Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Status
Not open for further replies.
Soldato
Joined
1 Apr 2014
Posts
18,642
Location
Aberdeen
Oof. Sending those T-62’s into the frontline in the face of an opponent armed with the likes of Javelin, NLAW, and AT-4’s, plus tanks that are a generation or more ahead of the of T62 is akin to throwing baby Barn Owls into a running industrial fan.

I expect every military and every defence contractor around the world is going to be very interested in how long they survive.
 
Associate
Joined
30 Jun 2016
Posts
320
Weapons and heavy weapons are not the same thing. I wish Germany would be more rapid and active in sending heavy weapons (and that the Swiss weren't blocking stuff, and that the French would step up more, etc.) but it's just not true that Germany haven't sent any weapons, millions of rounds of ammunition, rifles, anti-tank weapons, grenades, etc. have all been sent, along with ammunition for the howitzers sent by Holland. Germany did follow decades of established policy in rejecting initial transfer requests, but that was swiftly reversed within days of the war starting, as were rules preventing Germany sending direct military aid.

Like many of Western Europe's leaders, Scholz is clear that his top priority is preventing an escalation into a war between NATO and Russia, well ahead of ensuring that Ukraine wins. That doesn't mean that Germany is doing nothing.

This is the most up to date chart of military aid I can find:

i0slhVh.png

A breakdown of some of the German deliveries is on Wikipedia

Those numbers include the heavy weapons that Scholz has promised but hasn't delivered. The wikipedia as well.
edit: I'm not saying Germany isn't doing anything, it's Scholz empty (heavy weapon) promises that's putting Scholz in a bad light.

 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
30 Jan 2007
Posts
15,438
Location
PA, USA (Orig UK)
"#Switzerland has banned #Germany from supplying #Ukraine with Swiss-made ammunition The veto concerns, among other things, ammunition for the "Gepard" self-propelled air defense systems, the Swiss State Secretariat for Economic Affairs said, citing the country's neutrality."

This is somewhat ridiculous. If they were neutral, they wouldn't sell weapons in the first place. Now they are trying to dictate where/when they are used /facepalm.

^^ This tweet is from April, but it still baffles me, as it is related to the German supply of weapons to Ukraine.
 
Associate
Joined
30 Jun 2016
Posts
320
"#Switzerland has banned #Germany from supplying #Ukraine with Swiss-made ammunition The veto concerns, among other things, ammunition for the "Gepard" self-propelled air defense systems, the Swiss State Secretariat for Economic Affairs said, citing the country's neutrality."

This is somewhat ridiculous. If they were neutral, they wouldn't sell weapons in the first place. Now they are trying to dictate where/when they are used /facepalm.

^^ This tweet is from April, but it still baffles me, as it is related to the German supply of weapons to Ukraine.

It's also noted Brazil would provide shells for those instead, but those Gepards still havn't been delivered..
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Dec 2011
Posts
5,449
Location
Belfast
I takes a long time to negotiate these things and it is never simply black and white. Germany wanted to send the Gepard but could not because the Oerlikon cannons it uses are a Swiss design, that use Swiss supplied ammunition. So they had to seek an alternative source for the ammunition.

It's much easier for many (not you) to post memes about Germany = bad and UK = good. Yet we can all see the bulk of the weapon and financial support comes from the USA. As usual the EU/UK are slow to act with mostly rhetoric. "We will fight them on the beaches... with American weapons".
 
Soldato
Joined
10 May 2012
Posts
10,062
Location
Leeds
I takes a long time to negotiate these things and it is never simply black and white. Germany wanted to send the Gepard but could not because the Oerlikon cannons it uses are a Swiss design, that use Swiss supplied ammunition. So they had to seek an alternative source for the ammunition.

It's much easier for many (not you) to post memes about Germany = bad and UK = good. Yet we can all see the bulk of the weapon and financial support comes from the USA. As usual the EU/UK are slow to act with mostly rhetoric. "We will fight them on the beaches... with American weapons".

Yeah the US has this massive advantage of being a military and economic super power able to fight Russia and China on it's own if push came to shove, Europe is pretty weak militarily.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
Posts
91,168
I takes a long time to negotiate these things and it is never simply black and white. Germany wanted to send the Gepard but could not because the Oerlikon cannons it uses are a Swiss design, that use Swiss supplied ammunition. So they had to seek an alternative source for the ammunition.

