uninterruptible power supply help

[Phil2008]

I have had my belkin ups for about 8 years now and your not suppose to change the batteries, but I do anyhow. Having changed the batteries about 4-5times now, its still a tad nerve racking taking the metal case off and on, because theres a board almost touching the top of the metal case. So if the case touches the board, it will short and burn the board, as there is always power running through the ups until you disconnect the batteries.

So I was thinking of gluing something to the top of the case, so if the case touches the board it wont short and fry the board. So guys whats the best stuff to use to solve this problem. Thanks

Heres a pic that I found of the ups with the case removed and you can see how close the board is from the top of the case.. The removable case is the same as the old pc cases use to be, top and sides are all in one

 

[Phil2008]

Some sort of insulating plastic sheet? (Have seen a lot of PCBs have it on the back anyway in various devices)

Maybe something like:
https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/electrical-chemical-insulating-films/7757797/

Does the ups not have a removable link on the back, to isolate (all our APCs at work do, and fairly sure our newer Eaton's do)?

Thanks for that link and no it doesn't have a removable link, like I said the batteries are non replaceable. but because of this the batteries are quite cheap to replace, 2 batteries cost £45 and lasts roughly 3yrs.

That's sure cheap China production...
Kinda wonder if it has passed actual safety testing.

If you have some old broken PSU around those (should) have plastic insulation sheet under PCB.


In that picture looks power semiconductors have been running real hot with PCB seriously darkened from above those so design isn't that good looking for longevity.
That heat trying to rise upwards and hitting PCB heats also capacitors.

That isnt a picture of my ups, but due to its age, mine probably looks worse as its like 8+yrs old now. but its been brilliant and never let me down even when i caught 1 of the batteries terminals on the metal casing when I were replacing them. I have it plugged in a surge protector now though,, as Im guessing that part of the ups has worn out now.

 

[Phil2008]

How much black outs you have there?
Unless always letting batteries go empty/to low charge or there are lots of black outs they should last longer than that.
Especially this would be awfully much battery swapping for normal use in which UPS is mostly used for short few minute black outs:

The specs of the batteries says 3-5yrs, but they last roughly about 3-4yrs, and dont really get much use anymore now.

The reason I got a ups in the first place was because our trip switch was dodgey and our power was always going off and we thought it was warn out wiring and would have costed big money to get it fix, so I bought a ups to keep my pc from going off all the time

But since we have had our mains power fixed, the Ups still prevent my stuff going off when a light bulb blows, that sometimes causes our mains power to trip or when something gets wet.

So the UPS doesn't get much use anymore, but it still comes in handy and when we have storms when Im not around to unplug my stuff.

Though there might be also other components worn out.
If it's basically meant to be replaced instead of swapping batteries it's pretty good bet that capacitors aren't good.

Well Im guessing the surge protection dont work anymore, so I have it plugged in to a surge protector now. But other then that it seems to still be working well and it hasn't let me down so far when the mains power been dodgey. But yeah I probably could do with a new one, but I want the same or better then I have now and they are £150+. Plus if I buy a APC one I will need to by 2pin to 3pin uk socket converters.

 

[Phil2008]

Eh? APC have UK plug models at low end, or standard IEC connector models.

All the apc ups's has these kettle leads kind of sockets, mine has the 3pin uk sockets

 

[Phil2008]

I run the pc and monitor just plugged straight into the ups and then I have two 4 strips running of it for my 2 printers, router, hdd backup box, speakers and my floating globe.. all that uses about 400watts if all on together can you believe, and got about 200watts to spare, but I never have everything on together

So having 3pin uk socket are important for me... you can buy these but they are expensive tho.......

 

[Phil2008]

When you put it like that, yeah. Im making it sound harder then it is. My ups id due another battery change this year, so I might look into getting a new ups instead of putting out more money into this one. But thats what I did last time, but couldn't afford a new ups at the time.

 

[Phil2008]

Its a all in 1 inkjet and a 3d printer. If the Ups gets overloaded, more then 650watts, it trips off. Its a bit of a pain, as my family members has plugged hoovers, saws into it, not knowing, and it just kills the power to everything instantly.

Anyway if I dont change the ups this time around and just replace the batts again, I think I'll buy some of that plastic stuff for the case (thanks to Armageus for the link).. Im amazed its lasted so well, I bought it when I had my E8400 cpu and that was about 2008, so its roughly 8-10yrs old.... Not bad hey and its still going strong, wonder if it will see through another 3yrs.

Im amazed over the years I haven't needed to buy a more powerful UPS as its seen off a few pc's. I even had 2 pc's connected to it at one point aswel and we had a powercut, but it kept both pc's chugging away nicely until the power was restored 5-10mins later.

 

[Phil2008]

Ummm I think its every 3 yrs roughly, but yrs seem to go so fast nowadays, so it could be longer.. I can remember the first batt change, I left untill the ups just turned off when the power failed and that was 3yrs, but it had the original batteries in it.

 

[Phil2008]

Seeing some of the abuse it has taken maybe not so surprising - I keep mine comfortably specced with overhead - infact probably a bit overspecced - the current estimated protection time for the two I've got in use right now is 2 hours 3 minutes and 20 seconds for one and 1 hour 20 minutes for the other heh.

That not my photo by the way, but saying that, I have plugged alsorts into it over the the years, evern a 24" crt tv when we had a powercut, so me and my family could watch the soaps hehe.

