Uber to lose licence to operate in London

Well of course a rating can go up and down, mini cab firms don't even have a ratings system. Your point was re: drivers supposedly ripping people off by extending trips - if they did that it would be blatantly obvious in the app and not just affect ratings but also generate reports of the fraud and requests for a refund!
ok customer probably will get a refund, we are not talking about whether customer gets a refund or not , so for now lets make a change, why dont you prove or show evidence how Uber deals with such drivers ?

Also for your information i did state most offices do have apps, web bookings and so on and yes we do have driver ratings and feedbacks as well as our monthly driver of the month bonus pays so dont just say we dont even have driver ratings.... lol....

As i have stated many times and yet you are still looking down on minicab offices instead of looking up some info over the web.

Here i ll show you one of the most common used system called Autocab Ghost and below link is for their app...
https://www.autocab.com/our-solutions/passenger-app/
 
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Pretty sure most minicab operators dont have apps for customers.
Well thats debatable, searching online and or google play store shows a lot of hits as the app is same and £2 per week per vehicle to use all of those softwares and features is a no brainer and thats just for one dispatching software company and there are many other companies who offer pretty much similar stuff. Point was when ever "dowie" makes a comment he is treating minicab offices to those who does illegal touting, doggy corner shops and so on....

Infact Uber is just another PHV minicab company and they had the same operator licence as ours, my whole point was any company knowingly allowing such practices to continue, deserves to lose their licence. Their system is not fool proof and drivers are taking advantage of this, that is what i was trying to point out mainly.
 
ok customer probably will get a refund, we are not talking about whether customer gets a refund or not , so for now lets make a change, why dont you prove or show evidence how Uber deals with such drivers ?

I've already shown that uber fires drivers with low ratings


Also for your information i did state most offices do have apps, web bookings and so on and yes we do have driver ratings and feedbacks as well as our monthly driver of the month bonus pays so dont just say we dont even have driver ratings.... lol....

As i have stated many times and yet you are still looking down on minicab offices instead of looking up some info over the web.

Here i ll show you one of the most common used system called Autocab Ghost and below link is for their app...
https://www.autocab.com/our-solutions/passenger-app/

I'm not looking down on minicabs I'm just highlighting that minicabs can have a bunch of flaws too leading to customers getting ripped off and that your criticism of uber is somewhat misplaced - you seem to expect your uber allegations to simply be accepted yet the point is mini cab firms and drivers can easily be dodgy too

Point was when ever "dowie" makes a comment he is treating minicab offices to those who does illegal touting, doggy corner shops and so on....

point is that the mini cab industry is full of dodgy corner shops etc... so as much as you can make these allegations about uber ripping people off there are plenty of mini cab firms out there with drivers or offices handling cash where it is far far easier to rip people off than with uber

I'm sure if ti was just Addison Lee and similar then we'd not be having this conversation, but it isn't, there are plenty of local mini cab firms in London and frankly if Addisson Lee, uber and a few others with apps can put them out of business then great - so long as there is competition then I'd be quite happy for the inefficient firms to go bust
 
I've already shown that uber fires drivers with low ratings
You have shown a graph which they would appearently do and which goes up n down and doesnt mean offending driver gets kicked out straight away.... I have shown you a screenshot of a driver which had lower ratings then your chart and still working and had 3 months to improve his negative ratings which means drivers do get away with stuff as long as they improve their ratings....

I'm not looking down on minicabs I'm just highlighting that minicabs can have a bunch of flaws too leading to customers getting ripped off and that your criticism of uber is somewhat misplaced - you seem to expect your uber allegations to simply be accepted yet the point is mini cab firms and drivers can easily be dodgy too
Everytime you mention minicab firms you are given me examples of a bloke with a clipboard, doggy corner offices despite me telling you otherwise there are good companies out there look into it.... and no i am not expecting my point to be accepted as i was merely sharing what i know.....

point is that the mini cab industry is full of dodgy corner shops etc... so as much as you can make these allegations about uber ripping people off there are plenty of mini cab firms out there with drivers or offices handling cash where it is far far easier to rip people off than with uber
That is right that is why i explained about drivers seperately in my original reply and question why such drivers can still work at Uber, infact they are most probably the same drivers who worked in your example offices....

I'm sure if ti was just Addison Lee and similar then we'd not be having this conversation, but it isn't, there are plenty of local mini cab firms in London and frankly if Addisson Lee, uber and a few others with apps can put them out of business then great - so long as there is competition then I'd be quite happy for the inefficient firms to go bust
Oh no trust me if the company in question was Addison Lee i would have talked about them too, charging customers £120 for Stansted airport where most offices used to charge for £38 from same location, same quality car and the service or how they are charging account customers extra and showing journey total fare much lower to drivers and taking a cut from that too.

Uber, Addison Lee, our company and the rest they are all PHV operators using the same licence.... , my whole point was any company knowingly allowing such practices to continue, deserves to lose their licence. Their system is not fool proof and drivers are taking advantage of this, that is what i was trying to point out mainly. Regardless i am done replying to you so you do what ever you want to be honest.....
 
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Everytime you mention minicab firms you are given me examples of a bloke with a clipboard, doggy corner offices despite me telling you otherwise there are good companies out there look into it.... and no i am not expecting my point to be accepted as i was merely sharing what i know.....

but I've not disputed that good firms can exist, I'm not sure why there is a need to go round in circles on this - there can exist both dodgy uber drivers and dodgy mini cab firms, that is the point... what I would be skeptical about is how long dodgy uber drivers can persist for (it seems that low ratings can have 3 months to be turned around but I'm not so sure about drivers who've defrauded customers in the ways you've suggested). Nor is it clear what % of uber drivers at any point are dodgy relative to all the various dodgy minicab firms out there.

