other guys and email me directly as they dont get anything done. All these emails are boring tasks that they want done NOW.

The other two come and go as they please. Either absent or turn up what ever time they want. Me on the other hand has HR and sales execs chasing me around for stuff, and yet, more and more crap is being piled on to my plate whilst the other ones do as they please working on interesting project work.

2. The partitioning of tasks also has an effect on pay. As they are doing the more '3rd' line tasks they asked for 3rd line pay! As I am doing just the crap in the office no one wants, so my wage reflects this.

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Theres more but I'm not going to go on. I just got fed up with the laziness of my colleagues and the attitude from my manager. If I say something the automatic response is disdain and brushing it off. If either of the other two say the same thing, he talks about it with them, considers it and value their opinion.

Me leaving has actually further played in to their hands as they can reshape my job role, make it the super basic role they wanted and thus piling more of the crap on to the new guy allowing them to live the life of Riley.

In my new role, my opinion is going to be valued. It's one of the primary reasons I'm being hired. Here they see me as the same person who started 8.5 years ago. In the new role I'm going to be seen as someone with 8.5 years of experience.

My manager is being played for a fool tho. What kind of messed up scenario is this:

The guy he goes drinking with and is in effect scheming, is the same guy that has threatened to quite twice.

His logic is, if they ask him to do anything he doesn't want to do, he will quit. For some reason my manager is so scared of losing him he is bending over backwards to accommodate what ever he wants. He has basically told me, he know how to 'handle' him and is basically playing him for more and more money.

Hence the reason why more crap is on my plate, he does the interesting stuff and earns about 20k more than me.

The last 5 ish weeks he has been going out and taking drugs. Turns up anywhere from 11-1pm in the office. Has little power naps when he is here. Manager had a word with him and basically said if this carries on he would have a chat with HR. He's response? 'If you do say anything to HR, I will just quit'. So that's that. End of story and carry on as you are.



/rantover
 
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elrasho said:
Good for you mate. My problem is that we don't currently use Linux and it's something I'm interested in getting into. Maybe I'll start doing the LPIC or RHCSA anyway.
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The RHCSA is more difficult and is hands on. It is also Red Hat only.

Highly valued in the market. But uber tough.

The LPIC is not as difficult and not a hands on exam. However it's not easy. The questions are asked in a way that really you should have had hands on time with the subject matter to really get through the exam.

It's also vendor agnostic. You will learn Debian and Redhat and all the flavours in between.

The reason why I chose it is because when I looked through the curriculum for the LPIC2, the subject matter is all the stuff the boys in the office are doing, so I know it's worth it's salt as I have experience to know this is all relevant.
 
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Now that I'm in my notice period and only 10 days to go, my manager is giving the least lazy of the two work colleagues my tasks to do.

Q1. Why not have shared this out earlier and allowed me to do some project work myself rather than just giving them all the interesting stuff and me all the rubbish. (I'll tell you why because they would screw that's why!!)

Q2. Why the 20k wage difference if he is now going to do my tasks.... Yes he has more skills than me, but wage should be closer. Main reason for skills difference is, this was my first role and I haven't been given stuff to learn from.

Shakes head.... Cant wait to get out of here.

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Over the years it's literally been I come in to work, my manager has nothing to say to me he gives me nothing to do. Whilst the other guys have tons of project work to be getting on with.

He's been very odd with me since day 1. All of eight and a half years ago.

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Blimey!!

Started my new job today. This one compared to my old one is quite different.

In my old one, I was literally just technical support. My tasks where so low level I cant believe I stuck it out for 8 years!! :rolleyes:

The new one is everything I could have wanted. I just hope it's not over my head.

My job title is Systems Engineer. My role is basically to take the outsourced IT support inhouse and implement solutions for them. WSUS, Antivirus, Netboot, Asset Management solution and Wireless. At the same time I will be shadowing and assisting the current Linux Admin on their cloud platform.

They have basically told me that ideally they want me doing more of the Linux stuff than the IT support stuff. According to the guy I spoke to today who is the outsourced admin, it's 2-3 support tickets a week.

So I should have plenty of time to deal with the Linux stuff.

On the Linux front, it's quite a leap for me. :eek:

Most of the tech they use I have zero experience with. Memcache, Elastic Search, Nginx, Apache, F5 load balancers etc..... They know I have no experience with this stuff so hopefully they will understand when it will be quite a big learning curve.

However if I make it through my probation, I think I may have just cracked what I set out to do when I first created this thread.

If I can stick this job out for at least 2 years and get some solid experience under my belt, I will be in a great position to command more money and possibly move on if I feel I need to.

They did say they will give me training and possibly put me on a course as well.

So much work to do!!
 
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So an interesting question.

At the moment my job in this new company is to bring a bit of standardisation, automation, control and security to the network.

From an internal standpoint they are a mess. It's a jungle and they have no set procedures for anything.

I've got a lot of things to get sorted. Asset Management system, WSUS, WDS, Automated software update mechanism.

This is just for the UK office. They told me on Thu, that what I do in the UK office will be pitched to the senior partners as a template to be rolled out to the French, German and US offices!! :eek:

I'm only one guy! I didn't know the job was this big.

At the moment I don't have a job title. They indicated they would be fine with IT Manager.... but ultimately my aim is to assist the Linux Admin they have so that I can then move on in to a purely Linux infrastructure role in the future.

This will happen once I've got the above sorted.

Whats a better job title to have on a CV. IT Manager or Systems Engineer? Considering I see my self moving in to a Linux role in the future. Or at least that's the plan at this point in time.

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They also asked me if I would like to do the pitch! :eek:

I'm a techy!! I'm rubbish at public speaking!! They said they'd coach me and tell me what to say.... I'm honoured but I've only been at the company two weeks. Too soon!
 
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