Under a dealer warranty, should injectors count as part of the engine?

If you're talking about genuinely serviceable items though, it's easy to not get stitched up for that - you simply present the record of the serviceable item being serviced on the car you're selling as full service history (as in OP example) or point to the schedule saying the item is due it's service now/in the future. Not even the most incompetent of judges is going to slap a dealer with a 'repair' bill to carry out obviously scheduled service work.

The 6 month thing is about as sensible as it can be for used car purchasing really - a dealer should know their responsibilities in this period and price their cars accordingly. This is part of the reason dealership cars have to cost more, because the dealership needs to put money aside to resolve potential problems with the cars they are selling. You don't have to strip down every car you sell, you cost in your contingency across all your sales so that when you need to spend £200 replacing a failed component on a car, you can cover that cost without bankrupting yourself.

I don't think the legislation is anywhere near as open to abuse as you're painting it either, it's hardly a walk in the park to pursue claims this way if a dealer chooses to be awkward about it even when the consumer is absolutely 100% unarguably in the right. The idea people can freely damage cars they are bored with and simply stitch up a dealer to get it all paid for is an idea that I don't think is related to any sort of reality in all honesty.
To save doing a double reply, the following answers @Kenai and @Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

The problem is that's very vague, an injector isn't like something like a belt/bushing/ball joint/filter/bearing etc, it's just 'when' it decides to **** it's spray pattern/blow it's O-ring... It's just bad luck hence why IMHO it's a buyers problem on an old car and just grin and bare it and pay the bill situation.

I don't think the 6 month thing should exist on a used car past 5-10 years personally, TBH it should be mileage/service/parts replaced dependent unless explicitly a 'known fault/failure point/bad design from factory' then yeah fair enough. An injector is a perfect case in point why this is too vague/wide of a generalisation of a law to enforce, as too many variables that fall into the same stigma.

I'm not saying people damage stuff because they're bored, but I have seen countless Type R's/M3's/Audi RS etc etc abused because they were bought on a loan (not finance from the dealership) and ragged hard from cold, never had the oil checked, had put the wrong octane fuel in, and killed early on then the dealer is held at fault from mechanical ignorance from a court, just 'because it's new it shouldn't break' type nonsense. You see it ALL the time with fast cars.

Anyone can thus apply that don't give a **** mentality to something cheap or whatever price then go moan/threaten court action to the dealer/SCC etc despite it being their blatant negligence. Which is scummy, no? If you worked in the trade in various forms like I have, you WOULD have seen this, when it's blatant we know what's happened and yet we're footed to bill to avoid further down the line ball ache or have resisted then still been caught out in court, I'm not a dealer nor salesman and never have, but I've delivered/supplied/fixed/collected said cars and been part of the teardown/maintenance and honestly explaining what we see as blatantly abused to a 'court' just falls on deaf ears.

For example anything like WBAC etc etc type companies, will just pay someone to collect a ****** car and still deliver it and throw it in an auction, the same as they'll lie to your face and tell you it's worth jack **** then throw it in an auction/on a website for stupid money, having never driven it but gone round with a PDA/phone ticking boxes for scratches/interior/tyre wear, all utter ******** that doesn't even impact the car, never having had it on a ramp... So it works both ways.

At the same time it is SO easy to get a bent MOT and sell a car that's ******, so it works both ways.

Anyway my anger as I thought I illustrated well enough about to @Hades is more towards IN GENERAL the ability for fraud/abuse of the law and the vagueness it operates in which in term ***** it for the genuine people that need it.

Anyway I can't really add more than that, the way certain laws applies does my head in, hence the comparison in the Hades reply to the hurting yourself breaking in law for example, this country has an interesting judicial system for sure.
 
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No one is expecting a never ending stream of repairs but it's not unreasonable for a dealer to fulfil their legal obligations.

In this case the issues were raised within that timeframe and therefore weakly hiding behind "not covered by the back of a fag packet warranty" is a **** move.

