Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

MagicBoy · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:08

dLockers said:
Russia invaded a country to stop them joining NATO?

A country Russia states is run by Nazis. Jewish Nazis, who suffered genocide in WW2. Surely that would have been just the ticket to bring Nato down from within? :cry:

If it wasn't preposterous poppycock.

Chuk_Chuk · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:08

MagicBoy said:
With Putin still around, no chance. Sanctions will be there for a decade plus until the Russians can proved under a change of leadership that they can be trusted. Sanctions won't be undone and the doors flung open quickly as they were when the Soviet Union collapsed, as we can all see the result.

Then prepare for WW3 because there is no-way Putin or anyone else in their government are just going to roll over and take it.

Rroff · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:09

banbom44 said:
One thing to come out of this war is that its humbled the Russians a bit and give them a bloody nose so they will think twice about ever doing anything like this in the future.

As below it would be naive to think Russia is just going to roll over and take it. IMO we are being far too complacent about that part of the equation.

Chuk_Chuk said:
The prepare for WW3 because there is know way Putin or anyone else in their government are just going to roll over and take it.

MagicBoy · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:10

banbom44 said:
We need that Nord stream 2 up and running my bloody energy bill has doubled.

Yeah, sod the 40 million people who are being murdered by war criminals. :rolleyes:

banbom44 · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:10

MagicBoy said:
With Putin still around, no chance. Sanctions will be there for a decade plus until the Russians can proved under a change of leadership that they can be trusted. Sanctions won't be undone and the doors flung open quickly as they were when the Soviet Union collapsed, as we can all see the result.

We can't cope without their gas and oil Boris and Joe Biden are desperate to bring fuel costs down which is driving up inflation.

MagicBoy · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:10

Chuk_Chuk said:
The prepare for WW3 because there is know way Putin or anyone else in their government are just going to roll over and take it.

See my previous post about wiggle room.

Blackjack Davy · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:11

Amnesia said:
Their goal is to stop Ukraine from joining Nato, this was said very early on right at the start of the invasion. It just got drowned out by all the anti Russian rhetoric.

Are you seriously defending Putin's actions?

banbom44 · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:12

MagicBoy said:
Yeah, sod the 40 million people who are being murdered by war criminals.

Being realistic mate the cost of living crisis is being made a lot worse by this war and a settlement is in everybody's best interests.

MagicBoy · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:13

Werewolf said:
It was one of the claims, others from memory being that it was to stop the genocide of the Russian ethnic group, or that it was to denzify the Ukraine, it really depended on which of the official Russian causes for them invading a sovereign country you wanted to believe, and which hour you paid attention to the Russian lies.

IIRC the exact claim was more to stop Nato putting weapons on the Russian border, which kind of ignored the other Nato countries that were on the Russian border.

They just flung load of **** at the wall and hoped some would stick for the internal audience. The US basically leaking all their plans and saying "they're gonna pull some false flag nonsense" as a pretext to invade, called them out on it before a shot was fired. So they had to just invade anyway.

MagicBoy · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:14

banbom44 said:
Being realistic mate the cost of living crisis is being made a lot worse by this war and a settlement is in everybody's best interests.

Being realistic mate, anyone with their head screwed on is more bothered about WW3 kicking off than an extra £40 on the gas bill a month.

arknor · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:14

banbom44 said:
So in the end Ukraine will be a neutral country with security guarantees it was never going to join NATO anyway and its far too corrupt to be let into the EU.

It's going to end up a much smaller country for sure.

I wonder if it manages to maintain a coastline or becomes totally landlocked

Chuk_Chuk · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:15

MagicBoy said:
See my previous post about wiggle room.

My point still stands, sanctions cannot continue (without leading to WW3) just because Ukraine doesn't join NATO.
A lack of resource and a country "dying" will inevitably lead to war.

lookitsjonno · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:17

Give it 6 months after a 'Peace agreement' is reached, Russia will drop their pants on gas and oil prices and the west will be back

Uther · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:19

American embassy in Kyiv is reporting that the Russians shot ten people queuing up to buy bread in Chernihev

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504074846342418434

Amnesia · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:19

Blackjack Davy said:
Are you seriously defending Putin's actions?

Would you prefer me to jump on the bandwagon and spam unrealistic twitter posts ?
I'm just trying to have a more realistic discussion.

Chuk_Chuk · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:19

MagicBoy said:
Yeah, sod the 40 million people who are being murdered by war criminals.

Would you be willing to have a full blown oil crisis because of the 30 million people being murdered over in Yemen?

Puzzled · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:20

MagicBoy said:
Being realistic mate, anyone with their head screwed on is more bothered about WW3 kicking off than an extra £40 on the gas bill a month.

Its a lot more than £40 extra a month and not everyone can afford it. If a way can be found to end this through negotiation that doesn't screw over Ukraine then its in all of our interests that they take it. The sanctions will likely be reversed sooner than people expect if an agreement is made as this cost of living crisis is really going to hurt.

banbom44 · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:20

arknor said:
It's going to end up a much smaller country for sure.

I wonder if it manages to maintain a coastline or becomes totally landlocked

He will have to recognize Crimea as being part of Russia and maybe give up the Donbas but i don't think they will want that anyway more trouble than its worth and its a ruin now anyway.

dlockers · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:22

Amnesia said:
Would you prefer me to jump on the bandwagon and spam unrealistic twitter posts ?
I'm just trying to have a more realistic discussion.

Here we go bois, another "the other side of the argument" comrade :cry:

"Its all about the subtleties of the situation which only make sense if you just, for a second, consider ignoring the big picture entirely"

MagicBoy · 16 Mar 2022 at 13:22

Chuk_Chuk said:
My point still stands, sanctions cannot continue (without leading to WW3) just because Ukraine doesn't join NATO.
A lack of resource and a country "dying" will inevitably lead to war.

Pick your sanctions. I'm not saying the current Special Economic Operation will continue as is, but Russian government can't be trusted. That trust after there's a leadership change (as Putin isn't immortal) needs to be earned back.

In the meantime EU/West will invest to find long term alternatives to Russian fossil fuels and will spend more on defence and election security. Cause we got caught with our pants down on a number of fronts.