Uber, Addison Lee, our company and the rest they are all PHV operators using the same licence.... , my whole point was any company knowingly allowing such practices to continue, deserves to lose their licence. Their system is not fool proof and drivers are taking advantage of this, that is what i was trying to point out mainly. Regardless i am done replying to you so you do what ever you want to be honest.....

your whole point wasn't just that though, you highlighted some allegations about how uber drivers supposedly behave that are both unrealistic to be systematic or persistent given how the app works and are nothing to do with the reasons for uber's current licensing trouble, I've then replied pointing out that plenty of mini cab firms/drivers have the scope to get away with more and we've gone in circles a bit...

I agree that if there are genuine issue and uber doesn't address them then they don't deserve to have a license, I suspect though that they'll be allowed to address any genuine issue and anything else can be appealed - I'd be very surprised if this was the end of uber in London.
 
I don't live in London but every taxi I've had has had a meter?


this basicaly whst the entire issue comes down to.


in london if you want a meter attached to your taxi you must be a black cab ie they have a monopoly on pay as you go transport.


rest of the country this isn't the case anyone can have a meter. but in london if you don't you have to offer a fixed price.

but the rules are about the meter being attached to the vehicle, so all well and good in the old days where it has to be connected to an odometer/speedometer eyc.

but now we have gps and can accurately track a vehicle woth no interaction with it.


so uber now has a "meter" but not physically connected to the car so uber can act like a black cab without being one.

best of both of phc and stop and hail.


this ****** off black cabs who are now faced with a threat to thier monopoly on meters in london.

that's what it comes down to and is why it's not s problem outside of London and everyone outside London doesnt get what the problem is because meters in mini cabs are as you said in pretty much every one outside london
 
Black cabs issue could be one of the reasons but i dont think thats the only issue.

Following are TFL's reasons;

"TfL said Uber's "approach and conduct demonstrate a lack of corporate responsibility in relation to a number of issues which have potential public safety and security implications".

These issues include:

  • Uber's approach to reporting serious criminal offences.
  • Its approach to how medical certificates are obtained.
  • Its approach to how enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) checks are obtained.
  • Its approach to explaining the use of Greyball in London - software that could be used to block regulatory bodies from gaining full access to the app and prevent officials from undertaking regulatory or law enforcement duties. "
I ll share my thoughts....

Uber's approach to reporting serious criminal offences.
I ve tried to explain how drivers are in my original reply, uneducated, perverts and so on..... but this!!!!
http://www.phtm.co.uk/news/795/phtm-news/police-slam-uber-over-sex-attack-drivers
In at least one of the sex cases, Uber continued to employ the driver, who went on to commit a more serious sex attack against a second woman passenger.

Billany said: “Had Uber notified police after the first offence, it would be right to assume the second would have been prevented.”
Although i wasn't aware of this but considering they continued to employ this driver, this just shows those driver ratings are simply for show purposes and cannot stop or prevent dodgy drivers working.... If they dont even report these and don't even kick this driver out i won't even be suprised what else they are allowing them to do....

Its approach to how medical certificates are obtained.

This is a funny one,Medical certificates are obtained by drivers and sent of during when drivers apply for PCO Licence, its not something Operator related document, nor we need to check them or keep them in our office. Regardless all of our drivers that works in our office gets their certificates from their own doctors who know them very well medically. Lets dig more.... Any fit driver will get their certificate from their own doctors commonsense, any unfit driver will get their certificate from a number of doctors which do not know these drivers health records.... A quick money ( £50 to £100 ) fixes this issue, in 5 minutes you can have your certificate without any checkups.... After all how can any doctor issue a fit for work certificate without doing comprehensive health check up for that amount.... What happens with this is if you input all the data in to bar chart such doctors stand out then its not difficult for PCO to realise what these doctors are doing, so they most probably warn them so number of doctors producing these certificates probably reduced to almost nil, at the end of the day they are running normal general practice and wouldnt want to loose their licence...

This brings us to London Doctors Clinic which formed in late 2013 and 2014 to 2015 had only £3k in cash, in late 2016 they had £700k in cash and now they have about 30 doctors, 9 branches around central london..... Thats quite an achivement in such a short time for general practice... I mean my gp has 4 or 5 doctors for past 25 years : )

https://www.londondoctorsclinic.co.uk/services/work-medicals/uber-drivers-medical

One of their services which is no more, screenshot below. This medical practice was either giving away illegal fit for work certificates as there is no way they can do full health checkups for the amount they normaly charge, if it wasnt illegal and it was legal why suspend the service at all considering its a normal fit for work check up, or its possible this company was setup by Uber itself to pass medical certificates issue. Who knows, just a thought. Otherwise i cant see how TFL can hold them responsible for medical certificates which is not Ubers or any Private Hire Operators responsibility to obtain, its drivers responsibility to obtain this from their own gp and submit it to TFL when applying for their PCO Licence...

doctor.jpg



Its approach to how enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) checks are obtained.

For information, In past and currently this is what most of our drivers use during their application for dbs or crb checks.
https://gbg.onlinedisclosures.co.uk/Authentication/Login?ReturnUrl=/Application/CreateApplication%
Drivers had to wait for 1 week to 6 weeks as after initial database checks DBS application is usualy sent off to Police for further checks.

So i am not so sure how this is related to Uber considering this is again one of those stages required during driver application for PCO Licence by driver themself.
Although reading about it Uber using Onfido or Checkr, Onfido being a startup company recently and funded by few other companies. There is a case in 2013 in US where driver ran over and killed six-year old Sofia Liu in San Francisco, severely injuring her mother and brother in the same incident. Uber says in a written statement that all drivers had undergone a "stringent" background check however that same driver had been arrested in Florida in 2004 on a reckless driving charge and California law prohibited private background check services like Uber's so i guess Uber failed on that case. Cant be bothered to dig more into this tough....