Don't want to deal with things like consumer rights then don't sell cars as a business and let people buy private in which case sold as seen is expected and reasonable because the car itself is generally a chunk cheaper.

You can rant all you want about us being entitled, woke, children, whatever but it doesn't change the fact that if you want to sell as a business then there are downsides for you when something goes wrong.
ssssshhhhh i used to make good money repairing them::

in fairness when trading and selling the odd car usually damaged repaired , i had to tell the customer everything and always allowed the factor that if it went totally pete tong just refund in the first month or two.
some cars you look at and think do i want to sell it of just trade it out or even let family run it for nothing.
warranties are pretty useless we did find local garages who would work under the warranty company rules but few and far between what with , must be garage vat registered, must check the part and then notify us for authorisation before going forward, right down to only use manufactures parts if secondhand not available or at a push pattern parts.


seriously i had 3 bays in our unit and even one vehicle that needed that sort of attention could screw a good week up.

we uased to do fleet servicing for a major fleet company , that was bad enough i said after 2 services in i didnt want to do any more, to me a service was oil ,oil filter, fuel filter if needed, air filter and pollen then check brakes steering etc for any problems....
nope had to argue to change anything except oil and oil filter.. beggars belief.

sorry was a reply to

JonRGV250 comment about expensive beer money champagne cars​

 
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Wow, this thread blew up!

10 points for anyone who can spot the dodgy 2nd hand car dealer :p

Wish I knew the name of their business so I could avoid it, but based on their posts, is probably the kind of del boy who "closes down" and opens a new one every few months to avoid legal action from the buyers they've ripped off :rolleyes:
 
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Wow, this thread blew up!

10 points for anyone who can spot the dodgy 2nd hand car dealer :p

Wish I knew the name of their business so I could avoid it, but based on their posts, is probably the kind of del boy who "closes down" and opens a new one every few months to avoid legal action from the buyers they've ripped off :rolleyes:

Well that just blew up in your face didn't it. Quoting my own replies in another thread and twisting them to suit your own narrative, original that m9! Talk about a text book wouldn't say boo to a goose in person keyboard warrior. Stalking me on various threads as well!

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If you want to be petty, you come from brum so are a fine one to talk about legitimacy in car sales :cry: Everyone knows the golden rule never buy a car from Birmingham, to the point it's a literal figure of speech in this country and even quoted in Top Gear! You live in the con artist capital of fraudulent car sales in this country!

I work on cars I don't sell them, hence why I know what's involved versus your constant obviously lack of knowledge with anything engineering/mechanical wise... Along with your sense of poor me woke self entitlement.

I've emphasised heavily in this thread I just hate the law being abused and how both sides can do it and thus it annoys me how vague/abusable it is so pull the other one, kid.

Enjoy paying other people extortionate labour to fix your neglected maintenance.
 
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Imagine buying a 2-3k car which that is marked up by a dealer, and then expecting them to basically pay 2-3k for brand new injectors/fuel pump/pressure regulator and god knows what else could be the issue (potentially) via a claim in court.
A dealer marks up the price to make a profit. They take a calculated gamble that on average they will make enough overall profit to cover the cars that cost them money to fix.

A consumer is prepared to pay extra to buy from a dealer because they aren't just buying a car. They are buying a degree of protection by paying extra. It's not just a car they are buying.

In most cases the dealer wins by profiting. Sometimes the dealer loses because they didn't inspect the car properly before deciding to buy it and flip it. But at the end of the day my opinion or yours isn't too important because it has already been decided by wider society that consumers should get protection when paying a premium to buy from a dealer looking to make a profit. Anyway, neither of us will convince the other :)
 
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A dealer marks up the price to make a profit. They take a calculated gamble that on average they will make enough overall profit to cover the cars that cost them money to fix.

A consumer is prepared to pay extra to buy from a dealer because they aren't just buying a car. They are buying a degree of protection by paying extra. It's not just a car they are buying.

