There are already rumours although it may happen in 2023.
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Unreal Engine 5 - unbelievable.
- Thread starter Too Tall
- Start date
Associate
Do you mean higher poly meshes ? Higher resolution textures ? More advanced lighting ? A higher screen resolution ? More complex shadows ? Or are these all just 'toggle and switch' mechanics ? Define significant detail within the realm of possibilities.
Toggle and switch ? Hahahaha really. Most settings on PC implemented as a toggle and switch so that the games can be optimised for different hardware configurations. Next gen consoles have a toggle and switch to achieve higher framerates at the cost of fidelity.
Everyone with hardware above that of the PS4 over the past 8 years has been able to play with extra splendor in their games. Not just the people who bought 2080 Ti's, however they DID have the ultimate experience of early raytracing, the best graphical fidelity on modern games with the best framerates, an experience beyond what a console could offer. There has been no limitation, just a steady progression.
Games developed on PC and then ported to console. A lot more players on console now but pro players use PC for the increased cutomisation and framerates.
Not vague at all. Infact your next sentence just confirmed that we are arguing different points.
I wasn't debating that. Multiplatform = larger player base. Consoles are more accessible to the masses due to the price but this doesn't hold back progression of graphics on PC. As inferred by the person I was originally talking to.
So you said "yes they do" then when pressed further you ask what I mean. Okay.
Also I have already defined it and addressed your second sentence go back and read what I wrote.
Not a response to the part you quoted. Also I have already addressed part of this go back and read what I wrote.
Your next sentence and previous ones confirms that you don't understand what I or the other person was saying or are ignoring them.
Associate
I'm not reiterating what is already obvious and has been stated, you just want to be correct, waste of time, end of conversation.
You are on a PC enthusiast forum on a PC development tool thread arguing against the graphical progression of PC's.. should have heard the alarm bells.
So you are just ignoring what has been written and making **** up. Okay.I'm not reiterating what is already obvious and has been stated, you just want to be correct, waste of time, end of conversation.
You are on a PC enthusiast forum on a PC development tool thread arguing against the graphical progression of PC's.. should have heard the alarm bells.
Alarm bells should have been ringing when you were being disingenuous, after which you claimed that you were not being disingenuous and just "interested to know" , while simultaneously creating a strawman
. Jokes on me for taking you at your word.
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Soldato
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- 14 Aug 2009
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Exactly, you'll have the gameplay tailored around the capabilities of the main target hardware. Think of elevators, tight spaces, metro rides (like in Deus Ex), stuff that masks loading screens or just simple levels with loading screens once you move from one part to another. Sure, you have the ability to have higher detailed assets or settings here and there on the PC, but the gameplay doesn't really change.There is the limiting factor.
Hopefully UE5 will allow some nicer looking (and playing) games at least. Nanite so far works only for static objects (so no foliage or characters), but who knows, maybe those will work at some point.
When it comes to RT, will depend how much effort developers will put to support fully path/ray traced games (like Metro) or just some selected effects here and there (at high quality and performance compared to consoles). I'll remind you again about Red Faction and how that type of physics isn't really available today - or even stuff such as DMM, although it was running on lower hardware.
So, is a combination of what the hardware is capable and what devs actually want to implement.
Associate
I agree, but in my mind the limiting factor is PC hardware as anyone wanting to push the boat out is going to target PC hardware. Using the first Unreal game as an example.. it was UNREAL ! We had never seen a game engine capable of delivering that level of realism. You can see examples throughout the generations, as you can see the optimisational and developmental leaps a console makes during it's life cycle, sony and microsoft have both got some interesting ideas for going forward this generation.
Gameplay itself is more about concepts though isn't it, take VR as example, there's stuff you can do that just doesn't translate to a flat, static screen. Gameplay is not going to change much when you're constrained to the same medium realistically, we have already agreed that the games played on top end hardware can be played on the low hardware at low fidelity so how can you realistically expect the base experience to change, I enjoy the high detail but if I knew I had no prospects of updating my hardware i'd play on any setting and I'm sure I'd enjoy it all the same. Having played games since the early 80's, you get to a point where everything is a rinse and repeat of something else you've played, finding a game with new conceptual design (not just a new idea thrown on top of everything else) is extremely rare in my experience.