It's much easier for many (not you) to post memes about Germany = bad and UK = good. Yet we can all see the bulk of the weapon and financial support comes from the USA. As usual the EU/UK are slow to act with mostly rhetoric. "We will fight them on the beaches... with American weapons".

Granted the quantities aren't always huge but most of the systems we've promised Ukraine have been seen in action not long after - delays are usually training/support related. Even Brimstone and Wolfhounds have supposedly been seen in action.
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Nov 2011
Posts
11,376
"#Switzerland has banned #Germany from supplying #Ukraine with Swiss-made ammunition The veto concerns, among other things, ammunition for the "Gepard" self-propelled air defense systems, the Swiss State Secretariat for Economic Affairs said, citing the country's neutrality."

This is somewhat ridiculous. If they were neutral, they wouldn't sell weapons in the first place. Now they are trying to dictate where/when they are used /facepalm.

^^ This tweet is from April, but it still baffles me, as it is related to the German supply of weapons to Ukraine.
Switzerland have since granted permission for various systems and ammo to be sent to Ukraine - they are no longer claiming to be neutral.
 
Soldato
Joined
25 Sep 2009
Posts
9,630
Location
Billericay, UK
Short video from an Ukrainian artillery unit using an M777 (no combat footage showing destroyed trenches or broken vehicles etc but you do see the howitzer being fired a few times) where the commander explaining the difference a single unit can make in terms of morale for local forces. Incidentally he says it took 5 days for them to be fully trained to use a M777:

 
Soldato
Joined
12 Jul 2007
Posts
7,914
Location
Stoke/Norfolk
As usual the EU/UK are slow to act with mostly rhetoric. "We will fight them on the beaches... with American weapons".

I disagree with this as the UK sent NLAW's (not a US weapon) a month before the Russians invaded at the same time that the US sent Javelins. Granted the EU has been slower, mainly as the various countries waited to see if the invasion would take place in the first place but some EU nations sent anti-tank weaponry (not US weapons) within a few days of the invasion starting. Since the invasion the UK has supplied various types of non-US weaponry (Starstreak, Martel etc) alongside more NLAW's and the EU has provided lots of non-US weaponry too.

As someone else mentioned, the reason that graph is so skewed is that the US, with a defence budget $810 Billion (approx 1100% more than the UK spends) has huge stockpile of weapons it can give away such as 90 M777 artillery pieces (50% more artillery than the total UK army has!!), whilst the UK and EU don't have the money to build stockpiles like that.
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Jun 2020
Posts
3,116
Location
-
06-Jun-2022 10:40:21 - Russia’s Auto Sales Down 83.5% in May — AEB
06-Jun-2022 10:40:48 - Russia’s Gaz Sales of LCV in Russia in May at 1,890 Vehicles Versus 4,381 Vehicles Year Ago — AEB
06-Jun-2022 10:41:39 - Russia’s Sollers Group Sales of New Cars and LCV in Russia in May at 1,540 Vehicles vs 3,739 Vehicles Year Ago — AEB

06-Jun-2022 10:47:36 - IAEA Chief Grossi: We Are Developing the Modalities to Dispatch an International Mission of Experts to Russian-Held Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant As Requested by Ukraine
06-Jun-2022 10:49:26 - IAEA Chief Grossi: The Situation at Zaporizhzhia Is a Clear and Present Risk to the Safety, Security and Safeguards At the Nuclear Power Plant
06-Jun-2022 10:50:09 - IAEA Chief Grossi: There Are Indications From Ukraine Regarding Their Concern About Interruptions in the Supply Chain Of Spare Parts to Zaporizhzhia
06-Jun-2022 10:51:30 - IAEA Chief Grossi: We Must Find a Solution to the Hurdles Preventing Progress at Zaporizhzhia