In most cases the dealer wins by profiting. Sometimes the dealer loses because they didn't inspect the car properly before deciding to buy it and sell it for a profit. But at the end of the day my opinion or yours isn't too important because this it has decided by wider society that consumers should get protection when paying a premium to buy from a dealer looking to make a profit. Anyway, neither of us will convince the other :)

Yeah I just don't think the system should be abused either way nor the law, as it ruins it for the legitimate claims/cases :) I do think though people are very naive and expect something for nothing or that it to be somewhat magical and last longer than private sales ones on the same year/mileage/history... That's the difference in the real world, it's just a mark up.

I know no one that's bought an old car from a dealer that's bought it for warranty/reliability, they've just gone their because it was the colour/spec/year they wanted. It really is that simple, newer cars sure, but we weren't talking about that. As reliability is governed by the car's maintenance/proof of parts/service/history, not the price/location/building it's sold at.
 
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Well that just blew up in your face didn't it. Quoting my own replies in another thread and twisting them to suit your own narrative, original that m9! Talk about a text book wouldn't say boo to a goose in person keyboard warrior. Stalking me on various threads as well!

Screenshot-2024-02-15-at-7-45-14-pm.png

Might want to read the name of the poster in your screenshot next time before making yourself look like (more of) an idiot :cry:

If you want to be petty, you come from brum, so are a fine one to talk about legitimacy in car sales :cry:Everyone knows the golden rule never buy a car from Birmingham, to the point it's a literal figure of speech in this country and even quoted in Top Gear! You live in the con artist capital of fraudulent car sales in this country!

Actually I come from Glasgow (username should be a slight clue...). Regardless, I'm not sure how that has any relevance whatsoever?

I work on cars I don't sell them, hence why I know what's involved versus your constant obviously lack of knowledge with anything engineering/mechanical wise... Along with your sense of poor me woke self entitlement.

I've emphasised heavily in this thread I just hate the law being abused and how both sides can do it and thus it annoys me how vague/abusable it is so pull the other one, kid.

The law is not vague. It is entirely clear, and anyone selling vehicles as a trader within the UK has to abide by it. If they fail to familiarise themselves with it, or choose to ignore it, then it is nobodies fault but their own when that comes back to bite them.

Enjoy paying other people extortionate labour to fix your neglected maintenance.

I do the vast majority of my own maintenance and repairs, because I'm well aware of how many scumbags and chancers there are in the automotive industry (which I also happen to work in). Your attitude is a perfect example of why many people hold that same opinion.
 
Might want to read the name of the poster in your screenshot next time before making yourself look like (more of) an idiot :cry:



Actually I come from Glasgow (username should be a slight clue...). Regardless, I'm not sure how that has any relevance whatsoever?





The law is not vague. It is entirely clear, and anyone selling vehicles as a trader within the UK has to abide by it. If they fail to familiarise themselves with it, or choose to ignore it, then it is nobodies fault but their own when that comes back to bite them.



I do the vast majority of my own maintenance and repairs, because I'm well aware of how many scumbags and chancers there are in the automotive industry (which I also happen to work in). Your attitude is a perfect example of why many people hold that same opinion.
Are you blind, he's quoting WHAT I SAID in a reply :cry: Might want to get your eyesight checked! HENCE quoting the conversation so it proved I said it and he responded. DUH?

You took what I said to him and then twisted it to use it against me, thinking no one would twig ironically it's what I'd warned someone else about. How original/clever...

I love that this is the best you could come up with let alone in half hour of furiously refreshing this page and being active.

Yeah sure, so just abuse the system and screw over innocents on both sides cause 'it's teh law m9' ok then! So I'll break into your house, hurt myself doing so, sue you, that's fair is it? Cause it's a separate matter according to 'the courts/law' ok m9 sure sure. Works both ways...

Sounds like you've never touched a car in your life and think the law gives you a right to screw people over and neglect your own cars, relying on MOT's to blame when it fails...
 
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Yeah I just don't think the system should be abused either way nor the law, as it ruins it for the legitimate claims/cases :)

Who is abusing the law?

