UN Migration Pact - Criticising Migration = Hate Crime

Maybe a law saying you must have children to be a PM or President wouldn't be such a bad idea. It would be interesting to compare the MPs and what percentage have children vs those who don't and contrast that with national averages.

Ah yes forced discrimination, what about people who literally cant have kids or don't want to as the risk for disease is too high? Adopting is one thing, but if even normal people don't bother adopting, i don't see politicians doing it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...n-never-have-children-has-doubled-generation/

It's no longer the huge minority it once was.
Almost half of women who turned 30 in 2016 did not have any children, up from a low of just 18 per cent in 1976.
 
Federal world its the only way we can survive as a species, finite resource and all that, better to start this arguments now rather than later, makes perfect sense tbh. But then when has a fact based system been of use politically.

I am looking forward the to the killing people off when they are 80 argument as its a drain on society......

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Imagine my shock when I read that Israel won't be signing in order to protect its borders. They push and push and push for western nations to take on refugees and other immigrants, but when it comes to them taking any they suddenly look the other way. Forced diversity for thee, but not for me, goyim...
 
Ah yes forced discrimination

I wasn't being serious.

what about people who literally cant have kids or don't want to as the risk for disease is too high

Were it the case I was being serious, I would be responding that that applies to a small percentage of people. Unfortunately a growing one.

Adopting is one thing, but if even normal people don't bother adopting, i don't see politicians doing it.

On the children front. It is in some respects - ethically - that people who make these dashing decisions are not considering those who have children and be left affected.

To explain, the "skin in the game" argument is in my view an important one. As a poster commented earlier, ever likely Merkel is comfortable to look someone in the face who has had their child raped and murdered. She can draw no personal parallels.

I attended the funeral of a friends child a couple of years back. It affected me in a deep and profound way. My partner too. We both had a cry at the situation. That will be something Macron or the others could not quantify.

Now, they have their choice. I'm not for taking away choices unless a circumstance by its very immediacy or likelihood causes an exigency for that. But to believe these people have a thread about them when it comes to these matters borders on a contortion of the the mental aptitude of sanity.

I sometimes wonder if a large portion of this is why 100,000 girls were thrown to the meat grinder for over 40years.

We now have a policy dictat that will criminalize legitimate questions regarding migration. As always it will be the saps at the bottom who take the tonnage. Amble onwards.

What a sad world we are becoming in the West to abandon our goods. Something special happened on this content over the last 500 years not emulated as well anywhere else.
 
Federal world its the only way we can survive as a species, finite resource and all that, better to start this arguments now rather than later, makes perfect sense tbh. But then when has a fact based system been of use politically.

I am looking forward the to the killing people off when they are 80 argument as its a drain on society......
I do actually agree that long term we must move towards a single united world with no borders. History shows us that it's inevitable. First we had self contained and run villages. Then towns. Then cities. Then countries. Then nations. Now super nations like the EU and the US. But the question is how we get there. If we force it to happen then it will fail as people rebel against it.

But if we try to bring the wealth and living standards of other nations *up* rather than force the western world *down* then I think more people would be happier to become part of a global country. But the biggest impediment is that humans are naturally tribal. It's built into our blood. We want to associate with similar people and push away people not part of our group. In-group preference has been a survival factor for millenia. If it's not the village you're from then it's the country, your skin colour, your religion or even just your football team. Forcing people together puts big divisions in place and tears us apart. It has to be something people want to do rather than be forced to do.
 
You won't find anything in the malicious communications act about prosecuting people for jokes video recorded and shared online (nazi saluting pug) or repeating song lyrics (19 year old prosecuted for posting rap lyrics online)

Both of these cases show the law is quite selective in its approach.. . the rap song in question isn't banned or proscribed in the UK and big comedians like Frankie Boyle and Jimmy Carr, I would suggest, have made 'offensive' jokes that have been similarly shared on the Internet.

So your issue is with UK law and the way it is interpreted...?

I think the worry is that this pact is going to bulk up laws that don't have a proper definition of the offence apart from vague references and feelings.. We know that these laws are already being misused here already. As I typed in the thread earlier if, for example, I didn't want anymore immigration to this country then some people would say that is racism. We've already seen it, hell, we've already seen the pro-EU people saying Leave people are racist when all the european immigrants are white! It would be like a Carry On film if it wasnt so serious.

This is a non binding framework to try and harmonise migrant protection. Countries that don't already have laws covering the points mentioned can use the framework to build their own laws. The UK has laws covering basically everything already, so it's doubtful the compact would make any difference there, but for migrants in places like Saudi Arabia, and developing countries it may well provide them significant protection.

For example:

a) Enact, implement or maintain legislation that penalizes hate crimes and aggravated hate crimes targeting migrants, and train law enforcement and other public officials to identify, prevent and respond to such crimes and other acts of violence that target migrants, as well as to provide medical, legal and psychosocial assistance for victims

The UK already has laws and processes covering this.

b) Empower migrants and communities to denounce any acts of incitement to violence directed towards migrants by informing them of available mechanisms for redress, and ensure that those who actively participate in the commission of a hate crime targeting migrants are held accountable, in accordance with national legislation, while upholding international human rights law, in particular the right to freedom of expression

We already do that.