Its approach to explaining the use of Greyball in London

I mean simple search for Greyball software shows lot of stuff so i wont go into detail here, what i am wondering is the need for such software.....Basically manipulating data, perhaps they are running taxi services in areas they are not supposed to...
Considering they are using the same software in other countries and different countries have different rules for licencing, this might allow them to display what the governing body needs to see while hiding stuff they shouldnt see and if they are using it in other countries and surely i dont see any reason why they wouldnt try that here ....

--------------

My thoughts,
I love minicab industry and have being working for past 14 years, when you look at it from outside view it looks like an easy job, ask the customer where they are, where they are travelling to and other journey requirements and done. But in reality its not simple as that, past 14 years , my battles with dodgy drivers and dodgy offices was endless and it still continues, but dealing with drivers is by all means is not an easy task nevermind 40,000 of them.

Drivers who sexually, pyshically or verbally assault customers, drivers photoshopping their insurance papers, drivers sharing their accounts with other unlicenced people and letting them use their vehicles, overcharging customers, drivers who can't speak basic English and all the lies and trickerys they do to earn just that little bit of extra cash. Dealing with all of these with 40,000 drivers is just not possible considering they dont even see them after their initial interview. Even if 1% of these drivers do above stuff that is still 400 drivers minimum but i still believe that percentage could be higher.

Guardian video on document issue, although its back in 2015 for some reason i still believe this is true to this date unless Uber do their own insurance cover....Even the way that director speaks is such let down and doesnt sound too convincing and also instead of thanking that driver who helped Guardian, they removed him from Uber and reported him to Police.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...london-black-cab-drivers-claims-flawed-checks

Account sharing:

accountsharing.jpg



One thing i wished and tried my best is to work with other reputable companies to prevent such drivers working in their fleet and made them aware just to provide better service to customers without dealing or wasting time with such drivers. For this reason alone i wish Uber succeeds but looking at their management alone which they even tried to cover up sexual assault on one of their engineers and threaten them with termination and all the shady stuff they have done just speaks for itself how this company is run, hell even their CEO resigned recently but still a board member. Company run by cowboys nothing else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uber_(company)#Legal_status_by_country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uber_(company)#Criticism

There are also other TFL issues and rules which they have forced upon PHV operators that i am not sure how they will force on Uber as Uber is also a PHV Operator. Our office received a warning from TFL to provide parking space for our drivers while they are waiting for jobs in non busy periods as we had 600 drivers and appearantly they cant park on side of the road and occupy public road space. We didnt object and arranged places around London such as petrol stations, car wash companies, car parks, Mc Donalds and such which we had to pay them of course. Point is what ever TFL allows Uber to get away with will bite them back I mean i would like TFL or Uber to provide information where Uber's 40k drivers are waiting in non busy periods...

If Uber was truly run by proper good management and did not allow dodgy stuff to continue under their brand by all means i cant see anyone objecting to them other then Black cabs.... Just my thoughts.....

Just a side note before anyone asks, of course there are great drivers in any company including Uber but important matter is whether to allow dodgy stuff to continue in your company knowing how they are and let them roam free in public transport....
 
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Well worth a read....

I copied and pasted this from the Licenced Taxi Drivers Forum.
Read it, ignore it, believe it, don't believe it, pour scorn on it, treat it how you wish,
but it was penned by someone who knows what he's talking about.
When you've read it, you may still be convinced that the author, and the Black Cab
drivers he talks about, are dinosaurs, and their time has come and gone, but at least
you will have read a cogent argument about what's happening vis-a-vis Uber, and
the London licenced trade.




Monday, 25 September 2017

At Risk Of Repeating Myself...
I wrote something along these lines a couple of years back and now here I am again with a distinct sense of deja vu, albeit under slightly different circumstances.
Last week Transport For London (TFL) announced it would deny the renewal of Ubers licence to continue its minicab operation in London from the end of September, on various fit and proper operator grounds. Of course Uber will attempt to overturn this via appeal but for now it's caused all manner of consternation among the Uberati in the city and beyond.

I'm not here to argue with those people, after all, as a Licensed London Taxi driver (aka 'black cab driver' when it comes to this debate) I'd be dismissed as biased anyway. Which I am obviously, however, I have bitten my lip and kept well out of any spats on social media, where the battle of opinion on the matter seems to be taking place, in the main.

However, as usual in such instances, I see SO MANY ill-informed and plain inaccurate comments being made about my industry all over the place that I just have to put some facts straight or at the very least, inform people of a few things to at least educate them to some extent. I don't expect for a minute it will change their outlook on the situation but it will make me feel better anyway and at least every time I see the uneducated comment I can direct them to this.
So, I'm addressing the main points that it seems people have the most to shout about in this debate and hopefully this helps to put some context out there. This isn't biased ranting, anecdotal opinion or political spin, it's just plain facts, so please sit comfortably and digest.



