UEFA Euro 2020 Semi Finals ** spoilers ** [6th - 7th July 2021]

[tlrBeta]

England will beat Italy I feel. England's pace up to will just take its toll on Italy, particularly if they press high. If England don't allow Italy to play it out from the back and make them play it long (Italy don't do it - no height up top) it will be fairly straight forward.

However, if they don't do that, Italy also have some runners that can cause problems.

 

[mmj_uk]

You've got it precisely right.
The worst that can be levelled at Sterling is that he didn't make more of an effort to stay on his feet. You clearly see him stumble after the contact and then he makes a conscious effort not to plant his right leg that was contacted as he is already knocked off balance and been affected by the contact.
This is why I suspect people are wrongly calling it a dive, but the two are not the same thing.

The act of going down as a choice is diving/simulation, he could have stayed on his feet and appealed for a penalty but that obviously wouldn't have had the same impact which is why players dive/simulate and make things look worse than they are. Contact or no contact diving/simulation is still a conscious choice.

Like I said if the shoe had been on the other foot we'd all be talking about how we were robbed.

The best thing we can do now is win the final in style and on merit and if Italy win it with a soft penalty don't complain, we were the better team last night (particularly the last hour) but we weren't really all that threatening and a penalty shootout looked nailed on. I was also surprised to hear Denmark had played the second half of injury time with 10 men the way we were running the clock down.

 

[Martynt74]

Good sportsmanship, fair play and mutual respect should be encouraged. Laugh along and wish your opponents luck when they mock you, don’t stoop to their level.

Exactly, just look at Chiellini before the penalties in the other Semi. Such good nature and sportsmanship.

 

[rhobbyh]

There seems to be a big majority or people on this particular thread who firmly believe a penalty was correctly given and a significant proportion who believe it was a clear cut easy decision for a penalty.

I ask these people, do you believe you are being objective or do you admit to be biased?

 

[Ayahuasca]

There seems to be a big majority or people on this particular thread who firmly believe a penalty was correctly given and a significant proportion who believe it was a clear cut easy decision for a penalty.

I ask these people, do you believe you are being objective or do you admit to be biased?

I'd like to know how you formed this idea that it's a big majority? I would say over half have said it wasn't a pen or it was soft.

Anyway, how's Wales doing with their 2 superstars as Robbie Savage called them.

 

[Rroff]

I don't think Southgate's tactics will be compatible with a final against Italy. I honestly think our only hope is to overwhelm them with our pace and basically just go for it. If we try and play tight and hope to edge it they will 100% beat us. And penalties? In the final? At Wembley? In front of the fans? NOPE. We need to have it won nice and early....they're too canny to try and keep at arms length.

Problem is, that just isn't our Gareth, is it?

I wonder if Southgate's tactics last night were based purely on identifying their weakness/our advantage as us having the fitness edge and playing to wear them out and win hence holding subs - which is alright if things go to plan but you need to be responsive/have a plan B if things don't work to plan on the night.

Nothing worse than a manager who when the opponent has a hard counter to their master plan refuses to believe it won't work until well into the last 5 minutes of a match then making desperate last minute substitutions when they have no time to turn the game around.

Italy have good enough game management they won't be pushed back by simply identifying mathematical weaknesses/advantages.

 

[Eddie]

There seems to be a big majority or people on this particular thread who firmly believe a penalty was correctly given and a significant proportion who believe it was a clear cut easy decision for a penalty.

I ask these people, do you believe you are being objective or do you admit to be biased?

Football fans biased? Nooooo

 

[rhobbyh]

I'd like to know how you formed this idea that it's a big majority? I would say over half have said it wasn't a pen or it was soft.

Anyway, how's Wales doing with their 2 superstars as Robbie Savage called them.

Thats just how it seems to me as I scrolled through the posts (not trying to be offensive, and obviously apologies in advance if someone tallies them up and its not as big).

You seem to be quite interested in Wales, you should maybe come here!

 

[ik9000]

Nothing worse than a manager who when the opponent has a hard counter to their master plan refuses to believe it won't work until well into the last 5 minutes of a match then making desperate last minute substitutions when they have no time to turn the game around.

# England Iceland 2016, # England Croatia 2018

 

[Ayahuasca]

You seem to be quite interested in Wales, you should maybe come here!

No thanks mate, there are enough sheep in this thread.

 

[rhobbyh]

Football fans biased? Nooooo

Very true.

But do those thinking its a definite penalty believe they are being objective and setting bias aside?

 

[fez]

I wonder if Southgate's tactics last night were based purely on identifying their weakness/our advantage as us having the fitness edge and playing to wear them out and win hence holding subs - which is alright if things go to plan but you need to be responsive/have a plan B if things don't work to plan on the night.

Our main advantages were that we had a far better first XI, far better bench, fitter players. We should have had no issue beating Denmark and as it was we required an OG and a soft extra time penalty. Southgate got his "tactics" completely wrong. I don't like any game plan that relies on luck and Southgate played that whole game like we were facing the likes of France or Belgium.

