As mentioned before, it wasn't drafted to avoid such an obligation as that was the very obligation agreed upon (that the US/UK and thus NATO would come to Ukraine's aid if Russia ever invaded them or threatened to nuke them) however due to a missing comma in the document signed it only commits us to intervene if Russia nukes them or threatens to nuke them. As such no UK/US politicians are going to stand by what was originally agreed when we have a free get out option.
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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No, that's incorrect, see the previous post and the jstor link.
We can throw in another one too:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/01/what-budapest-memorandum-means-us-ukraine/
Nothing to do with a comma rather there is no enforcement mechanism in the first place.
What "missing" comma are you referring to and why would that change anything?
So if there's no treaty....
Russia invades, when Ukraine rebels call for help, after a few days...
NATO does nothing....
Putin accepts surrender after another week.
Life goes on... For most of us..
1000s of idiots call for escalation and nuclear war.
Biden is in charge of USA... Lol weakest president for ever... USA get embarrassed Infront of the world.
Russia invades, when Ukraine rebels call for help, after a few days...
NATO does nothing....
Putin accepts surrender after another week.
Life goes on... For most of us..
1000s of idiots call for escalation and nuclear war.
Biden is in charge of USA... Lol weakest president for ever... USA get embarrassed Infront of the world.
Russia get put on naughty step for a few months, Gas supplies from Russia to Europe stop, gas prices rise even more, millions unable to heat homes, riots on the streets, police crackdown, Tories forced out of office, Election, Labour wins, not much changes?
Soldato
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...petitions to join the Russian Federation.
It isn't, we made an agreement with Ukraine that we would come to their aid if Russia invaded them or threatened to nuke them in return for their nuclear disarmament. They signed what they believed (and depending on sources what our politicians believed) was a written agreement to those ends, however due to ambiguous wording (many believe caused by a missing comma) the actual text that was signed only commits us to assist if they are nuked or threatened with nukes.
What you're linking is just fluff by US media to give the impression it was never intended as a promise to aid against Russian aggression, in order to back the US governments opinion/stance on the matter.
For reference, the text in question reads:
The general consensus is that the oddly worded text was supposed to read:
Basically we will help them if they are attacked, or threatened with nukes. This is what Ukraine claimed was originally agreed upon and makes more sense as there would have been no need to commit to aiding them if they get nuked if you're also committing to aid them against the threat of being nuked.
Here's the comical thing, if NATO or the EU do do something to aid Ukraine against Russia then under the Budapest memorandum as Ukraine will have formed an alliance or association with a nuclear power then Russia is within it's rights to use nuclear weapons against Ukraine with no fear of US/UK response, as long as Ukraine initiate "an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies".
It really was a **** tier document xD
Soldato
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Like send them weapons & supplies and offer training for those weapons ?
Some impressive footage from the Nuclear drills today
The same Macron who promised that Putin had agreed not to attack last week ? Why bother speaking to him ?
I've laughed a few times today. That was pretty good though.
I mean.. really???
never mind.
yeah? if your country decides to go to war based on a treaty, then the opposition should support that government, that document?
maybe im an idealist ?
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Putin quite rightly sees the EU as fragmented and weak, Germany, the major EU player, has decided to throw their fuel supplies on Russia's mercy, so they almost apologetically offer only medical aid to Ukraine. The EU need the unanimity of all 27 EU countries in order to impose sanctions and even then that must be discussed with the US and other Western allies.
Like most huge conglomerates by the time a decision is reached and ratified it's too late. One only has to see the EU's initial performance in buying vaccines when China let the cat out of the bag.
Personally I can quite understand Putin wanting as big a ditch between the EU and their borderless dreams, NATO countries, (not that the EU put their hands in their pockets very deeply to support it), and his country as possible. The EU is looking its usual ineffective mess under pressure, and the US have got a senile and easily manipulated old duffer at the helm...Macron is looking for self aggrandisement, whether to woo the voters in France or his wife / mother figure I am not sure.
The UK has already shown how weak it is with how they have bitten their tongue over the origins of the virus and our zero sanctions against China. At least Trump tried to rein in those he perceived alien to the USA's best interests.
Putin holds the cards, knows it, and deserves them given how pathetic and anti nationalistic the west has become.
Like most huge conglomerates by the time a decision is reached and ratified it's too late. One only has to see the EU's initial performance in buying vaccines when China let the cat out of the bag.
Personally I can quite understand Putin wanting as big a ditch between the EU and their borderless dreams, NATO countries, (not that the EU put their hands in their pockets very deeply to support it), and his country as possible. The EU is looking its usual ineffective mess under pressure, and the US have got a senile and easily manipulated old duffer at the helm...Macron is looking for self aggrandisement, whether to woo the voters in France or his wife / mother figure I am not sure.
The UK has already shown how weak it is with how they have bitten their tongue over the origins of the virus and our zero sanctions against China. At least Trump tried to rein in those he perceived alien to the USA's best interests.
Putin holds the cards, knows it, and deserves them given how pathetic and anti nationalistic the west has become.
Spiegel did a quick overview of the whole NATO expansion promise. Interesting read, for whomever is interested - https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...-right-a-bf318d2c-7aeb-4b59-8d5f-1d8c94e1964d
At this point we're struggling to get along even with Ukranians
Here's the thing that gets me about Putin/etc moaning about NATO "expansion".
Since Putin came to power the following countries who were former Soviet republics (or parts of) have joined NATO: Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania, Croatia, Montenegro, North Macedonia. Now NATO didn't call those countries and ask if they wanted in, they called NATO because they saw Putin's vision for a resurgent Russia and decided that having spent the majority of the 20th century conquered and ruled by Russia they would prefer to try and avoid that happening again.
Essentially the vast majority of NATOs eastern expansion is Putin's fault lol.
Soldato
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It's supposedly outgoing artillery, there's another video of the mobile artillery moving around Donetsk, presumably they'll fire a few salvo and relocate
What's more worrying today is most of the footage of Russian based vehicle columns are all marked with a Z which presumably is IFF markings which means invasion
It has certainly encourage the rebels in Ukraine to throw caution to the wind to the supposed ceasefire
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