1. "The Knowledge is outdated and isn't required now we have Satnav"


'The Knowledge', for those unfamiliar with the term, in a nutshell, is the qualification process that London cabbies embark on to attain their green badge (license). It involves learning all the streets and points of interest (POI) in London in order to pass a series of rigorous examinations to test your knowledge of these roads and points as well as your mental route planning ability around the city. It can take anywhere between 3-5 years to pass, depending on how well you perform in the regular exams.
Now, I get it, Satnav has come a long way and, yes, it can get you from A to B in the majority of cases. It won't always take you the best way, particularly in Londons congested labyrinthine road network and it doesn't have the intuition that a human brain with local knowledge has, but I accept for many situations it is fine. Having said that, it's not ideal having what is supposed to be a professional driver solely reliant on following a satnav, with all the distractions that entails.
However, the Knowledge is not just a test of your road, routing and POI knowledge, it is also a massive test of character. Who would invest so much time, effort and sacrifice to qualify as a professional in their field, only to throw away that livelihood at the drop of a hat via criminal activity. It's as good as a CRB check in my opinion. It sorts the wheat from the chaff, as it were. It verifies the dedication of a person and instils a sense of pride and respect in that person for their trade. What's wrong with that? Is having well-qualified individuals who clearly care passionately about a trade a bad thing? Don't we want people to strive to be the best they can be in their chosen profession? I don't see a clamour for expensive lawyers, dentists etc to be replaced by some bloke armed with a YouTube video who will do the job for half the price. Not a perfect analogy I know but you get my point.
I wonder how many folk who demean the Knowledge as outdated and unnecessary got themselves degrees at University? I imagine if they did they feel a sense of self-worth as a result, why should my qualification be any different? It took as much (perhaps even more) dedication, sacrifice and commitment.

2. "Black Cabs are afraid of Innovation and need to move with the times"


The London Taxi trade is one of the oldest professions in London. It goes back to Oliver Cromwell. So you could be excused for thinking we are old fashioned luddites. However, our trade has embraced technology for decades. We innovated with radio circuits and now we have Apps for booking. In fact, we had apps long before Uber arrived. We still do, namely Taxiapp, Mytaxi, CabApp and Gett (formerly GetTaxi). The problem is they haven't been advertised to the extent uber has and to understand why you need to understand the two models. Uber is a multi-billion $ corporation and the London Taxi trade is 25000 sole traders with no financial business organism or marketing machine to promote our offering. So despite having an identical offering to Uber, not enough people knew/know about it. Our apps offer both pre-book and instant bookings as well as fixed prices in many cases (for those of you terrified of the nasty old meter).

3. "Black cabs are just afraid of Competition"


No, this issue has nothing to do with competition. After all, we operate in an arena where competition is rife and has been for years. We compete with private hire companies, buses, tube, rail, coaches, in fact, every cab driver on the road is competition as far as I'm concerned! Of course, any business is a little afraid of a competitor that may affect your ability to put food on the family table. Anyone who says otherwise is probably fibbing I would say. But when an entrant to your industry comes and threatens your livelihood on an unfair basis (and it's not just taxis saying that but the existing established legitimate PH industry who have been decimated by uber), how would you feel? So this is about level playing fields, not competition and this is discussed further on.

4. "but uber are so much cheaper than black cabs"
Does the term 'Predatory pricing' mean anything to you? Last time I looked this was illegal under competition law (look up the definition, it's where a company uses artificially reduced prices to undercut and drive the competition out of business). It's great you're all getting around town for peanuts (at the moment) but there's a wider picture here. You claim black cabs have a monopoly (more on that later) but what on earth do you think ubers raison d'etre is? Their model is to use predatory pricing to drive out competition!! Sounds like monopolist thinking to me. It's the reason Italy kicked them out and I'm surprised that more wasn't made of this aspect of their operation in London, to be honest. Did you know that the fare you pay uber is around 41% of the true cost of that ride? The remainder is subsidised by venture capital investment. What do you think will happen when that runs out and/or the competition no longer exists? In what version of reality do you think this pricing is sustainable? Uber continues to lose a ton of money by operating this model, it stands to reason they're going to need to recoup this at some point, right?

5. "Black cabs are a rip off"


Well, let's start off by saying that I, the cab driver, do not set my fares (as explained previously). Uber are cheaper (also for reasons explained above) I get that totally (although in many instances a black cab is actually not particularly expensive compared to some alternatives where multiple passengers are taken into account). But I'd love to offer a cheaper service if I could. When you look at the meter you think "that's expensive" but have you any idea of our costs? For the average cabbie, around 40% of that meter price goes on expenses (cab finance/rental, insurance, tax, diesel, breakdown cover, repairs, 2 MOTs per year etc), then factor in income tax, pension (I'm self-employed) and the fact I'm not paid for time off or sickness (for which I also pay for expensive income protection cover in the event of serious illness), then my 'take' reduces much further. So this urban myth that cabbies are raking it in because of what you see on the meter simply isn't accurate, there's a wider picture you need to consider. We make a living but it's hard earned.
With regards to choice/price of cab (our vehicle choice is limited to two very expensive models, around £40k in price) we have NO SAY in these costs and the meter tariff is set by TFL, NOT US (a tariff that I would add is set based on costs, RPI etc and DOES NOT involve 'surging' at the drop of a hat). From 2018, thanks to the demonisation of diesel vehicles, all new Taxi cabs sold have to be 'zero emission capable' (electric or hybrid), and the only model announced thus far, taking into account finance, will cost around £70k! How on earth can the average cab driver afford that??
One last point on taxi fares, if the meter price bothers you, many of the taxi apps such as Gett and Mytaxi offer fixed price rides in certain circumstances.

6. "Black cabs are bullying Londoners and want to protect their monopoly"


This monopoly argument is so funny and I hear it time and again. As I touched on earlier WE DO NOT HAVE A MONOPOLY. We operate and have done for decades, in an arena with minicabs, buses, tubes, trains, coaches, rickshaws, bikes, in fact, every cabbie is my competitor to some extent. If that's your definition of a monopoly I suggest you advance directly to your dictionary without collecting £200 for passing Go. Furthermore, there is no barrier to entry into our trade, it is open to all who wish to put in the hard work to achieve a licence. If you haven't got the stuff to do it, fair enough, but please, ENOUGH with the monopoly nonsense. If you want to talk monopolies, as I said previously, look at the Uber model with regard to their predatory pricing strategy, it is the very definition of creating a monopoly!
As for the claim that cabbies are being 'bullies', if your ability to put food on your family table was threatened illegally, I'd think less of you if you didn't fight to protect it. As long as that fight was within the law then what's wrong with having a bit of stomach eh? Should we just roll over, forget the graft and sacrifice we put into attaining our qualification and let Uber tickle our bellies? That's not bullying, it's standing up to BEING bullied if anything.

