Like I said in another thread the far left have lost all grip on reality at this point, it's like they're living in a fantasy land where the only thing that's real is their insane beliefs and those of their social bubble and anyone who tries to burst it is a hateful far right Nazi.
"UK refusal to issue gender-neutral passports unlawful, high court told"
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Like I said in another thread the far left have lost all grip on reality at this point, it's like they're living in a fantasy land where the only thing that's real is their insane beliefs and those of their social bubble and anyone who tries to burst it is a hateful far right Nazi.
Soldato
I'm bemused why all these arguments around gender and biological sex exist at all. What meaningful difference does it make to your child what box is ticked on a birth certificate. Recording sex at birth is a valuable statistic for future population review.
Endless silly arguments about nothing. Go argue for real social change and for equality of opportunities for all!
Man of Honour
Well the most obvious one...
If all women on Earth were transwomen, and all men on Earth were transmen... we'd be royally ****ed
By using reproduction as the way you define sex, you've just defined all people who can't have children as being neuter. Including, but by no means limited to, all post-menopausal women. Is that really the position you want to take?
Yes, but it's the best we've got at the moment. I'm fine with calling it close enough to count.
Man of Honour
But that's not what they want, so why would they be arguing for it? They want group identity, they want a hierarchy of group identities, they want conflict so they can win and assert their dominance, they want irrational prejudice and discrimination, they want to destroy the concepts they hate by corrupting them, changing the meaning of the words and leaving the concepts themselves without words and therefore without expression. Top that off with suppressing freedom of speech (which they are now openly campaigning against) and you've got a society in which those concepts have no words and can't be spoken and the words that used to be used for them mean the opposite. Equality, tolerance, liberalism - these are the things they seek to destroy and they're doing a very good job of that. Minitru would be proud of their achievement. Why on earth would they argue against themselves, against the things they want?
I made no attempt to define sex tho.
I simply stated the obvious - that a mutilated male is not a female
Any more than I can become a woman by losing a leg.You can make this as complex or simple as you want. I think for most of us the idea that a man who has his member inverted somehow turns into a woman is just not going to fly!
There is no need here to precisely define sex. As said, if all men on Earth were transmen and all women were transwomen, that would be the end of the human race.
So - regardless of what being a woman means precisely, we do know that a transwoman does not qualify. Ditto for transmen.
Let's put it another way - a small % of woman are infertile, but are still women. However 100% of transwomen are infertile (unable to perform the woman's reproductive role). That situation is far from being one and the same, as you are inferring.
Soldato
Well quite. As much as I enjoy discussing ideas at the extreme fringes of the political or social spectrum's, I continue to be open-mouthed at the fervour at which some declare their thoughts and the subscription to those ideas. Then again, whatever makes you happy; just do it quietly within your own four walls.
Man of Honour
You replied to a question about how you define sex by saying:
Well the most obvious one...
If all women on Earth were transwomen, and all men on Earth were transmen... we'd be royally ****ed
Which looks like an attempt to define sex.
I simply stated the obvious - that a mutilated male is not a female
But you don't know how to define sex. So how can you say who is male and who is female? That obviously requires defining sex. Either you do define sex or you don't. Can't have it both ways.
And nothing I've said is factually wrong. We don't need to precisely define sex to say that a man who inverts his penis is not a woman, but instead a mutilated man.
In just the same was as we have neurosurgeons performing life-saving operations, and yet we don't precisely understand how the brain works.
What we know is enough to draw a sound conclusion. A man inverting his penis does not become a woman.
Lastly if it wasn't obvious enough, there are several accounts of post-op men who now understand that they are/were all along simply gay men. If you read some of the interviews it's not uncommon for these people to say "I was rail-roaded into having the op, which I now regret. I realise now I am a gay man."
Unfortunately, rather than being a gay man in a woman's body, what they are now is gay men in mutilated men's bodies. Very sad, but this is what happens when you are afraid to call a mental disorder as such.
In just the same was as we have neurosurgeons performing life-saving operations, and yet we don't precisely understand how the brain works.
What we know is enough to draw a sound conclusion. A man inverting his penis does not become a woman.
