Under a dealer warranty, should injectors count as part of the engine?
- Thread starter Noughtboy
- Start date
Soldato
Pizza in the oven 
Quite. Talk about delusions of grandeur
I think you're over thinking this one
Quite. Talk about delusions of grandeur
Associate
I did not mean the service history checks, I meant checks to see if the car had been written off and repaired, that type of thing.
A dealer marks up the price to make a profit. They take a calculated gamble that on average they will make enough overall profit to cover the cars that cost them money to fix.
A consumer is prepared to pay extra to buy from a dealer because they aren't just buying a car. They are buying a degree of protection by paying extra. It's not just a car they are buying.
In most cases the dealer wins by profiting. Sometimes the dealer loses because they didn't inspect the car properly before deciding to buy it and flip it. But at the end of the day my opinion or yours isn't too important because it has already been decided by wider society that consumers should get protection when paying a premium to buy from a dealer looking to make a profit. Anyway, neither of us will convince the other
I purposely bought a car from a local dealer for this reason.
Back in may last year I was looking at 2 cars, a vauxhall astra vxr (2016) and a Kia ceed GT (2015), the Kia was being sold at a main dealer 5 minutes from home and the vauxhall was a private seller and old boy who treated himself for retirement then realised the car was too fast for him.
After some pondering and knowing that either car could be costly to repair as second hand and being they are fully loaded with all sorts of wizardry I decided to do the sensible thing and buy the Kia from the main dealer for the piece of mind.
I'm a car guy and normally do my own servicing and big jobs until recently with kids and a busier day job etc sometimes it's easier for me to pay someone to service. My day job is actually rebuilding engines though I'm more office based these days, but basically I know my way round an engine.
Essentially the Kia has had little niggles since I got it, and dealing with the main dealer has been an absolute pain in the backside and tbh I wish I'd gone for the vxr. I would have known their was no warranty with any niggles and I would have just accepted as such and fixed whatever was needed no quibbles.
With the dealer when fighting to get things sorted I could have just paid for it to be fixed but then it's the principle. I specifically paid over the odds because I was dealing with a main dealer and they are supposed to have gone over the car with a fine tooth comb, but as it happens most of the faults were there at the last mot and failed because of it, yet seems a hooky mot was put on it, and then the car traded in a few months later.
In future I wouldn't be too bothered about buying from a main dealer, I haven't felt the benefits of it.
Also found out that dealers are no more honest than your back street mechanic, it's just mutton dressed as lamb.
Nope...he only offered bank transfers. I did ask for this reason.
And just so @keef247 knows, that car has (as all my cars are) been treated with respect. They are driven below 2500 rpm for about 10 minutes to warm up the oil, the water and oil is checked regularly and they are not driven until 12500 miles before the oil is changed.
I buy Castrol Magnatec not cooking oil marketed for cars, premium tyres (Goodyear/Continental etc) and pads/discs (Brembo or similar) and the cars are not run ragged.
As I mentioned, I checked out the service history and MOT for advisories and tested the car for brakes, tracking straight, no noises, shocks and springs being in good nick, driveshaft and CV joints balanced/not clacking etc. Thus, unless something was deliberately hidden (for example the windscreen leaking could NOT have gone unnoticed) I think I was thorough. As highlighted, we paid over the odds to buy from a dealer precisely to circumvent any problems... Otherwise I would have gone private and saved at least a grand or two to cover this type of eventually.
I happen to agree with you that the law can be abused and some people take the P (and especially with regards to being sued by a burglar hurting themselves whilst robbing your house. I am a firm advocate of being able to own and use a firearm and using it to defend my family and property including causing a permanent loss of consciousness induced by a minimum of two or more 9mm or larger perforations leading to a sudden and catastrophic loss of blood loss or organ failure especially in light of the fact that criminals can gain access to firearms and law abiding citizens cannot but that is another story) but that is not the case here and a dealer was used to mitigate being schlentered.
Soldato
Exactly the point of a dealer is the added value of knowing that they must obey the SOGA (well lets say should) and that is to sell goods of a merchantable quality, even if thats used it still needs to meet the expectations of a reasonable person.
Where as a private individual is not expected to be any better than another layman and hence is not expected to be able to warrant that the goods are of a merchantable quality, hence sold as seen.
The law in regards SOGA has been (via caselaw pretty much) come down that dealers will be liable for any mechanical/electrical required to drive problem bar things with serviceable items.
They can make a fair usage charge (if refunding) for use, and can also reject a claim for abuse or that is unrealistic in regards expectation of age. They cannot however operate in the way Keef thinks they should be able to.
The main usage of an item sold must be able to be achieved for 6 months for a car thats clear, it needs to function as a motor vehicle, ie drive. Stuff like the radio failing, a seat splitting etc are not detrimental to the purpose of a motor vehicle and would not be covered.
I would not be adverse to changing the position but I think it should be made clear at the point of sale. NO hiding behind a warranty be that purchased or self warranty.
The dealer should be required to state specifically what they will do in regards breakdowns and what is covered in terms a layman will understand, and hence what they are not covering.
I would say at that point 90% of used car salesmen would disappear if their added value was basically zero which is what Keef argues it should be.