7. "Uber losing its licence will put 40k employees out of work"


Uber have moved heaven and earth in the courts to dispute the fact their drivers are employees in order to avoid offering them basic workers rights (I'm not necessarily saying they should either, there's a valid argument on both sides on this). It's hypocrisy of the highest order that they now use this concern for their drivers now it suits them. What will happen to this concern when/if Uber finally roll out their proposed fleets of autonomous vehicles? Enough said.
There will still be demand in the marketplace to fill the vacuum that uber leaves behind so don't worry, those drivers will find work with legitimate PH companies. They're self-employed after all, right?
Oh and remind me again, where was the outcry and petition to sign when the livelihoods of 25k taxi drivers were (and still is to be honest) under threat from a tax avoiding US multi-billion dollar corporation? Where was the moral outrage about the multiple sexual assault cases on women attributed to Uber drivers when it was on the front page of the national papers? I must have missed those.

8. "Black cabs are expensive because they get stuck in traffic"


Let's have a look at that eh. There has been an explosion in minicab vehicle numbers in London as a result of Ubers arrival and promises of riches to its drivers, which has even seen passengers switching to them from public transport. In 2009 there were 58k minicabs licensed in London, at last count there were almost 120k. In that same time, the number of black cabs has remained virtually static at 24.5k. So is it any wonder it's becoming harder to negotiate roads with this level of unsustainable vehicular increase and the resulting added congestion.
Poor driving standards among a large number of these relatively inexperienced drivers and the resulting increase in RTAs has gone through the roof. But don't take my word for it, ask Inspector Neil Billany (head of the Metropolitan Police taxi and private hire unit) who spoke about this issue when he wrote to TFL about Ubers failures in reporting sexual assaults.
www.telegraph.co.uk/…/uber-sex-scandal-police-accuse…
He raised his concern about the additional strain on his resources in attending these traffic incidents, resources that are paid for by our taxes ironically (considering uber contribute nothing in this respect).

9. "I've used uber and never had a problem, I feel safe, I can track the vehicle etc etc"

That's as maybe, but there have been 32 cases of sexual assault/rape in Uber vehicles investigated by police in a 12 month period. That's one every 11 days! In what other industry/business does that happen and not cause some kind of public outrage? Am I missing something here? Yes, I know about John Warboys, the appalling rapist who committed his crimes in a London taxi and is now rightfully in jail. People cite this case against the London taxi trade because that's the only one you can think of and it was widely reported because it is such a rare occurrence. But THIRTY TWO cases of sexual assault/rape in a single year? How many others went unreported I wonder, given the issues raised by Inspector Neil Billany
www.telegraph.co.uk/…/uber-sex-scandal-police-accuse…
This surely raises questions about the vetting process and comes back to my argument about the value of The Knowledge qualification as a deterrent to opportunist, would-be sex offenders jumping in a taxi after filling in a form and handing over a cheque.






So there it is, thanks for sticking with it and I hope that's been helpful. It's written from a viewpoint of someone who has pride in and cares greatly about their trade, not just the fact it's my livelihood at stake. I've tried to stick to pure facts and not just ranting about the situation. I'm not for one minute trying to paint every London cabbie as an angel, I know there are bad apples and I'm sure some of you, particularly uber users, have experienced one at some point. But that's human nature, every trade/industry has the same, we're no different. But the overwhelming majority of us are committed to and care deeply about our profession in the same way nurses, policemen, firemen, teachers do and, like those boys and girls, we can become unpopular when we voice our concerns and frustrations. We just want a fair shake.

Finally, if you haven't had enough, here's another well-written piece on this subject by someone who isn't a cab driver...
www.stylist.co.uk/…/uber-license-revoked-tfl-reactio…

Be lucky x
 
Well worth a read....

I copied and pasted this from the Licenced Taxi Drivers Forum.
Read it, ignore it, believe it, don't believe it, pour scorn on it, treat it how you wish,
but it was penned by someone who knows what he's talking about.
When you've read it, you may still be convinced that the author, and the Black Cab
drivers he talks about, are dinosaurs, and their time has come and gone, but at least
you will have read a cogent argument about what's happening vis-a-vis Uber, and
the London licenced trade.




Monday, 25 September 2017

At Risk Of Repeating Myself...
I wrote something along these lines a couple of years back and now here I am again with a distinct sense of deja vu, albeit under slightly different circumstances.
Last week Transport For London (TFL) announced it would deny the renewal of Ubers licence to continue its minicab operation in London from the end of September, on various fit and proper operator grounds. Of course Uber will attempt to overturn this via appeal but for now it's caused all manner of consternation among the Uberati in the city and beyond.

I'm not here to argue with those people, after all, as a Licensed London Taxi driver (aka 'black cab driver' when it comes to this debate) I'd be dismissed as biased anyway. Which I am obviously, however, I have bitten my lip and kept well out of any spats on social media, where the battle of opinion on the matter seems to be taking place, in the main.

However, as usual in such instances, I see SO MANY ill-informed and plain inaccurate comments being made about my industry all over the place that I just have to put some facts straight or at the very least, inform people of a few things to at least educate them to some extent. I don't expect for a minute it will change their outlook on the situation but it will make me feel better anyway and at least every time I see the uneducated comment I can direct them to this.
So, I'm addressing the main points that it seems people have the most to shout about in this debate and hopefully this helps to put some context out there. This isn't biased ranting, anecdotal opinion or political spin, it's just plain facts, so please sit comfortably and digest.