I do think though people are very naive and expect something for nothing

Why do people pay more to buy from a dealer then? They don't expect something for nothing, they expect their consumer rights in exchange for paying a premium.

I know no one that's bought an old car from a dealer that's bought it for warranty/reliability, they've just gone their because it was the colour/spec/year they wanted. It really is that simple, newer cars sure, but we weren't talking about that. As reliability is governed by the car's maintenance/proof of parts/service/history, not the price/location/building it's sold at.

It's nothing to do with expecting more reliability - it's about having a comeback if it does go wrong straight away.
 
Are you blind, he's quoting WHAT I SAID in a reply :cry: Might want to get your eyesight checked! HENCE quoting the conversation so it proved I said it and he responded. DUH?

You took what I said to him and then twisted it to use it against me, thinking no one would twig ironically it's what I'd warned someone else about. How original/clever...

What on earth are you on about? :confused:

I love that this is the best you could come up with let alone in half hour of furiously refreshing this page and being active.

"Furiously refreshing" or "putting the kids to bed while the tab happens to be open on my phone" ;)

Yeah sure, so just abuse the system and screw over innocents on both sides cause 'it's teh law m9' ok then! So I'll break into your house, hurt myself doing so, sue you, that's fair is it? Cause it's a separate matter according to 'the courts/law' ok m9 sure sure. Works both ways...

As has been pointed out multiple times, nobody is forcing dealers to sell old cars.

Sounds like you've never touched a car in your life and think the law gives you a right to screw people over and neglect your own cars, relying on MOT's to blame when it fails...

I'm glad you've managed to glean all that information from a few sentences in an internet forum, sounds like you're wasted working on cars, ever thought of a career in espionage? :cry:
 
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Who is abusing the law?
Why do people pay more to buy from a dealer then? They don't expect something for nothing, they expect their consumer rights in exchange for paying a premium.
It's nothing to do with expecting more reliability - it's about having a comeback if it does go wrong straight away.
Many people, traders/buyers/people expecting something for nothing and claiming 'they know cars' then blowing something up and going crying wolf and getting their money back, their is countless examples I've listed.
It works both ways, I've in no way sided with the sellers, I've just said it annoys me that people can be dicks and play the 'law/system' and then that risks ruining it for those who are genuine that have been ****** over. Not rocket science.

You're VERY naive if you think this doesn't happen!

No idea, maybe because it's convenience and they can put the blame on them if it goes wrong due to them being too tight/ignorant to maintain it, or because it had the colour/spec/model they wanted and was local/quick to find to buy based on needs? The list is endless.

Yes it IS, because THEY shouldn't have to bail YOU out on something old/obviously requires parts due to age/mileage to keep going, anyone that actually works on their cars knows that, so again you've exposed yourself as a liar again!
 
Many people, traders/buyers/people expecting something for nothing and claiming 'they know cars' then blowing something up and going crying wolf and getting their money back, their is countless examples I've listed.
It works both ways, I've in no way sided with the sellers, I've just said it annoys me that people can be dicks and play the 'law/system' and then that risks ruining it for those who are genuine that have been ****** over. Not rocket science.

You're VERY naive if you think this doesn't happen!

No idea, maybe because it's convenience and they can put the blame on them if it goes wrong due to them being too tight/ignorant to maintain it, or because it had the colour/spec/model they wanted and was local/quick to find to buy based on needs? The list is endless.

Yes it IS, because THEY shouldn't have to bail YOU out on something old/obviously requires parts due to age/mileage to keep going, anyone that actually works on their cars knows that, so again you've exposed yourself as a liar again!

Believe what you want to believe *shrug*

You sound like a very sad and bitter little man, I'll leave you to it because your last few posts have seriously deteriorated and I don't want you to end up hurting yourself :(

(Plus it's pizza & beer time :D)
 
What on earth are you on about? :confused:



"Furiously refreshing" or "putting the kids to bed while the tab happens to be open on my phone" ;)



As has been pointed out multiple times, nobody is forcing dealers to sell old cars.



