Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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mohawk said:
now that both russia and ukraine have basically said the peace talks are pointless, is there any reason why ukraine dont try and join nato?
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Probably because they don't want their cheeks getting clapped any harder than they already are. Any move toward joining NATO means Putin goes full Grozny.
 
NATO also wouldn't let a country join while it's still at war. All territorial disputes need to be resolved before joining (otherwise joining NATO would effectively be bringing them into the conflict directly), unless they made an almighty exception I suppose...
 
No amount of emotional harassment will get the membership of NATO to sign off on going to war for Ukraine.

Which is the automatic state they'd be in by allowing in a country at war.

Countries are mostly helping Ukraine because they hate Russia, don't get mistaken.
 
The best thing the Ukraine could have done was to give in, which sounds horrible but it's the truth.

We're not really helping them, just giving them false hope and dragging out the war, the longer it goes on, more Ukrainians will die and more of their infrastructure and end up destroyed.

Well they may see us favourably in the short term, when it's all said and done and they look back at the cost.... They may resent us...
 
Shocky-FM said:
The best thing for the Ukraine could have done was to give in, which sounds horrible but it's the truth.

We're not really helping them, just giving them false hope and dragging out the war, the longer it goes on, more Ukrainians will die and more of their infrastructure and end up destroyed.

Well they may see us favourably in the short term, when it's all said and done and they look back at the cost.... They may resent us...
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seriously? like the world gave in to hitler etc? should've just given in. Eh. Sit down and think about it.
 
grudas said:
seriously? like the world gave in to hitler etc? should've just given in. Eh. Sit down and think about it.
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It's not a NATO country, we're never going to get directly involved. The west will sacrifice them if it avoids WW3, at the cost of Ukraine lives, their homes and infrastructure.

Nuclear weapons weren't a thing back then and the UN never existed, the "League of Nations" was a thing but was missing a lot of countries, including the U.S.

The big test will be if Russia invade a NATO country, but I highly doubt they'd attempt it. It gets complicated if they're not part the alliance, there will be exceptions, I'm sure, it's about weighing up the price.

Would you really start WW3 over the Ukraine?
 
Shocky-FM said:
The best thing for the Ukraine could have done was to give in, which sounds horrible but it's the truth.

We're not really helping them, just giving them false hope and dragging out the war, the longer it goes on, more Ukrainians will die and more of their infrastructure and end up destroyed.

Well they may see us favourably in the short term, when it's all said and done and they look back at the cost.... They may resent us...
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That was a decision for the Ukrainians to make, and given the way Russia has been heading for a long time I doubt it was an appealing one. It's also one they already "declined" back in 2014.

Given the Ukranians seem to have liked their freedom and democracy, I doubt they would have been happy under Putin's rules as he and his buddies looted everything

It's not any countries right to say what should happen to another, all we can do is support those that ask for our help to protect themselves from invasion and subjugation from a hostile neighbour.
 
Shocky-FM said:
The best thing the Ukraine could have done was to give in, which sounds horrible but it's the truth.

We're not really helping them, just giving them false hope and dragging out the war, the longer it goes on, more Ukrainians will die and more of their infrastructure and end up destroyed.

Well they may see us favourably in the short term, when it's all said and done and they look back at the cost.... They may resent us...
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Complete tosh.

Should Britain have given in to Hitler? Etc etc....
 
Good article here: 'Putin's fascists: The Russian state's long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis.' Makes a complete mockery of Putin's claim to be 'de-Nazifying' Ukraine.

In 2008-09, the Kremlin was threatened by Russian opposition activist Alexei Navalny's efforts to build an anti-Putin coalition of democrats and radical nationalists in Russia. In response, the Kremlin began to work with Russkii Obraz ("Russian Image", or "RO" for short), a hardcore neo-Nazi group best known for its slick journal and its band, Hook from the Right.

With the assistance of Kremlin supervisors, RO attacked nationalists who were abandoning the skinhead subculture for Navalny's anti-Putin coalition. In return, RO was granted privileged access to public space and the media.

Its leaders held televised public discussions with state functionaries and collaborated openly with Maksim Mishchenko, a member of parliament from the ruling party. Perhaps most shockingly, RO also hosted a concert by the infamous neo-Nazi band Kolovrat in Moscow's Bolotnaya Square, within earshot of the Kremlin.

The problem for the Kremlin was that RO's leader, Ilya Goryachev, was a fervent supporter of the neo-Nazi underground, the skinheads who committed hundreds of racist murders in the second half of the 2000s. The authorities turned a blind eye to RO's production of a two-hour internet "documentary" titled Russian Resistance, which celebrated these killers as patriotic heroes and called for armed struggle against the regime.