1. "The Knowledge is outdated and isn't required now we have Satnav"


'The Knowledge', for those unfamiliar with the term, in a nutshell, is the qualification process that London cabbies embark on to attain their green badge (license). It involves learning all the streets and points of interest (POI) in London in order to pass a series of rigorous examinations to test your knowledge of these roads and points as well as your mental route planning ability around the city. It can take anywhere between 3-5 years to pass, depending on how well you perform in the regular exams.
Now, I get it, Satnav has come a long way and, yes, it can get you from A to B in the majority of cases. It won't always take you the best way, particularly in Londons congested labyrinthine road network and it doesn't have the intuition that a human brain with local knowledge has, but I accept for many situations it is fine. Having said that, it's not ideal having what is supposed to be a professional driver solely reliant on following a satnav, with all the distractions that entails.
However, the Knowledge is not just a test of your road, routing and POI knowledge, it is also a massive test of character. Who would invest so much time, effort and sacrifice to qualify as a professional in their field, only to throw away that livelihood at the drop of a hat via criminal activity. It's as good as a CRB check in my opinion. It sorts the wheat from the chaff, as it were. It verifies the dedication of a person and instils a sense of pride and respect in that person for their trade. What's wrong with that? Is having well-qualified individuals who clearly care passionately about a trade a bad thing? Don't we want people to strive to be the best they can be in their chosen profession? I don't see a clamour for expensive lawyers, dentists etc to be replaced by some bloke armed with a YouTube video who will do the job for half the price. Not a perfect analogy I know but you get my point.
I wonder how many folk who demean the Knowledge as outdated and unnecessary got themselves degrees at University? I imagine if they did they feel a sense of self-worth as a result, why should my qualification be any different? It took as much (perhaps even more) dedication, sacrifice and commitment.

2. "Black Cabs are afraid of Innovation and need to move with the times"


The London Taxi trade is one of the oldest professions in London. It goes back to Oliver Cromwell. So you could be excused for thinking we are old fashioned luddites. However, our trade has embraced technology for decades. We innovated with radio circuits and now we have Apps for booking. In fact, we had apps long before Uber arrived. We still do, namely Taxiapp, Mytaxi, CabApp and Gett (formerly GetTaxi). The problem is they haven't been advertised to the extent uber has and to understand why you need to understand the two models. Uber is a multi-billion $ corporation and the London Taxi trade is 25000 sole traders with no financial business organism or marketing machine to promote our offering. So despite having an identical offering to Uber, not enough people knew/know about it. Our apps offer both pre-book and instant bookings as well as fixed prices in many cases (for those of you terrified of the nasty old meter).

3. "Black cabs are just afraid of Competition"


No, this issue has nothing to do with competition. After all, we operate in an arena where competition is rife and has been for years. We compete with private hire companies, buses, tube, rail, coaches, in fact, every cab driver on the road is competition as far as I'm concerned! Of course, any business is a little afraid of a competitor that may affect your ability to put food on the family table. Anyone who says otherwise is probably fibbing I would say. But when an entrant to your industry comes and threatens your livelihood on an unfair basis (and it's not just taxis saying that but the existing established legitimate PH industry who have been decimated by uber), how would you feel? So this is about level playing fields, not competition and this is discussed further on.

4. "but uber are so much cheaper than black cabs"
Does the term 'Predatory pricing' mean anything to you? Last time I looked this was illegal under competition law (look up the definition, it's where a company uses artificially reduced prices to undercut and drive the competition out of business). It's great you're all getting around town for peanuts (at the moment) but there's a wider picture here. You claim black cabs have a monopoly (more on that later) but what on earth do you think ubers raison d'etre is? Their model is to use predatory pricing to drive out competition!! Sounds like monopolist thinking to me. It's the reason Italy kicked them out and I'm surprised that more wasn't made of this aspect of their operation in London, to be honest. Did you know that the fare you pay uber is around 41% of the true cost of that ride? The remainder is subsidised by venture capital investment. What do you think will happen when that runs out and/or the competition no longer exists? In what version of reality do you think this pricing is sustainable? Uber continues to lose a ton of money by operating this model, it stands to reason they're going to need to recoup this at some point, right?

5. "Black cabs are a rip off"


Well, let's start off by saying that I, the cab driver, do not set my fares (as explained previously). Uber are cheaper (also for reasons explained above) I get that totally (although in many instances a black cab is actually not particularly expensive compared to some alternatives where multiple passengers are taken into account). But I'd love to offer a cheaper service if I could. When you look at the meter you think "that's expensive" but have you any idea of our costs? For the average cabbie, around 40% of that meter price goes on expenses (cab finance/rental, insurance, tax, diesel, breakdown cover, repairs, 2 MOTs per year etc), then factor in income tax, pension (I'm self-employed) and the fact I'm not paid for time off or sickness (for which I also pay for expensive income protection cover in the event of serious illness), then my 'take' reduces much further. So this urban myth that cabbies are raking it in because of what you see on the meter simply isn't accurate, there's a wider picture you need to consider. We make a living but it's hard earned.
With regards to choice/price of cab (our vehicle choice is limited to two very expensive models, around £40k in price) we have NO SAY in these costs and the meter tariff is set by TFL, NOT US (a tariff that I would add is set based on costs, RPI etc and DOES NOT involve 'surging' at the drop of a hat). From 2018, thanks to the demonisation of diesel vehicles, all new Taxi cabs sold have to be 'zero emission capable' (electric or hybrid), and the only model announced thus far, taking into account finance, will cost around £70k! How on earth can the average cab driver afford that??
One last point on taxi fares, if the meter price bothers you, many of the taxi apps such as Gett and Mytaxi offer fixed price rides in certain circumstances.