Lastly if it wasn't obvious enough, there are several accounts of post-op men who now understand that they are/were all along simply gay men. If you read some of the interviews it's not uncommon for these people to say "I was rail-roaded into having the op, which I now regret. I realise now I am a gay man."
Unfortunately, rather than being a gay man in a woman's body, what they are now is gay men in mutilated men's bodies. Very sad, but this is what happens when you are afraid to call a mental disorder as such.
Soldato
Trans people have allowed the militant wing to hijack their cause with the objective of causing the destabilising of society rather than solving a problem.
You can, though, turn into a one-legged person by losing a leg. Just depends how you define a female, doesn't it?I simply stated the obvious - that a mutilated male is not a female
We're not in a position to precisely define male or female by exacting, true-or-false standards. If absolute proof is required, then none of us can prove that we are male or female. Yes? Then we're nowhere.
What I'm asserting is fairly straight-forward. You take a man, who has lived as a man for (eg) 30 years, raised a family (as a man), and been accepted into society as a man.
You then take this man and invert his penis.
Is that sufficient to make him a woman? Let's assume that he's secretly fancied men his whole life, but nothing on his medical record indicates a biological abnormality. Just for the sake of argument - I'm not suggesting this is correct in all such situations, or even typical. This is just a thought experiment if you like.
OK, so instead of embracing life as a homosexual, for whatever reason this guy decides he's actually a woman trapped in a man's body. He undergoes SRS, his his member removed and gets some fake baps shoved in.
And we're expected to say, "This is a woman."
Is no one prepared to accept that some such cases may be mental disorders rather than biological problems? And that you can't "fix" such problems by inverting your penis? Neither do you become a woman by doing so; esp if there was nothing biologically wrong with you as a man.
Soldato
You're highlighting a real problem that people suffer because society forces people to undergo dangerous and serious surgeries before they'll accept a person for who they are most comfortable presenting as.
Not all outwardly masculine people have a penis, and vice versa.
But a lot of people get hit will the "have you had 'the op' though?" and people don't accept someone who presents openly feminine traits but has a penis because these people feel you have to fit in one of their 'categories'
Not all outwardly masculine people have a penis, and vice versa.
But a lot of people get hit will the "have you had 'the op' though?" and people don't accept someone who presents openly feminine traits but has a penis because these people feel you have to fit in one of their 'categories'
Maybe it's also a problem to class certain traits as "masculine" and some as "feminine". Perhaps we shouldn't be talking about "feminine men", because that implies there is some kind of mix up going on; that certain behaviours are the domain of men or women exclusively or predominantly.
Perhaps the more you call out a bloke for "acting like a woman" the more you promote the idea in his head that he's "a woman trapped in a man's body", rather than a bloke who just likes ballet and flowers
I love flowers btw. But I will bench press anyone who says I'm not the manliest of alpha males in the entire multiverse. (This is of course a joke - I don't even lift, bro.)
Perhaps the more you call out a bloke for "acting like a woman" the more you promote the idea in his head that he's "a woman trapped in a man's body", rather than a bloke who just likes ballet and flowers
I love flowers btw. But I will bench press anyone who says I'm not the manliest of alpha males in the entire multiverse. (This is of course a joke - I don't even lift, bro.)
Expected to say, but we are free to disagree
It's just a man who had cosmetic surgery at the end of the day. Everything under the skin is unchanged and would still be identified as male if tested.
Soldato
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The correlation between sex and gender is .95+. People in the “wrong body” aren’t even minorities, they’re anomalies. The vast majority of those are happy to quietly transition or identify and present as the gender they feel they are.
It’s the vocal minority who insist (or even lobby for legislation) that we all smile and partake in their bizarre pantomime that **** me off. The ones that go out of their way to broadcast and revel in their dysfunction are unwell and need help, not stunning and brave.
It’s the vocal minority who insist (or even lobby for legislation) that we all smile and partake in their bizarre pantomime that **** me off. The ones that go out of their way to broadcast and revel in their dysfunction are unwell and need help, not stunning and brave.
Soldato
Sex: Yes Please