Where as a private individual is not expected to be any better than another layman and hence is not expected to be able to warrant that the goods are of a merchantable quality, hence sold as seen.
The law in regards SOGA has been (via caselaw pretty much) come down that dealers will be liable for any mechanical/electrical required to drive problem bar things with serviceable items.
They can make a fair usage charge (if refunding) for use, and can also reject a claim for abuse or that is unrealistic in regards expectation of age. They cannot however operate in the way Keef thinks they should be able to.
The main usage of an item sold must be able to be achieved for 6 months for a car thats clear, it needs to function as a motor vehicle, ie drive. Stuff like the radio failing, a seat splitting etc are not detrimental to the purpose of a motor vehicle and would not be covered.
I would not be adverse to changing the position but I think it should be made clear at the point of sale. NO hiding behind a warranty be that purchased or self warranty.
The dealer should be required to state specifically what they will do in regards breakdowns and what is covered in terms a layman will understand, and hence what they are not covering.
I would say at that point 90% of used car salesmen would disappear if their added value was basically zero which is what Keef argues it should be.
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Car has done 3500 since last service (which was at 79000 miles). Currently on 82500 of which we may have done 1000 (possibly not quite that much 25% of which had been to the dealer and back or his associates probably 15 times to sort out the issues highlighted).
It has been with him for at least three weeks over that time.
I'd have expected that spark plugs and coil pack would have been their first point of call. Wouldn't normally jump to conclusion of injector straight away.
I see your in Essex, though I know Essex is quite a large place, but Colchester fuel injection in Colchester (amazingly) have an asnu tester for fuel injectors and sometimes only some times they can be revived.
atspeed in Rayleigh also has an asnu injector tester.
IM in agreement the dealer should be fixing this under warranty.
Soldato
I've had this before. GFs car has been taken to her friend's mechanic husband when it was low on power, who diagnosed a misfire due to a faulty coil pack, which was replaced.
A few months later the fault returned, and she finally agreed to let me look at the car rather than the trusted mechanic. I pulled the plugs and the outer electrodes had a step worn into them. As a temporary bodge I filed them flat with a bit of wet n dry and gapped them to spec, and the car ran perfectly.
The plugs were OEM GM plugs with a copper core, I think the interval for changing was 25k and the car had done 60k, I reckon they'd never been changed.
This was the turning point where the GF finally let me work on her car rather than her mechanic friend, who charged her full labour.
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On the flip side, i bought my car from a dealer & it turned out to have a stretched timing chain, they stumped up £2k to have it replaced, no issues.
None, i reported the issue to them & the following day they agreed to pay a local specialist to do the work as they didn't have the tools required.
Bought my car from a Mini main dealer. 6 year old car came with 12m warranty. Booked it in for a buzzing interior trim. Whilst in they have the car a health check and found a worn engine mount and replaced it under warranty.
I was impressed with the service to say the least.
I was impressed with the service to say the least.
This is exactly what happened. The dealer sent it to one of his BMW "specialists". They first switched the plugs around and then the car literally started rougher and then refused to turnover for a while after being switched off. 2 cylinders were now misfiring
At that point they changed plugs (one of which [#2] was a lot cleaner than the others) and coil packs.
It ran better but was smoking badly so they diagnosed a leaking fuel injector on 2 (causing the misfire and clean spark plug there) which was potentially causing low fuel pressure on 4 (leading to a misfire there). They have ordered two reconditioned injectors just in case (after reading him the Riots Act, the dealer has agreed to pay by the way so that is a win at least). They are busy being coded and hopefully the car arrives back on Friday 1 month later FFS!
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
So what value are they adding for the premium over a private sale to justify charging more than a private sale or trade value?
Cars from dealers cost more because they have higher overheads as a result of adding value to the purchase that isn't there if you buy through an auction or a private seller. Part of this value is extra consumer rights.
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If you believe that's the only reason they rip people off then that's up to you.
I'd rather pay less and have the same or more money left over for upgrades/usual wear and tear service parts over time.
I know there's a law that people think protects them, but in reality with a lot of dodgy dealerships that usually win screwing people over.
Main dealers sure, you'll be alright most of the time, but after the year, the car could still fail.
I like to know a car is nut and bolt sound myself personally, versus taking someone else's word for it, yes I know not everyone does everything themselves, but anyone can take it to have a mock mot and find out if it's decent, or even bring a qualifed person with them to inspect it.
The dealer only delivered 1 fuel injector so when #2 was replaced #4 is still playing up. It has been at his mechanics for over 6 weeks for diagnosis and then them trying to change things piece meal and him taking 2 weeks to deliver 1 injector and still waiting for the second.
He refused to pay for the spark plugs and coil pack and 4 hours of labour to diagnose the issue so off to small claims we go.
Will sue him for what we paid to get the non working car back (£480 for plugs, coil pack and 4 hours labour). In addition, will add 6 months of insurance and road tax, petrol for all the trips to the dealer and time for my wife and I to drive up and down for 12+ trips so another £1000 on top of the £500 I have already paid.
I will make his life an absolute misery so that he will not only lose money on the car but hopefully even more
Don
Good. Take him to the cleaners.