Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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It’s worked out so well every time the US has looked inward.

fastwunz said:
Lots of stuff flying about the usual social media platforms saying that Russia are now offering ‘talks’ with the proposal that a buffer zone is put in place, they keep the land they have taken and it all stops. (I am not offering any form of opinion here - just stating what I have heard so please don’t start laying into me).
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Take it and then get Ukraine into NATO. Of course Russia will want such anti NATO guarantees, so talks are pointless. Russians can’t be trusted, so anything other than Ukraine into NATO doesn’t work.
 
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fastwunz said:
Lots of stuff flying about the usual social media platforms saying that Russia are now offering ‘talks’ with the proposal that a buffer zone is put in place, they keep the land they have taken and it all stops. (I am not offering any form of opinion here - just stating what I have heard so please don’t start laying into me).
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"Talks" have been done to death many times in this thread. Putin can't trusted to keep his word. Just look at the 2014 invasion, Budapest memorandum etc. Its always a stalling tactic and/or blatant trolling.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
It’s worked out so well every time the US has looked inward.



Take it and then get Ukraine into NATO. Of course Russia will want such anti NATO guarantees, so talks are pointless. Russians can’t be trusted, so anything other than Ukraine into NATO doesn’t work.
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And keep the sanctions or give the land back.

The “buffer zone” will probably be most of Eastern Europe.
 
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fastwunz said:
Lots of stuff flying about the usual social media platforms saying that Russia are now offering ‘talks’ with the proposal that a buffer zone is put in place, they keep the land they have taken and it all stops. (I am not offering any form of opinion here - just stating what I have heard so please don’t start laying into me).
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It is another **** deal, they are wanting Ukraine to give up Khakiv and Odesa as buffer zones as well, replace Zelensky with a leader they have a veto in choosing, agree not to join NATO but can pursue joining the EU, etc. ultimately engineered to hand over the whole country to Russia. Seems to be aimed at hoping there will be a mutiny replacing Zelensky by those in the Ukraine government and military who short sightedly think it would end the war.
 
fastwunz said:
Lots of stuff flying about the usual social media platforms saying that Russia are now offering ‘talks’ with the proposal that a buffer zone is put in place, they keep the land they have taken and it all stops. (I am not offering any form of opinion here - just stating what I have heard so please don’t start laying into me).
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Russia offers talks as a distraction. They can use them to peel off Ukraine supporting countries by offering concessions they have no intention of honouring. It can be a delaying tactic, or chucking up loads of dust to distract from reality.

If former supporters drop support for Ukraine it is very damaging to their credibility in the long run.

I don't see any way out of continuing support for Ukraine. We're too far in to stop now.
 
Problem is the US has for some considerable time stoped all support, who knows when it or even if it will, start up again.

The EU is still squabbling, see Greece,France etc over munitions.

The reminder have scraped the barrels already.

I don't trust the vatniks but Ukraine are now very much up against it now without better support and sharpish.

Difficult decision for the Ukrainian leadership.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
It’s worked out so well every time the US has looked inward.



Take it and then get Ukraine into NATO. Of course Russia will want such anti NATO guarantees, so talks are pointless. Russians can’t be trusted, so anything other than Ukraine into NATO doesn’t work.
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Dangerous and very complicated. The world would have to agree the new boarders for Ukraine. The Russian land bridge remains and Putin will not stop.

Ukraine and Moldova joins the EU and NATO first. Russia pay reparations, withdraw from Kaliningrad and the Suwałki gap is closed. Belarus are cut free and its nuclear weapons handed over to Poland. Putin is sent to the Hague to face trial and his cronies investigated.

Tucker Carlson becomes a Russian citizen and is made head of poop canals.
 
The Funktopus said:
The takeaway from this ****-show is if you have nukes, keep them no matter what, if you don’t have nukes, get them as soon as possible. The only law that matters is the law of the jungle.
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Nuclear weapons only matter if you're willing to use them, I'm not sure any leader in the world would actually sign off on a nuclear first strike due to the consequences being your own country also gets annihilated, which makes them basically pointless and brings us back to conventional weapons being far more important.
 
