UEFA Champions League/Europa League 6/7/8 March *** Spoilers ***

[Tom84]

Where did I say I care about the FA Cup? For the record though yes I'd much rather end the season with the FA Cup than the Europa League.

And yes 40% is just under half, generally in most of the big games possession is fairly even usually 56/44 if Spurs like you say they did had 60% possession then that's ******* pitiful like you say whatsoever.

It's also highly ironic that I'm even having this discussion with you given you're he who takes no notice of possession stats if that possession is just square passes without much actual penetrative play which is exactly what most of Spurs play last Sunday was (certainly in the first half that you're referring to)

 

[Shamikebab]

Well it wasn't so much what Spurs were doing with the ball...it's the fact we didn't have it. We've been on the lower side of possession a worrying amount this season, it puts a lot of pressure on our defence (who largely haven't coped with it whatsoever) and means the strikers are feeding on scraps.

Oh and pass accuracy is not the same as possession. They're linked but not the same. I get annoyed when people go "blah blah he had 95% pass accuracy he must have had a great game. It's very misleading.

 

[cm1179]

shamikebab is right. the fact united are where they are is a sign of the pl and the psychological edge united have, this can't last forever. man united haven't played attractive stuff for 2 seasons yet still set the bar.

you're missing vidic and have had other players out but that doesn't excuse the fact you've chanced a lot of results and this is unsustainable.

surely united supporters must be scratching their head with worry as much as they are grinning when they come away from game such as the spurs game?

props to united for getting where they are with the teams they've put out but you're far from entertaining for the best part.

 

[FrankJH]

I think the problem is it's all very well and good saying only the result matters and the performance is irrelevant...except there's one thing playing **** against Norwich and still managing to win, then when we play the same level of **** against Ajax/Bilbao/Spurs (I think even the most diehard United fan will agree that was a freak result from the performance) we're in trouble. If we're going to win anything this season we need to beat Bilbao on their home turf or beat City on their home turf, and currently we don't look close to capable of either.

Totally agree with everything you say, the only thing I would say is this


It doesnt help with Evra saying things like " I am embararrased to captain Utd in Europa League" (or words to that effect) a few days before the match.

Every player, (no matter how new /young they are) KNOWS from the second they sign for UTD, its the CL that is the prize that really matters and after that defending / getting the EPL back.

While it will be drilled into them time and time again, (and the closeness of the top two places in the league) that the club cant afford to frop any (more) points, Im sure majority of the players minds are focused on 24th April .....or whenever the Etihad meeting is set for. .... not to mention if they arent up for a little revenge after the 1-6 drubbing, then possibly they arent Utd calibre in the first place

Whatever SAF says to the team before hand, I think they know all too well when squad players are used as starters....not to mention when SAF decides to put Jones into centre half (which is undisputed his worst position by far) when Smalling comes off, and not play Rio at all.....without even thiking about the hash of midfield

you're missing vidic and have had other players out but that doesn't excuse the fact you've chanced a lot of results and this is unsustainable.
.

To be fair Im sure most EPL managers (if not all managers) preech to their teams that defence is the foundation of the team. The majority of teams arent great in attack if their defence is shaky, and its (arguably) worse for a team that a season or two ago had the best defensive record in the league... although admittedly there were a lot of 1-0 wins from what I recall

(ie if as a team you are used to playing with a shaky defence, you deal with it and get on with the game and its part of the game plan /tactics - however a team who is used to having a rock solid defence and possibly one of the best g/k in the league in VDS, appears much more shaky and performances suffer and appear much worse than the team "used " to it).

Its also not just Vidic either, we have lost Rio for long periods as well, the RB position /player changes nearly every game between 3 different players, and the most experienced centre half Utd have after Rio & Vidic cant marshall the defence anywhere close to how the other two do it.


I think the above is exactly why the rumour that SAF is seriously after Dede (I hope anyway, even if Vidic does recover fully, Jones isnt a suitable centre half and wont be for a while and with Rio suseptable to back issues, I wouldnt be surprised with another one joining in the summer). Smalling nd Jones are versatile enough, they dont necessarily lose their spot anyway.