6. "Black cabs are bullying Londoners and want to protect their monopoly"


This monopoly argument is so funny and I hear it time and again. As I touched on earlier WE DO NOT HAVE A MONOPOLY. We operate and have done for decades, in an arena with minicabs, buses, tubes, trains, coaches, rickshaws, bikes, in fact, every cabbie is my competitor to some extent. If that's your definition of a monopoly I suggest you advance directly to your dictionary without collecting £200 for passing Go. Furthermore, there is no barrier to entry into our trade, it is open to all who wish to put in the hard work to achieve a licence. If you haven't got the stuff to do it, fair enough, but please, ENOUGH with the monopoly nonsense. If you want to talk monopolies, as I said previously, look at the Uber model with regard to their predatory pricing strategy, it is the very definition of creating a monopoly!
As for the claim that cabbies are being 'bullies', if your ability to put food on your family table was threatened illegally, I'd think less of you if you didn't fight to protect it. As long as that fight was within the law then what's wrong with having a bit of stomach eh? Should we just roll over, forget the graft and sacrifice we put into attaining our qualification and let Uber tickle our bellies? That's not bullying, it's standing up to BEING bullied if anything.

7. "Uber losing its licence will put 40k employees out of work"


Uber have moved heaven and earth in the courts to dispute the fact their drivers are employees in order to avoid offering them basic workers rights (I'm not necessarily saying they should either, there's a valid argument on both sides on this). It's hypocrisy of the highest order that they now use this concern for their drivers now it suits them. What will happen to this concern when/if Uber finally roll out their proposed fleets of autonomous vehicles? Enough said.
There will still be demand in the marketplace to fill the vacuum that uber leaves behind so don't worry, those drivers will find work with legitimate PH companies. They're self-employed after all, right?
Oh and remind me again, where was the outcry and petition to sign when the livelihoods of 25k taxi drivers were (and still is to be honest) under threat from a tax avoiding US multi-billion dollar corporation? Where was the moral outrage about the multiple sexual assault cases on women attributed to Uber drivers when it was on the front page of the national papers? I must have missed those.

8. "Black cabs are expensive because they get stuck in traffic"


Let's have a look at that eh. There has been an explosion in minicab vehicle numbers in London as a result of Ubers arrival and promises of riches to its drivers, which has even seen passengers switching to them from public transport. In 2009 there were 58k minicabs licensed in London, at last count there were almost 120k. In that same time, the number of black cabs has remained virtually static at 24.5k. So is it any wonder it's becoming harder to negotiate roads with this level of unsustainable vehicular increase and the resulting added congestion.
Poor driving standards among a large number of these relatively inexperienced drivers and the resulting increase in RTAs has gone through the roof. But don't take my word for it, ask Inspector Neil Billany (head of the Metropolitan Police taxi and private hire unit) who spoke about this issue when he wrote to TFL about Ubers failures in reporting sexual assaults.
www.telegraph.co.uk/…/uber-sex-scandal-police-accuse…
He raised his concern about the additional strain on his resources in attending these traffic incidents, resources that are paid for by our taxes ironically (considering uber contribute nothing in this respect).

9. "I've used uber and never had a problem, I feel safe, I can track the vehicle etc etc"

That's as maybe, but there have been 32 cases of sexual assault/rape in Uber vehicles investigated by police in a 12 month period. That's one every 11 days! In what other industry/business does that happen and not cause some kind of public outrage? Am I missing something here? Yes, I know about John Warboys, the appalling rapist who committed his crimes in a London taxi and is now rightfully in jail. People cite this case against the London taxi trade because that's the only one you can think of and it was widely reported because it is such a rare occurrence. But THIRTY TWO cases of sexual assault/rape in a single year? How many others went unreported I wonder, given the issues raised by Inspector Neil Billany
www.telegraph.co.uk/…/uber-sex-scandal-police-accuse…
This surely raises questions about the vetting process and comes back to my argument about the value of The Knowledge qualification as a deterrent to opportunist, would-be sex offenders jumping in a taxi after filling in a form and handing over a cheque.






So there it is, thanks for sticking with it and I hope that's been helpful. It's written from a viewpoint of someone who has pride in and cares greatly about their trade, not just the fact it's my livelihood at stake. I've tried to stick to pure facts and not just ranting about the situation. I'm not for one minute trying to paint every London cabbie as an angel, I know there are bad apples and I'm sure some of you, particularly uber users, have experienced one at some point. But that's human nature, every trade/industry has the same, we're no different. But the overwhelming majority of us are committed to and care deeply about our profession in the same way nurses, policemen, firemen, teachers do and, like those boys and girls, we can become unpopular when we voice our concerns and frustrations. We just want a fair shake.

Finally, if you haven't had enough, here's another well-written piece on this subject by someone who isn't a cab driver...
www.stylist.co.uk/…/uber-license-revoked-tfl-reactio…

Be lucky x

I'm with you 100%. I hope the CEO of Uber gets cancer. Uber killed my father. He was a taxi driver. Used to live comfortably. Uber came in and took his business and he slowly lost everything. He recently became homeless and is now living in a homeless shelter. He has tried to kill himself twice, once by trying to jump from the cliffs at Niagara Falls, all because of Uber. Anybody who supports Uber is a scumbag as far as I'm concerned. Are you a professional that provides a service? Let's say, selling homes? What do you make as commission? Let's say five percent? Imagine if Uber started selling houses at 1% and they were good at it and they took all your business and you ended up homeless.

Uber is satan. They have killed my father.
 