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Roar87 said:
Nuclear weapons only matter if you're willing to use them, I'm not sure any leader in the world would actually sign off on a nuclear first strike due to the consequences being your own country also gets annihilated, which makes them basically pointless and brings us back to conventional weapons being far more important.
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So you’re saying Russia would still have invaded Ukraine, even if they still had their nukes?
 
Thekwango said:
So you’re saying Russia would still have invaded Ukraine, even if they still had their nukes?
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It's absolutely possible yes, Ukraine has attacked Moscow and areas inside Russia in this conflict and Russia has nuclear weapons. Maybe Russia would've used a different strategy, as in trickle troops into contested areas and slowly escalate fighting rather than the massive attack, but they would have simply changed the nature of the conflict rather than stopped it.
 
fastwunz said:
Lots of stuff flying about the usual social media platforms saying that Russia are now offering ‘talks’ with the proposal that a buffer zone is put in place, they keep the land they have taken and it all stops. (I am not offering any form of opinion here - just stating what I have heard so please don’t start laying into me).
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You never know with Russia but at this point they must know they have zero credibility when it comes honouring proposals and keeping their word.
 
fastwunz said:
Lots of stuff flying about the usual social media platforms saying that Russia are now offering ‘talks’ with the proposal that a buffer zone is put in place, they keep the land they have taken and it all stops.
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That would be of more than zero consideration, if it were not for the fact that such "talks" would be headed up by Sergei Lavrov, to Soviet/Russian minister who also negotiated the Budapest memorandum where Russia promised never to try and influence Ukrainian politics, to respect their borders, and to never use force against them.

We're at the point now where Russia have lied and broken promises so often/egregiously that they can simply never be trusted to negotiate on this matter in good faith.


Colonel_Klinck said:
Its amazing that some people think this conflict started in 2022, it started in 2014, 2022 was just an escalation as Putin tried and failed to take Kiev. .
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With all due respect, that's not even remotely what I was saying nor implying.


Sankari said:
I've never claimed that.
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I never said you did I was referring to the misconception in general.


Sankari said:
You haven't given a single example of this.
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I gave three, let me repute.

  1. When Putin decided to go into Syria and be a badass, and Trump decided to blow up a Syrian base full of Russians so told Putin to get his guys out but not to warn the Syrians/Iranians or he wouldn't get a warning next time. It along with the other stuff Trump pulled in Syria made Putin look like a total wimp in the eyes of the Syrians/Iranians who he was trying to flex to and severely damaged his image/reputation/prestige in the area.
  2. When Putin convinced Erdoğan to buy S-400 SAMs (a decision I'm sure he is in no way regretting now lol), and Trump threatened to eject Turkey from the F-35 program if they went through with it, they called his bluff and Trump followed through. Destroying Putin's plans for increasing/expanding his weapons industries reach and costing him billions as it was now established that you can't be a US customer and a Russian customer, you have to pick. Unsurprisingly most of the countries Putin had been courting decided to go/stick with team USA leaving Putin with egg on his face and a hole in his pocket.
  3. And of course you have the huge example that Trump was president for four years and in those four years Putin didn't invade Ukraine. Under Obama he annexed Crimea and shored up the rebels in Donetsk/Luhansk, under Biden he invaded the country proper at the first opportunity and tried to take the capital. Yet under Trump he sat there for four years twiddling his thumbs and watching Ukraine rearm to defend against a potential invasion.
You're fully entitled to your opinion that he's only saying he prefers Biden because he really want's Trump and it's that transparent. But I'm also entitled to my opinion that there's a quite considerable chance Putin would genuinely rather spend the next four years dealing with an adversarial yet consistent/predictable Biden than dealing with a loose cannon who praises him one minute then ****s all over his plans the next, again.
 
Thekwango said:
So you’re saying Russia would still have invaded Ukraine, even if they still had their nukes?
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No chance.

In fact, they wouldn't have even needed their nukes to prevent invasion, if Ukraine hadn't scrapped the hundreds of SRBM (Scuds, etc) capable of reaching Moscow they had (along with the launchers, support vehicles, factory lines for producing more) at the behest of the Obama administration it's likely Putin would never have had the balls to invade. This is presumably why Biden is such a staunch supporter of Ukraine, he knows it wouldn't be happening if Putin hadn't tricked him into helping weaken Ukraine.
 
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