06-Jun-2022 11:19:36 - Ukraine’s President: Received Confirmation From UK PM Johnson of New Defence Support Package For Ukraine in Call on Monday
06-Jun-2022 11:21:39 - Ukraine’s President: Discussed Ways to Unblock Ukraine’s Ports With UK PM Johnson
06-Jun-2022 11:51:02 - UK PM Johnson’s Office: Johnson and Ukraine’s Zelenskiy Continued to Discuss Ways to End Blockade of Ukraine’s Ports in Call

06-Jun-2022 11:51:04 - Unit of Russia’s OR Group: Failed to Redeem Bonds for RUB 26.1 mln at Holders Requests
06-Jun-2022 11:51:35 - Unit of Russia’s OR Group: Failed to Redeem Bonds for RUB 4.2 mln at Holders Requests

06-Jun-2022 11:15:00 - Kremlin: Closure of Some Countries’ Airspace That Prevented Lavrov Travelling To Serbia Was Hostile Action
06-Jun-2022 11:15:00 - Kremlin: Nuclear Arms Talks With U.S Are Necessary, But Unlikely at Present Time
06-Jun-2022 11:16:45 - Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov: Cancellation of His Visit to Serbia After Neighbours Close Airspace Was Unprecedented
06-Jun-2022 11:18:56 - Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov: We Have yet to Receive An Explanation for the Decision
06-Jun-2022 11:19:06 - Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov: No One Will Destroy Our Ties With Serbia
06-Jun-2022 11:20:13 - Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov: My Serbian Counterpart Has Been Invited to Moscow, Hopes His Trip Will Not Be Obstructed
06-Jun-2022 11:52:50 - Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov: The Longer the Range of Weapons Sent to Ukraine by the West, the Further Russia Will Move Away From Its Border the Line From Which ‘Neo-Nazis’ Can Launch Strikes

06-Jun-2022 12:39:12 - Mayor of Ukraine’s Sievierodonetsk: Street Fighting Ongoing in City, Neither Side Preparing to Withdraw
06-Jun-2022 12:43:29 - Ukraine’s Defence Ministry Spokesperson: Russia Not Sparing Troops and Equipment in Its Attempts to Take Control of Sievierodonetsk

06-Jun-2022 13:24:19 - Ukraine’s President at Monday Media Briefing Russian Forces Have Numerical Advantage in Sievierodonetsk but Ukraine Has “Every Chance” to Fight Back
06-Jun-2022 13:26:09 - Ukraine’s President: Russia Constantly Wants to Occupy Southern City of Zaporizhzhia, Situation in Region Is “Threatening”
06-Jun-2022 13:31:13 - Ukraine’s President: Situation Could Become Very Difficult for Ukraine If Russia Breaks Through in Donbas
06-Jun-2022 13:33:29 - Ukraine’s President: Russia Could Hit Strategic Industrial Targets in Central Ukraine if It Breaks Through in Donbas
06-Jun-2022 13:43:19 - Ukraine’s President: Over 2,500 Ukrainian Soldiers Taken Prisoner By Russia From Mariupol’s Azovstal Plant
06-Jun-2022 13:50:13 - Ukraine’s President: Kyiv Has Discussed Grain Export Corridor Guaranteed by Third Country Navy With UK and Turkey
06-Jun-2022 14:01:22 - Ukraine’s President: Currently 22-25 mln Tonnes of Grain Currently Stuck in Ukraine, By Autumn Could Be 75 mln Tonnes
06-Jun-2022 14:02:11 - Ukraine’s President: Our Strongest Guarantee of Unblocking Export Corridors Is Anti-Ship Weapon Systems
06-Jun-2022 14:08:03 - Ukraine’s President: He Wants More Weapons From West, And Wants Them to Arrive Quicker

06-Jun-2022 15:06:58 - MMK: Payments of Interest Made by Guarantor for Benefit of Noteholders May Get Blocked, Frozen or Delayed for an Uncertain Period of Time by Clearing Systems or Other Entities
06-Jun-2022 15:07:46 - MMK: Guarantor Has Sufficient Financial Resources and Is Making Every Effort to Effect Payment of Interest Due to Noteholders As Soon As Processing Of Payments Could Be Assured
06-Jun-2022 15:08:33 - MMK: Issuer and Guarantor Are Initiating a Consent Solicitation and Invite Noteholders to Agree to Certain Amendments and/or Waivers to Terms of Notes for Purposes of Ensuring Due and Punctual Performance in Relation to Notes
06-Jun-2022 15:09:12 - MMK: Guarantor Encourages Noteholders to Liaise With Its Investor Relations Department and/or Rybalkin, Gortsunyan, Dyakin and Partners Advocates Bureau Directly to Obtain a Copy of Consent Solicitation Memorandum And to Discuss Other Related Matters
JCD45ew.png