I think your anger is rather misplaced there, uber hasn't killed your father! If you make 5% selling homes then frankly you deserve to lose your business and have someone else come along and steal your lunch. I hope online estate agents continue to put regular ones out of business and ditto to innovative taxi apps and minicab firms. Its just progress tbh....
 
Considering I am in the process of selling g. My UShome and will have to stump Joe going rate of 6%, whatever company can come along and break the collusion and get the prices down to1% deserves to be knighted.



I haven't of issues with Uber,but being cheaper and under cutting tracks is not one of them. And the prices is also debateable,they are quite often more expensive than a private cab.
 
I think it depends on the location, I know it has been hard in some locations of the US for them to bring prices down low enough. Re: estate agents the US market is a bit backwards and inefficient compared to the rest of the developed world, pointless bureaucracy and collision seem to be issues there.
 
out of curiosity why the heck are the victims not going to the police?

if i was sexually assaulted the last thing id be doing is calling the persons boss and saying "and you will make sure to tell the police yeah? cause i cant be arsed."

also dont uber inform the tfl who also failed to inform the police


Now, I get it, Satnav has come a long way and, yes, it can get you from A to B in the majority of cases. It won't always take you the best way, particularly in Londons congested labyrinthine road network and it doesn't have the intuition that a human brain with local knowledge has, but I accept for many situations it is fine. Having said that, it's not ideal having what is supposed to be a professional driver solely reliant on following a satnav, with all the distractions that entails.

except things like google maps uses nearly everyone's phones gps to work out how fast their moving and thus generate real time very accurate traffic data, well beyond anything a human is capable of learning or being aware of.
 
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out of curiosity why the heck are the victims not going to the police?

if i was sexually assaulted the last thing id be doing is calling the persons boss and saying "and you will make sure to tell the police yeah? cause i cant be arsed."

also dont uber inform the tfl who also failed to inform the police
I've been saying this from the start! Point 1 is "failure to report sexual offenses" or something. It's like wtf? If you suffer a sexual assault you damn well go to the police, not Uber? I honestly don't understand...
 
I've been saying this from the start! Point 1 is "failure to report sexual offenses" or something. It's like wtf? If you suffer a sexual assault you damn well go to the police, not Uber? I honestly don't understand...
I guess that depends how severe sexual assault was or that victim might not be comfortable contacting police and trusting in Uber will take care of it. There has been 32 allegations against Uber drivers which MET Police investigated. Regardless, its PCO Operators responsibility to report these to Police once allegation or complain has been put through them.... Apperantly Uber has a team which work with Police but they report serious crimes to TFL but not police itself and reported non serious "low-level" fraud to police instead and when questioned Uber told them they didn't automatically report serious crimes to police in case it breached passenger rights.
From MET Police Inspectors letter.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzuZ18dkhTYGZ1NfS2drcnpnZ2M/view
The delay in the offence occurring and a report coming to the attention of police ranged from a matter of weeks to 7 months. The two public order offences mentioned above are subject to a 6 month prosecution time limit so subsequently both were taken no further as by the time we became aware of the offence we had no power to proceed, despite both having clear evidence of an offence taking place.

The significant concern I am raising is that Uber have been made aware of criminal activity and yet haven’t informed the police. Uber are however proactive in reporting lower level document frauds to both the MPS and LTPH. My concern is twofold, firstly it seems they are deciding what to report (less serious matters / less damaging to reputation over serious offences) and secondly by not reporting to police promptly they are allowing situations to develop that clearly affect the safety and security of the public.
 
Im sorry sexual assault is sexual assault. If those who have been assaulted are going to Uber rather than the police, then they clearly aren't that interested in a satisfactory outcome.
 
There has been 32 allegations against Uber drivers which MET Police investigated.
Black cab drivers, sexual assault — and why you should always read the data
For the time period requested 154 allegations of Rape or Sexual Assault were made to the MPS in which the suspect was alleged to have been a taxi driver. Of those reports 32 allegations were reported in which it was stated that the suspect was an Uber driver. In other words, there were 122 allegations of rape or sexual assault that Uber were categorically not responsible for.
I'm getting bored of the "Uber drivers are sexual predators" line now. It's just not true. For every 1 sexual assault linked to an Uber driver, there are 4 linked to a (non-Uber) taxi driver. Let's stop getting suckered into misleading stats like a bunch of mouth-breathing Daily Mail readers shall we?

Regardless, its PCO Operators responsibility to report these to Police once allegation or complain has been put through them.... Apperantly Uber has a team which work with Police but they report serious crimes to TFL but not police itself and reported non serious "low-level" fraud to police instead and when questioned Uber told them they didn't automatically report serious crimes to police in case it breached passenger rights.
This part is an issue I agree with. However where does TFL stand in the process? If an assault is reported to them and not the police, do TFL not take any responsibility for making sure it is reported to police also? Or are they just washing their hands of it. Again, it stands to reason that any sexual assault should be reported to the police anyway -- not Uber. I still don't understand why people would do that.
 
Hmm, thinking the majority of these assaults take place with drunk, vulnerable women on their way home from a bar/club?
Thing is how many more cases of sexual assault would there be if the 99.99% of woman who had a perfectly normal, safe trip home in an uber instead used a hokey dodgy cab or decided to walk home either because they don't want to pay £60+ pound vs £20-30 or in the latter case couldn't find a black cab at that time of night?

Get in an uber and it takes the mick with route etc... shoot them an email with pic of the route and you'll have a full discount the same day. Good luck getting the same from a black cab!

Having uber is a godsend for those who live in the outskirts of the city and want to travel a bit further out, finding a cab to do that is near impossible and they'll charge you 2x as much (black cab/Addison lee). That's not an exaggeration either. I live in Greenwich with family in Orpington, I can order an uber and it's waiting downstairs before I can get down the lift. Visiting them previously was a length expensive affair.
 
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