Who knows, perhaps his dour football will work against Italy and he had better hope it does or people start to question him a little more. People are so results driven in football that they don't stop to wonder what the long term sustainability is of playing turgid, reactive and defensive football when you have a wealth of attacking talent at your command. I don't think he knows what to do with it.

I still have no idea how any objective fan can look at our performances in this years Euros and think that Southgate is some sort of messiah and a genius. Hes got arguably the best squad in the Euros scraping past very average teams whilst playing at about 60% of the players potential. Well done Gareth.

 

[Basher]

Very true.

But do those thinking its a definite penalty believe they are being objective and setting bias aside?

Everyone believes they act without bias, so asking them probably isn't going to tell you much.

 

[Eddie]

Very true.

But do those thinking its a definite penalty believe they are being objective and setting bias aside?

Not speaking specifically to this instance, but in general, for the majority, for most of the time, I'd wager bias plays a significant role in a lot of footballing discussion/debate/whatever else, it's just the nature of being a fan.

 

[DrToffnar]

I get there's controversy over the penalty, but to me the decision was pretty much spot on. They where terrified of Sterling all evening and rightly so. He's our most capable player more times then not and if you want to cut the chances short you have to push in on a player like that, but it comes ladened with risk in that it can be easily exploited by the opposing player. Sterling did just that. Did he go down easy? Of course he did, but that's football. Regardless, he was physically impeded by two opposing players in the box who didn't even seem to be going for the ball.

With regards bias, of course I'd have gone mental if it where switched! It's the semi final of a major tournament and I'm emotionally invested in my team winning. I'd have swore and cursed the ref to hell and back, but ultimately once the emotions had settled, I'd have come to the same conclusion. It's like Wrighty said, those sorts of falls are common place now and are often rewarded. Almost every player would take the same opportunity if it where offered to them I imagine.

 

[azazl187]

There seems to be a big majority or people on this particular thread who firmly believe a penalty was correctly given and a significant proportion who believe it was a clear cut easy decision for a penalty.

I ask these people, do you believe you are being objective or do you admit to be biased?

I'm an England fan and I called dive. Yes a win is a win but that was at most a soft penalty

 

[MartinPrince]

Like I said if the shoe had been on the other foot we'd all be talking about how we were robbed.

No I wouldn't have been because I saw the contact and also that he was not going down before contact was made. I'd be upset with the defender for making the challenge.

The problem is unless the contact is clearly apparent or the attacker has been cleaned out by the defender then people claim it was a dive. Doku had the same thing levelled against him for Belgium when he was clearly pushed in the back and awarded a penalty.

Saying Sterling should stay on his feet then appeal for the penalty is a bit daft as in decades I've spent watching football I've never seen a player who has done that ever get a penalty. (Patrick Bamford did the same thing recently and got nothing)

The fact that the slightest touch, often hardly noticeable and only felt by the player himself, can make the most earnest/honest attacker running at speed stumble or fall often means that many times it has gone unpunished. This is where VAR has been great, and as VAR has now clearly shown on this occasion Sterling was contacted, causing him to loose balance and before he went down.

Jack Grealish has been a perfect example of this over the past season.

 

[DrToffnar]

@MartinPrince said it a lot better then I did



Also, of course I'd have felt robbed. We where the better side almost entirely throughout. Annoys me slightly that people bemoan others for focusing too much on the result yet seem to disregard our performance in general which was last night, by in large, as good as it could have been with the game plan Southgates going for (minus a few odd decisions because he's gotta stay on theme a little...).

I'm not a Southgate apologist. A lot of what he does is unconventional given the quality of players we have I'll admit but it's not as though we've never played attack centric football before, not as though we've not had lucky draws before, not as though we've never scraped through games against average sides before, not as though better teams have never gotten unlucky against us before...

What I'm saying is we've had all this before since 66' and it's gotten us no further then a semi final.

Unless you're absolutely stellar (which very few teams in international football are at ANY point), world stage tournament football is as much about luck of the draw and feel on the evening as it is about overall squad depth or skill.

 

[UTmaniac]

Some limited media talk of increasing final to 90000 tickets and an extra bank holiday if England win the final. Probably just hot air.

 

[Trusty]

Our main advantages were that we had a far better first XI, far better bench, fitter players. We should have had no issue beating Denmark and as it was we required an OG and a soft extra time penalty. Southgate got his "tactics" completely wrong. I don't like any game plan that relies on luck and Southgate played that whole game like we were facing the likes of France or Belgium.

Who knows, perhaps his dour football will work against Italy and he had better hope it does or people start to question him a little more. People are so results driven in football that they don't stop to wonder what the long term sustainability is of playing turgid, reactive and defensive football when you have a wealth of attacking talent at your command. I don't think he knows what to do with it.

I still have no idea how any objective fan can look at our performances in this years Euros and think that Southgate is some sort of messiah and a genius. Hes got arguably the best squad in the Euros scraping past very average teams whilst playing at about 60% of the players potential. Well done Gareth.

Southgate didn't get the tactics wrong though..



England smashed them, Denmark were lucky it wasn't 4-1. Denmark had 1 shot inside the box...1!!
We literally gave nothing away