06-Jun-2022 14:12:30 - Russian Court Fines Radio Free Europe 20 mln Roubles for “Fakes” About Russia’s Military Operation in Ukraine — IFAX
06-Jun-2022 15:54:43 - Putin Orders to Pay 5 mln Roubles ($81,500) to Families of Russia’s National Guard Who Died In Ukraine and Syria — TASS

06-Jun-2022 17:50:00 - Russian Finance Minister Siluanov Calls On BRICS Countries to Agree on Coordinated Measures to Stabilise Economic Situation
06-Jun-2022 17:50:00 - Russian Finance Minister Flags Risks of Global Stagflation and Food Crisis, Drop In Trust in Global Forex and Financial System

06-Jun-2022 18:19:59 - Russia Foreign Ministry: Russia Imposes Sanctions Against U.S. Finance and Energy Ministers
06-Jun-2022 18:27:02 - Russia Foreign Ministry: Russia Also Imposes Sanctions Against Leading Executives of U.S. Defence and Media Firms

06-Jun-2022 17:03:01 - U.S. Charges Roman Abramovich With Exporting U.S.-Origin Gulfstream, Boeing Aircraft to Russia Without License
06-Jun-2022 17:05:27 - U.S. Seeks to Seize Boeing 787, Gulfstream 650er Aircraft Controlled by Abramovich -Court Papers
06-Jun-2022 17:49:09 - DOJ Official: Roman Abramovich’s Planes Have Not yet Been Taken Into U.S. Custody, but Are Now Known As ‘Tainted Assets’

06-Jun-2022 19:19:18 - U.S. State Dept: U.S. Continues to Issue Visas to Qualified Russian Journalists
06-Jun-2022 19:19:41 - U.S. State Dept: U.S. Has Not Revoked the Foreign Press Credentials of Any Russian Journalists Working in the United States
06-Jun-2022 19:19:58 - U.S. State Dept: Kremlin Is Engaged in a ‘Full Assault’ on Media Freedoms, Access to Information
06-Jun-2022 19:46:43 - U.S. State Dept: There’s Been No Change in U.S. Embassy Posture In Kyiv Following the Recent Bombings
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Jan 2007
Posts
15,438
Location
PA, USA (Orig UK)
I disagree with this as the UK sent NLAW's (not a US weapon) a month before the Russians invaded at the same time that the US sent Javelins. Granted the EU has been slower, mainly as the various countries waited to see if the invasion would take place in the first place but some EU nations sent anti-tank weaponry (not US weapons) within a few days of the invasion starting. Since the invasion the UK has supplied various types of non-US weaponry (Starstreak, Martel etc) alongside more NLAW's and the EU has provided lots of non-US weaponry too.

As someone else mentioned, the reason that graph is so skewed is that the US, with a defence budget $810 Billion (approx 1100% more than the UK spends) has huge stockpile of weapons it can give away such as 90 M777 artillery pieces (50% more artillery than the total UK army has!!), whilst the UK and EU don't have the money to build stockpiles like that.
Very true. The US has an absolute ridiculous military budget. Dwarfs everyone.
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Jun 2020
Posts
3,116
Location
-
06-Jun-2022 21:10:53 - U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken: Reports Russia Is Pilfering Ukraine’s Grain Exports for Its Own Profit Are Credible
 
Associate
Joined
9 Oct 2021
Posts
573
Location
Kent
https://deepstatemap.live/en#6/49.438/32.053

Ukraine has managed to regain about 90% of the remains of Severodonetsk according to the situation map at Deep State. If this is accurate it will hopefully give Ukraine some breathing room to bring up further western artillery and these new missile systems.
Not the right battle to 'win'. Either win at Pospasna and Sloviansk or loose the whole area.
Despite the whole lets fight with a river to our backs posts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom