Universal basic income to be trialled

D.P. said:
A UBI combined with an income at even NMW would greatly increase quality of life and hence productivity, with a much higher motivation to work.
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You've definitely got a lot of faith in the public, I don't believe long term it'll have any real effect to increased productivity levels. If anything I suspect it'll have a negative effect as more people decide to give up work.

You'll either have a portion of people who will happily just live off a UBI lifestyle, or you'll have a large proportion of say millennials who will work long enough to pay off things like a mortgage, and then retire from work in their 50s because a UBI lifestyle at that point is more than affordable after your biggest expenditure is taken care of.
 
Semple said:
You've definitely got a lot of faith in the public, I don't believe long term it'll have any real effect to increased productivity levels. If anything I suspect it'll have a negative effect as more people decide to give up work.

You'll either have a portion of people who will happily just live off a UBI lifestyle, or you'll have a large proportion of say millennials who will work long enough to pay off things like a mortgage, and then retire from work in their 50s because a UBI lifestyle at that point is more than affordable after your biggest expenditure is taken care of.
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Checking in!
:D

I don't, for a second, expect net productivity to go up if people get paid a livable and even better, comfortable, amount for free.
 
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Tephnos said:
I see UBI as an eventual necessity, but assuming our incompetent government will implement it correctly is a pipe dream.

When all the high paying, white collar, jobs are replaced by AI or similar, what do we do with all the population out of work? Apparently, according to some in this thread, we're better off just collapsing as a society.
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What about the forum member who says all lost jobs will be replaced with newer ones? He was adamant that when technology made a certain type of job obsolete a new one would be created in its place
 
TheOracle said:
What about the forum member who says all lost jobs will be replaced with newer ones? He was adamant that when technology made a certain type of job obsolete a new one would be created in its place
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Sounds like we have to adapt. Those in jobs where robots have taken over they need to upskill and fix the robots when they break. Making a nice wage rise. :cry:
 
TheOracle said:
What about the forum member who says all lost jobs will be replaced with newer ones? He was adamant that when technology made a certain type of job obsolete a new one would be created in its place
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Was this the same guy who believes doctors will all be made redundant, but brick layers are safe and sound?
 
TheOracle said:
What about the forum member who says all lost jobs will be replaced with newer ones? He was adamant that when technology made a certain type of job obsolete a new one would be created in its place
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People say it since it has been true.
Its only true until its not however, this may be the time when we stop creating new things we need people to do.

Thats not to say that at the time of change that there is not pain for many coming from the old industry whilst new jobs evolve.
 
Semple said:
You've definitely got a lot of faith in the public, I don't believe long term it'll have any real effect to increased productivity levels. If anything I suspect it'll have a negative effect as more people decide to give up work.

You'll either have a portion of people who will happily just live off a UBI lifestyle, or you'll have a large proportion of say millennials who will work long enough to pay off things like a mortgage, and then retire from work in their 50s because a UBI lifestyle at that point is more than affordable after your biggest expenditure is taken care of.
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I agree that lot of the older people will likely just retire but I think that lot of them will find that the UBI is not actually enough to be able to do all the things they want to do in their free time.

Obviously it will depend on what your hobbies are but filling 40 odd hours a week with stuff to do will get expensive. If you have a house with big garden and your hobby is gardening than you're or just want to play games all day (though cost of leccy might be issue for some) then you're good. Anyone with more expensive hobbies will soon find out that they still need to work a bit.

Personally I'd go to 3 days a week but I'm one of those weird people who actually enjoy what they do. :)
 
Hate to use the word but AI is going to replace a lot of low skilled white collar type workers, UBI is the only solution or a cull of significant numbers of the population. I would be quite happy on UBI pottering around in the garden growing veggies to supplement what goes on the table.
 
bayo000 said:
I agree that lot of the older people will likely just retire but I think that lot of them will find that the UBI is not actually enough to be able to do all the things they want to do in their free time.

Obviously it will depend on what your hobbies are but filling 40 odd hours a week with stuff to do will get expensive. If you have a house with big garden and your hobby is gardening than you're or just want to play games all day (though cost of leccy might be issue for some) then you're good. Anyone with more expensive hobbies will soon find out that they still need to work a bit.

Personally I'd go to 3 days a week but I'm one of those weird people who actually enjoy what they do. :)
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My main cost for hobbies is fuel.
Set up is expensive. But everything else is just petrol!
We could definitely live on 1600 if mortgage free at today's prices

Remember, if you trusted the UBI to last, you wouldn't even need to worry about savings.
 
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413x said:
My main cost for hobbies is fuel.
Set up is expensive. But everything else is just petrol!
We could definitely live on 1600 if mortgage free at today's prices

Remember, if you trusted the UBI to last, you wouldn't even need to worry about savings.
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Would be a significant step up from todays benefits. I used to get about £400 when I did a little stint in between jobs.
 
SPG said:
Hate to use the word but AI is going to replace a lot of low skilled white collar type workers, UBI is the only solution or a cull of significant numbers of the population. I would be quite happy on UBI pottering around in the garden growing veggies to supplement what goes on the table.
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We should be planning now how to deal with automation replacing people in the future. We could overman certain jobs, the railways for instance return guards etc to the trains. I think we should certainly be worried that there will be nothing left for large parts of the population to do against unrestrained economic competition. I genuinely believe work is an essential part of peoples self worth and without it we'll see further decline.
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
I was watching a 3d printed building clip the other day.
Obviously its only the concrete walls, but damn impressive.
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Yeah those concrete printers have been demoed for years. Won't be long until a machine is laying pipes and cables in/attached to those walls.

Of course it still won't help first time buyers because in the UK, housing is all about land cost anyway. It'll all be money in the developers' pockets. Might as well keep the trades in work at that rate.

All these deep learning findings will eventually find their way into more nuanced physical tasks as well. At the moment it's all in extremely high end robotics, but the better the software gets the more it will be able to compensate for more affordable hardware configurations.
 
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Absolutely no chance jobs are replaced on a 1:1 ratio when AI properly takes off.

Are people forgetting the lengths business owners will go to just to save a few pennies on a task. Imagine all the office politics and stuff you'll be able to wipe out as well that is catastrophic in some companies.
 
Ayahuasca said:
Absolutely no chance jobs are replaced on a 1:1 ratio when AI properly takes off.

Are people forgetting the lengths business owners will go to just to save a few pennies on a task. Imagine all the office politics and stuff you'll be able to wipe out as well that is catastrophic in some companies.
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Yep. Might be quite a quick shift from worrying about the economic impact of declining birthrates to worrying not declining fast enough

Slippery slope if you ask me.
More jobs lost to AI, fewer people will need the services of the AI. And whole of capitalism could grind to a halt.
 
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