I'm glad you've managed to clean all that information from a few sentences in an internet forum, sounds like you're wasted working on cars, ever thought of a career in espionage? :cry:
I'm talking about exactly what I said in relation to your blatant lying accusation despite not having a clue who I am/what I've done for a living or my experience, just blind ignorance and arrogance, then to do that based on reversing what I've said to someone else, but to do it in a negative sense attacking me, how original.

Sure, sure...

Yeah and no-one is forcing any buyers to be lazy and not do their research on X car/seller, and buy accordingly. It's tough **** if something goes wrong on an old car, you chose it, you should know what goes wrong and roughly after how much mileage/age, and be aware what you're up against, as with anything no one buys blindly, you just grin and bare it, fix it and move on. It isn't some sneaky fraudulent plan of a seller to always screw the buyer over, and they certainly don't dissemble a car or it's engine 'just incase' something might break in X miles/conditions/usage, you're majorly grabbing at straws if you think they pay the labour to do that/replace every part on an old car with high mileage...
 
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I'm talking about exactly what I said in relation to your blatant lying accusation despite not having a clue who I am/what I've done for a living or my experience, just blind ignorance and arrogance, then to do that based on reversing what I've said to someone else, but to do it in a negative sense attacking me, how original.

I think you're over thinking this one :p
 
Believe what you want to believe *shrug*

You sound like a very sad and bitter little man, I'll leave you to it because your last few posts have seriously deteriorated and I don't want you to end up hurting yourself :(

(Plus it's pizza & beer time :D)
I have experience in the trade, you don't. I've not taken either side and said both can be at fault and abuse the law for their own gain and ruin said law for those in genuine need of it, that has been my point all along.

You reek of someone that googles stuff and has zero hands on and can't admit when found out, the fact you even chose to quote a dialogue between me and another member warning him of a supplier/dealer and turn it against me thinking I wouldn't notice, is very sad, you must have a lot of free time on your hands versus facts and experience, you're clearly very naive if you believe a 'law' stops the bad people doing bad stuff, ignorance is bliss, enjoy your carbs and booze on a school night.
 
I think you're over thinking this one :p
How, he's literally quoted what I said in another thread and tried to use it against me as if I'm said person, hardly original inspiration for a dig at someone is it.

Just reeks of a stalker keyboard warrior google quoting novice with zero real world experience upon what they're arguing about. Then bails out when caught out lying. Must have a really exciting life to stalk me and then use my own conversations against me as digs and frantically refreshing this page trying to pretend he's got bottle. Sad really.

The difference is in reality, these sort of passive aggressive wannable bullies wouldn't say boo to a goose in person, and hide behind a keyboard thinking his post count/likes received makes him hard.
 
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Just catching up here. Has he quoted you from another thread?
I posted a screenshot of me warning someone off from dodgy car importers/part suppliers, a thread of which he stalked previously along with my other posts, and then he took what i said and decided he'd say I was one of said type of con artists (that I'd been warning grudas about in the other thread...)

It's previous obvious this is a screenshot of something I've said to grudas being replied to? So he thought he'd basically accuse me of being what JapWestMods is (as mentioned in the screenshot I quoted below previously)

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After this he then said I wasn't the username in the photo? Which I chose to obviously quote because it shows my original conversation that grudas replied to, thus acknowledging a conversation was had regarding what I'd warned grudas about in ref to con artist importers/part suppliers/dealers...

So then he basically says I'm the type of guy I talk about.
Real original.
 
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How, he's literally quoted what I said in another thread and tried to use it against me as if I'm said person, hardly original inspiration for a dig at someone is it.

Just reeks of a stalker keyboard warrior google quoting novice with zero real world experience upon what they're arguing about. Then bails out when caught out lying. Must have a really exciting life to stalk me and then use my own conversations against me as digs and frantically refreshing this page trying to pretend he's got bottle. Sad really.
You are absolutely 100% overthinking it, I promise you :cry:
 
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