You must have a high wattage ups,, mine will only keep my pc going for about 30mins (about 150watts) and 1-2hrs if its under 50watts.. Im guessing a lot of battery power is used just by the ac/dc converter.. Im guessing it would last much longer if it didn't have to convert the power first?

 

[Phil2008]

Depends on VA rating on the UPS (and of course what is connected) If you have a 30,000VA UPS it'll last a long long time. 400VA? Not very long at all.

Mine is 1200va/650watts... Id love a 1500va or higher as that would keep things going much longer, but your looking at about £250+. Plus I bet replacement batteries wont be cheap for a more powerful ups?

 

[Phil2008]

That looks like a quality ups EsaT, I would love one of those. Just looked on the bay and for £250 - £300 you can buy the 850va version

My ups uses the same batteries as yours, the 12v 9Ah, but only 2 of them.

 

[Phil2008]

Hey this powercool ups looks very tasty for £150 - £200?

 

[Phil2008]

Ive been browsing the ups today, the thing I don't get is, lets say, you want a 1200va ups, why does all the 1200va have different wattage?

Also my batteries are a 9Ah, could I run 10Ah, or would I blow it up.. Im just thinking 10Ah batteries would give me more runtime?..

This is now going badly off topic

 

[Phil2008]

Ah That makes sense.. and yeah Im guessing the physical size of the batteries will be larger with a 10Ah battery.. These are what I am using at the moment https://www.hardwarexpress.co.uk/hr1234w-f2-csb-battery-457-p.asp

 

[Phil2008]

I have just done a test and at 150watt load, my ups wil last 10mins before it gets to low power of 25% and it should have lasted about 20 - 30mins. So the batts are coming to there end, but I am going to really try to get a new ups this time instead of replacing the batteries.

I might replace the batteries and use this ups on the tv and sky in our sitting room.

 

[Phil2008]

I have been on the net for hrs looking for a pure sine wave, about 1000watts for round about £150. I can only get them with "simulated sine wave" for that price and thats what my ups has...I wanted to upgrade to pure sine wave with half decent wattage, but Im looking at over £200?

That ups I found for just over £150 a few posts up,, well its too good to be true as there's no powercool website, so its a tad risky to buy it

 

[Phil2008]

yeah I was wondering about connecting 2 12v car batteries up to a ups, because the voltage is correct.

a family member might be able to help me out and if thats the case, this one looks quite decent for just under the £250 mark, but im still looking for anything better, as I wont be ordering for a few days I think.

PowerWalker VI 2000 PSW/UK Pure Sine Wave IEC UPS 1400W

• Capacity 2000VA / 1400W
  
• Input Voltage: 220/230/240VAC
  
• Voltage Range: 162-290VAC
  
• Output Voltage: 220/230/240VAC
  • Voltage Regulation - (Battery mode) ± 10%
    
  • Frequency 50 or 60Hz
    
  • Freq Regulation Battery mode: ± 1 Hz
    
  • Waveform: Pure Sine Wave
    
  • Transfer Time Typical: 2-6 ms
• Battery
  • Type: 12V / 10Ah
    
  • Quantity: 2
  • Recharge Time: 6h to 90%

The only thing I can see that could be better, is the voltage regulation could be down to 5% then the ups will kick in sooner when the voltage spikes.. The transfer time is lower then my ups, so thats a bonus ..........Im guessing if I had 50w-100w load, that would last a few hrs on battery mode?

 

[Phil2008]

Hi guys, well Im still looking, last night I was looking at the online ups and I found a good one for £360 from the powerwalker ups's range, but I think thats a little too much. I have had a very interesting conversation with powerwalker live chat thing.. I kind of knew this, but they say even if the ups has surge protection, use a surge protector behind the UPS, as the mov/varistor, or whatever it is wears out over time, making the surge protection useless in a ups.

Like people say you shouldnt use a surge protector with a ups, but I think they mean dont plug one into the ups's sockets, even some ups manuals say dont use surge protectors.

The person that I was chatting with from powerwalker, said.......
"indeed they have surge protection and the varistor, I think all, although I am not sure. The key point is that this varistor is not intended to last as long as the surge protector. Or after due time, the replacement of varistor would cause a problem. Therefore it is better to keep them separated and "use up" the surge protection in the UPS only as last resort."

I started using a surge protector with my ups about 4yrs ago, as I thought the protection in the ups would be knackered,, but I will use a surge protector in the new ups from the word go, now that I know. Plus its protecting the surge protector in the ups from dying too.

Interesting hey?

 

[Phil2008]

What do you guys think of this ups, the expensive one.. Im guessing a online ups will use more mains power, mine uses about 30watts with nothing plugged in to it?

https://www.powerwalker.com/?page=product&item=10122042&lang=en

 

[Phil2008]

Well, I have ordered that online ups as my family has very kindly given me the money and I thought I wont have another chance to get a decent ups, so I went for the "PowerWalker VFI 2000Va/1800watt TG Online UPS".

I hope my current ups is a very inefficient being 10yrs old and the new ups will use the same or less mains power, but the specs of the new ups does say "90% full load Efficiency" and I dont think I will be using more then 200watts most of the time.

Hopefully I will have quite a few hrs of backup time as thats the main reason for such a high wattage ups and hopefully it will be as good and reliable as my good old belkin ups and last 10 yrs or longer.... It better had I have been researching online hrs and hrs these last few days, Im all upped out now..hehe

Edit: The ups has a "eco mode" and I think when using this, it acts as a "line-interactive", but I will see what this mode actually does when I get it. If it can be run as a line-interactive , I might only use the online mode during storms and the eco mode the rest of the time. But we will see.