But they could not ignore the arrest on murder charges of Nikita Tikhonov, an ex-skinhead and cofounder of RO. Tikhonov was the leader of BORN ("Fighting Organisation of Russian Nationalists"), a terrorist group that committed a string of murders of public figures and antifa militants.

The victims included the renowned human rights lawyer Stanislav Markelov and journalist Anastasia Baburova. Tikhonov was convicted of their murders in 2011. The police investigation revealed that Goryachev regarded BORN and RO as the armed and political platforms of a neo-Nazi insurgency, on the model of the IRA and Sinn Féin in Ireland and Northern Ireland.

The court materials show that as Goryachev was reporting to his Kremlin supervisors, he was also advising Tikhonov about the choice of murder victims. Goryachev was found guilty in 2015 of ordering the murders of numerous people, including Markelov.
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Shocky-FM said:
The best thing the Ukraine could have done was to give in, which sounds horrible but it's the truth.

We're not really helping them, just giving them false hope and dragging out the war, the longer it goes on, more Ukrainians will die and more of their infrastructure and end up destroyed.

Well they may see us favourably in the short term, when it's all said and done and they look back at the cost.... They may resent us...
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lol
 
Werewolf said:
That was a decision for the Ukrainians to make, and given the way Russia has been heading for a long time I doubt it was an appealing one. It's also one they already "declined" back in 2014.

Given the Ukranians seem to have liked their freedom and democracy, I doubt they would have been happy under Putin's rules as he and his buddies looted everything

It's not any countries right to say what should happen to another, all we can do is support those that ask for our help to protect themselves from invasion and subjugation from a hostile neighbour.
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Their choice, I completely agree. But at what cost?

I don't know that it's worth it for them, neither outcome is desirable.
 
Shocky-FM said:
The best thing the Ukraine could have done was to give in, which sounds horrible but it's the truth.

We're not really helping them, just giving them false hope and dragging out the war, the longer it goes on, more Ukrainians will die and more of their infrastructure and end up destroyed.

Well they may see us favourably in the short term, when it's all said and done and they look back at the cost.... They may resent us...
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Then Putin could have gone full-KGB and full-Stalin relocated anyone who didn't tow the line, looks wrong, was a class enemy, or anyone who spoke Ukrainian (because the doctrine may have been that all nationalities are equal but some are more equal than others), or any other made up reason.

The Dayton peace process stopped the Bosnian war but almost nobody has ever dared to go back; leaving Putin in charge of Ukraine would be like having Mladić in charge of Bosnia: nobody would ever dare to go back home.
 
How is this going to go down? I would normally say not important but election soon...

BBC said:
Le Pen calls for stronger Nato-Russia relations
Russia's President Putin hosts Marine Le Pen at the Kremlin in 2017

The far-right politician met Russia's President Putin in 2017Image caption: The far-right politician met Russia's President Putin in 2017

French presidential candidate Marine Le Pen says she will propose closer relations between Nato and Russia if she wins power.

At a news conference, the far-right politician called for a “strategic rapprochement” between the two once the war in Ukraine was over.

She added that she would pull France out of Nato’s military command structure, if she proved victorious.

But she said she would continue to respect a key Nato pact under which an attack on one member of the military alliance is seen as an attack on all 30 members.
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KompuKare said:
Then Putin could have gone full-KGB and full-Stalin relocated anyone who didn't tow the line, looks wrong, was a class enemy, or anyone who spoke Ukrainian (because the doctrine may have been that all nationalities are equal but some are more equal than others), or any other made up reason.

The Dayton peace process stopped the Bosnian war but almost nobody has ever dared to go back; leaving Putin in charge of Ukraine would be like having Mladić in charge of Bosnia: nobody would ever dare to go back home.
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Might happen anyway to the civilians that remain, or maybe worse as a result of them continuing to resist.

dLockers said:
lol
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lol
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Real mature.
 
Shocky-FM said:
Their choice, I completely agree. But at what cost?

I don't know that it's worth it for them, neither outcome is desirable.
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Why do you think Russia will stop at Ukraine?

They lied many times before about their objectives. If they had kept in the Donbass region I doubt all this would have escalated as much. But at the same time Putin was talking about Donbass he was pre-planning the attack on Ukraine itself along side Belarus.

They have already been showing plans to invade other countries.

Russian rhetoric against Finland and Sweden is a prime example. Instead of projecting a peaceful message to those countries Putin as immediately threatened them.
 
VortexA1 said:
You know what.

I bet you Russia are going to attack Finland. :( :eek:

I know it sounds crazy ,but this rhetoric about not wanting NATO on his borders, he is going to get NATO on his border if Finland joins them and that is now Finlands definite plan.

It's all scary etc but this is like ww2 all over again. I bet you.
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If that was the case then Russia wouldn't go anywhere near Finland. :D
 
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