And it's worth pointing to the last (highlighted) part. Any laws still need to allow freedom of expression. Obviously the line will be debatable, but that's a debate lawmakers in individual countries already have to deal with, so again, any issue is with UK law and it's interpretation.

c) Promote independent, objective and quality reporting of media outlets, including internet-based information, including by sensitizing and educating media professionals on migration-related issues and terminology, investing in ethical reporting standards and advertising, and stopping allocation of public funding or material support to media outlets that systematically promote intolerance, xenophobia, racism and other forms of discrimination towards migrants, in full respect for the freedom of the media

The UK already has standards the media and advertisers have to adhere to.

d) Establish mechanisms to prevent, detect and respond to racial, ethnic and religious profiling of migrants by public authorities, as well as systematic instances of intolerance, xenophobia, racism and all other multiple and intersecting forms of discrimination in partnership with National Human Rights Institutions, including by tracking and publishing trends analyses, and ensuring access to effective complaint and redress mechanisms

The UK already does this.

e) Provide migrants, especially migrant women, with access to national and regional complaint and redress mechanisms with a view to promoting accountability and addressing governmental actions related to discriminatory acts and manifestations carried out against migrants and their families

The UK already has this. Courts, appeals courts and tribunals.

f) Promote awareness-raising campaigns targeted at communities of origin, transit and destination in order to inform public perceptions regarding the positive contributions of safe, orderly and regular migration, based on evidence and facts, and to end racism, xenophobia and stigmatization against all migrants

The UK and charities already do this to an extent.

It's also worth pointing out the highlighted part - regular migration, as opposed to irregular migration (illegal migration). So arguably this section is about persuading people to get the right paperwork to migrate, rather than do so illegally. Doesn't seem unreasonable at all, and something most people should be able to get behind.

g) Engage migrants, political, religious and community leaders, as well as educators and service providers to detect and prevent incidences of intolerance, racism, xenophobia, and other forms of discrimination against migrants and diasporas and support activities in local communities to promote mutual respect, including in the context of electoral campaigns

The UK and charities already do this.

So this non binding agreement has nothing to do with trying to stop people arguing against immigration, rather protecting legal migrants from harm (both by citizens and governments), persuading migrants to migrate legally and to try and stem the tide of fake news about migrants. If laws start restricting peoples legitimate right to freedom of expression then that's an issue for the governments making laws in response to the agreement.
 
I do actually agree that long term we must move towards a single united world with no borders. History shows us that it's inevitable. First we had self contained and run villages. Then towns. Then cities. Then countries. Then nations. Now super nations like the EU and the US. But the question is how we get there. If we force it to happen then it will fail as people rebel against it.

But if we try to bring the wealth and living standards of other nations *up* rather than force the western world *down* then I think more people would be happier to become part of a global country. But the biggest impediment is that humans are naturally tribal. It's built into our blood. We want to associate with similar people and push away people not part of our group. In-group preference has been a survival factor for millenia. If it's not the village you're from then it's the country, your skin colour, your religion or even just your football team. Forcing people together puts big divisions in place and tears us apart. It has to be something people want to do rather than be forced to do.

Yep, but everything shows we get over that eventually, its just less benefit to the rich countries (who call the shots) rather than the poor ones with nothing. Electing a world el prezidenti would be lots of fun :)

Best have the world parliament in space.
 
It is ultimately inevitable a world war will happen this century over limited resources and massive migration patterns because of inhospitable equatorial conditions. A world government will undoubtedly form once the dust settles.

It'll begin in Africa i feel, the Middle-east will truly explode, etc. You can say goodbye to a great many things you may have taken for granted, chocolate, bananas (probably go extinct tbh), cheap clothes, some spices, anything with silicon in it will be extremely overpriced considering it's pretty much entirely focused in and around China... it's going to be fun.
 
It is ultimately inevitable a world war will happen this century over limited resources and massive migration patterns because of inhospitable equatorial conditions. A world government will undoubtedly form once the dust settles.

It'll begin in Africa i feel, the Middle-east will truly explode, etc. You can say goodbye to a great many things you may have taken for granted, chocolate, bananas (probably go extinct tbh), cheap clothes, some spices, anything with silicon in it will be extremely overpriced considering it's pretty much entirely focused in and around China... it's going to be fun.


this guy gets it.

If people are upset about the current migration crisis in Europe, its a pre-cursor to something pretty much biblical in the future.

At least the UK is an island, as I'd expect tens of millions if not 100m+ migrants in the future when things hit the fan in Africa/Middle East.
 
this guy gets it.

If people are upset about the current migration crisis in Europe, its a pre-cursor to something pretty much biblical in the future.

At least the UK is an island, as I'd expect tens of millions if not 100m+ migrants in the future when things hit the fan in Africa/Middle East.
I am afraid you are right, things will get really bad before they get better. In the end even the liberals will be calling out for someone to stop it. I worry for my children as I don't think many have the stomach for what's to come.
 
I am afraid you are right, things will get really bad before they get better. In the end even the liberals will be calling out for someone to stop it. I worry for my children as I don't think many have the stomach for what's to come.

A move to Shetland/Orkney/Isle of Man would be the logical thing to do. Although I think even the Isle of Lewis now proudly has its first mosque, or perhaps maybe one of the thousands of islands of Sweden, and only pop into the population centres for emergencies.
 
Yep, within 20-30 years areas of Africa and India will have day time temperatures so high during heat waves that they could prove fatal to otherwise fit adults if they don't have access to air conditioning. Places where there will be 100s of millions of people living there as the population boom in those areas continues un-abaited, so it will trigger the biggest human migration in history.
 
Well the recent situation was the trial run, and we have disorder over many cities in Europe, 2m extra bodies in Germany, and a UK population who voted out of the EU largely because of it!

What on Earth will happen in the future, lord only knows. I can see countries like Hungary/Czech/Poland defending their borders like Israel does currently.
 
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