Totally agree with your point that it isnt sustainable - we have lucked into too many results Im just hoping SAF is able to admit it (with the current debt easing considerably, Im hoping a big spending summer is about to occur)

 

[johnyccc]

I'm unsure why SAF has ditched the 5 man midfield this year, it worked fairly well for a number of seasons recently but it seems gone now. Against a decent Spanish side, if you insist on starting with the likes Giggs/Jones in the centre having that extra man there to help seems an obvious tactic.

 

[FrankJH]

I'm unsure why SAF has ditched the 5 man midfield this year, it worked fairly well for a number of seasons recently but it seems gone now. Against a decent Spanish side, if you insist on starting with the likes Giggs/Jones in the centre having that extra man there to help seems an obvious tactic.

Injuries as much as anything I would guess , while the situation is easing there are still a number of players who arent close to match fitness (so a 2nd player is required an hour or so in) ......Im not entirely sure if its true, but is it fokelore or medical testimony that unfit players are also more prone to getting injured again?

And also (as with any manager) SAF would probably prefer to burn in hell rather than play Pogba ....if the stories of him leaving are true. So with him and Morrison unavailable (and probably in the forefront of his mind in Dec being used in the Europa matches) thats two extra players he needs to find while still challanging for EPL

 

[Shamikebab]

I'm unsure why SAF has ditched the 5 man midfield this year, it worked fairly well for a number of seasons recently but it seems gone now. Against a decent Spanish side, if you insist on starting with the likes Giggs/Jones in the centre having that extra man there to help seems an obvious tactic.

Most likely because of he really likes Welbeck/Hernandez and for large portions we haven't actually had 5 midfielders.

We shouldn't need to use that though, the only reason we've had to in the past is because we've played 3 ok midfielders instead of 2 good ones.

 

[Tom84]

shamikebab is right. the fact united are where they are is a sign of the pl and the psychological edge united have, this can't last forever. man united haven't played attractive stuff for 2 seasons yet still set the bar.

you're missing vidic and have had other players out but that doesn't excuse the fact you've chanced a lot of results and this is unsustainable.

We played some of the best football in the league early on, the performance against City in the Shield especially dwarfs anything I've seen from any other PL team this season tbh.

Oh and yes the injuries are an excuse, what people like yourself (understandably because you don't follow the club) don't understand is that there's only 1 player who hasn't missed a game through injury this season and that's Evra. And not only is losing Vidic when we did the equivalent of City losing Kompany when your entire defence is crocked like ours has been at times this season and you have to play your best midfielder in defence that then has a knock on effect in midfield and if your midfield is suffering then so is your attack an area of which that has also never been really settled either due to numerous injuries to Rooney, Welbeck & Hernandez at one point or another.

The fact that we're two points of the top with the injuries we've had this season is remarkable and if it were any other club they'd be wallowing lower than there expected position blaming their injuries, the fact we're only two points off the top though the amount of injuries we've had is simply ignored.

EDIT: actually turns out I'm wrong, Evra missed the first game of the season through injury

 

[The Running Man]

Thing is, you talk about the europa or the cl.

I play football now for many years at a very low level. It doesn't matter if im playing against top of the league or bottom or if its a cup. I go out wanting to win every game just the same. I don't play thinking this game or competition is more than another. Its for personal pride
. I hate to lose. I must win.

Are we saying that pro footballers become so pious that they lose this drive to win?

After bilbao scored number 3 you could see the change right away like someone shoved a firework up Youngs bum and told him to start attacking or it would explode. Clearly they can lift their game when necessary.

Are we to blame:
Selection
Players
Manager for failing to motivate team?

There needs to be accountability yet no one comes out to criticise the manager or the team - instead hiding behind the facade that the cup is so lowly it doesn't matter.

 

[Shamikebab]

The amount of time we require going behind before we actually start trying is damning, the attitude in the team has been really poor this season.

 

[The Running Man]

I think its more than that. I think its a genuine lack of quality.

We havery players on a decline- the old hands like giggs, scholes, evra etc you cant just put any old kid next to them and bank on the old boys to make up the difference.

I could have told you that giggs/jones is a totally awful midfield pairing.

Yout can't have park on a wing and realistically expect him to create anything of value regularly. Young just can't play on the right (im sure its psychological). Once you accept the airfield was terrible in design you can understand why we looked so bad in game.

It led to hopeless long ball and to bilbao winning possession back every couple of mins.