Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Colonel_Klinck said:
I don't know why Hungary is still in the EU as its an illiberal democracy at this point and it isn't really on board in NATO either.
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Multiple reasons:

1. Because leaders are temporary and you hope for change
2. Because if you removed Hungary you don't have a continuous land mass between the continental EU nations.
3. Because you need general agreement to do anything.
4. Because it is economically important to some neighbouring countries.
5. Because it is the final escalation, and they haven't been through all the stages yet.

Probably there are others.
 
HungryHippos said:
They had a stock of them before the war.

They are also making more all the time, though by all reports not that quickly, they still have some capability to keep making them.
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They ran out, they are now being supplied by Brics countries and have a production line still making small amounts.

I would assume North Korea is their biggest supplier just now, the trains are seen entering Russia all the time. Iran is openly sending them drones and China will have a back door to them.
 
Stu999 said:
Was wondering about Ukraine's 'expedited' NATO membership but Germany reckons not until after there is peace with Russia. Huge cop out.

www.channel4.com

Ukraine’s Nato membership will be decided ‘after they have peace with Russia’, says German MP

We spoke to the German MP Alexander Muller, he's the defence policy spokesman for the liberal FDP party which is part of the government coalition.
www.channel4.com www.channel4.com
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That is because countries at war cannot join NATO otherwise it catapults the whole organisation into the conflict.
As soon as it ends, it will be expedited.
 
bris said:
They ran out, they are now being supplied by Brics countries and have a production line still making small amounts.
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It will be interesting how BRICs countries and other allies play into Russia's tank shortage.

China use proprietary tanks so they can't sell them any as plausible deniability would be impossible. What they could do is sell tanks to the nations below with Russia footing the bill and have those nations ship the older tanks being replaced to Russia "for decommissioning".

India produce the T-90 under license so could potentially build them for Russia, in addition they have thousands of T-90 and thousands of T-72 in service so could conceivably supply their own tanks to Russia and use the money to build more Arjun tanks than planned (their domestically designed/produced successor to the T-90). One interesting factor here is that their T-72s were modernised by Russia, Poland, France and Israel. So if they sent some to Russia it may result in bizarre tank battles with both sides using Polish T-72s.

Iran produce the T-72 under license so could potentially build them for Russia, in addition they have thousands of T-72 in service so could conceivably supply their own tanks to Russia and use the money to build more Karrar tanks than planned (their domestically designed/produced successor to the T-72). One interesting factor here is that they started designing the Karrar after Moscow declined to licence them to produce T-90s, given Russia's current desperation in the tank dept this may be up for review. It should also be noted that Iran also have hundreds of T-72Z tanks, despite the name these are just heavily modernized T-55s (though potentially in a better state of maintenance and capability than the T-62M Russia have been sending in so even these may be on the table).

North Korea are not in Brics but Brazil don't have anything worth discussing, NK on the other hand have roughly five thousand assorted T-55 and T-62 tanks, the latter of which they produce under licence. In addition they have a number of T-72s they purchased after Moscow declined to sell them T-90s. It's conceivable Russia may offer a T-72 production licence and even the promise of future T-90 sales in exchange for producing them tanks.

Obviously these are all "what ifs" but they are plausible avenues for Putin to explore if he intends to press on with the war, and it appears he does.
 
ubersonic said:
It will be interesting how BRICs countries and other allies play into Russia's tank shortage.

China use proprietary tanks so they can't sell them any as plausible deniability would be impossible. What they could do is sell tanks to the nations below with Russia footing the bill and have those nations ship the older tanks being replaced to Russia "for decommissioning".

India produce the T-90 under license so could potentially build them for Russia, in addition they have thousands of T-90 and thousands of T-72 in service so could conceivably supply their own tanks to Russia and use the money to build more Arjun tanks than planned (their domestically designed/produced successor to the T-90). One interesting factor here is that their T-72s were modernised by Russia, Poland, France and Israel. So if they sent some to Russia it may result in bizarre tank battles with both sides using Polish T-72s.

Iran produce the T-72 under license so could potentially build them for Russia, in addition they have thousands of T-72 in service so could conceivably supply their own tanks to Russia and use the money to build more Karrar tanks than planned (their domestically designed/produced successor to the T-72). One interesting factor here is that they started designing the Karrar after Moscow declined to licence them to produce T-90s, given Russia's current desperation in the tank dept this may be up for review. It should also be noted that Iran also have hundreds of T-72Z tanks, despite the name these are just heavily modernized T-55s (though potentially in a better state of maintenance and capability than the T-62M Russia have been sending in so even these may be on the table).

North Korea are not in Brics but Brazil don't have anything worth discussing, NK on the other hand have roughly five thousand assorted T-55 and T-62 tanks, the latter of which they produce under licence. In addition they have a number of T-72s they purchased after Moscow declined to sell them T-90s. It's conceivable Russia may offer a T-72 production licence and even the promise of future T-90 sales in exchange for producing them tanks.

Obviously these are all "what ifs" but they are plausible avenues for Putin to explore if he intends to press on with the war, and it appears he does.
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I think people underestimate how much Russia could ramp up tank production if they went to a full mobilisation albeit ironically they probably have to increasingly rely on those you listed for advanced parts.

Currently much of their tank production capibilities are more focused on bringing older tanks back into service than making new ones.
 
India would be mad to sell tanks to Russia. Their IT (and other) industry would be decimated by sanctions and withdrawal of business from the West. The west will turn a blind eye to them buying cheap oil from Russia, but tanks are way over the line.
 
The moment India provides Russia with any weapons, esp tanks is the moment it is on the wests "bad" list. As soon as that happens India will lose billions as Western companies and governments start to pull out. It's in a similar situation as China. It dare'nt P*** off the west else it's economy is screwed. Now while russia can make more T-72 and the like it cannot get ready access to the chips and optics needed to make T-90's and upgraded T-72,T-80.
 
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