Stunning physics, I guessing they realised it was a bit too much for a game engine and transferred it to the physics lab
I agree that it's hardware and the software implementation that makes the complete picture, you can only do so much on raw power without the development tools to make proper use of it and ofcourse the devs to design, implement and expand. My point was that this does not halt when console hardware becomes outdated, *Rule Britania starts to play* there's always someone pushing graphical innovation on PC, pushing the limits, regardless, the Dev's at the cutting edge are always there.. they NEED to be there
Redgamingtech released an interview relating to our discussion :
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Those Valley of the Ancient demos truly look next gen to me.
Its obvious that hardware is going to need at least another generation to play that sort of thing at decent frames though at high resolutions.
Looks incredible though and I hope there will be an actual game that looks that good. That Nanite tech looks like the real deal, and makes environments look incredibly realistic.
Its obvious that hardware is going to need at least another generation to play that sort of thing at decent frames though at high resolutions.
Looks incredible though and I hope there will be an actual game that looks that good. That Nanite tech looks like the real deal, and makes environments look incredibly realistic.
IMHO the future will entail a mix of polygons like we have now, with a mix of something close to voxels and vertex based textures joined by mild levels of procedural generation for world design.
The current paradigm can produce fantastic looks with high levels of realism but fundamentally ties us to rigid worlds, where any flexible points have to be manually animated and set up.
Introducing softness and flexibility in game worlds would increase immersion and interactivity tenfold, just imagine an open world game where your actions can physically shape the worlds while still looking AAA.
The current paradigm can produce fantastic looks with high levels of realism but fundamentally ties us to rigid worlds, where any flexible points have to be manually animated and set up.
Introducing softness and flexibility in game worlds would increase immersion and interactivity tenfold, just imagine an open world game where your actions can physically shape the worlds while still looking AAA.
We already have and use procedual textures in video games, to the point of adding geometry using just texture maps. If that is what you are referring to.
Similar but not exactly. Vertex textures are a technology that Nvidia showed a few years ago to make resolution-independent textures and IIRC it's somewhere in the directx specs as well.
As for proc-gen, I imagine it as an assist into creating game worlds, allowing designers to focus more on hand crafting critical locations. Shadow Warrior 2 gave us a preview of that but it can be expanded.
EDIT: Sorry, english slip-up, I meant Vector textures, not vertex
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Are you talking about technology to paint textures on to the model to replace the standard 2D textures that are used in games?
This should be pretty much their proposal: https://research.nvidia.com/publication/infinite-resolution-textures
Soldato
Not just hardware requirements but also development. It's one thing having a powerful tool, but it's another thing having the time and skill to produce something.
Not proc-gen worlds, that most of can agree it sucks but rather proc-gen assist.
If you have to have relatively low content areas (such as a forest) you might want to delegate the bulk building to AI while you refine it later.
Shadow Warrior 2 did it by mixing hand crafted areas with some procedural assembly, someone with better budget could probably do it a lot more effectively.
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Aug 2009
- Posts
- 2,825
I agree, but in my mind the limiting factor is PC hardware as anyone wanting to push the boat out is going to target PC hardware. Using the first Unreal game as an example.. it was UNREAL ! We had never seen a game engine capable of delivering that level of realism. You can see examples throughout the generations, as you can see the optimisational and developmental leaps a console makes during it's life cycle, sony and microsoft have both got some interesting ideas for going forward this generation.
Gameplay itself is more about concepts though isn't it, take VR as example, there's stuff you can do that just doesn't translate to a flat, static screen. Gameplay is not going to change much when you're constrained to the same medium realistically, we have already agreed that the games played on top end hardware can be played on the low hardware at low fidelity so how can you realistically expect the base experience to change, I enjoy the high detail but if I knew I had no prospects of updating my hardware i'd play on any setting and I'm sure I'd enjoy it all the same. Having played games since the early 80's, you get to a point where everything is a rinse and repeat of something else you've played, finding a game with new conceptual design (not just a new idea thrown on top of everything else) is extremely rare in my experience.
Stunning physics, I guessing they realised it was a bit too much for a game engine and transferred it to the physics lab
I agree that it's hardware and the software implementation that makes the complete picture, you can only do so much on raw power without the development tools to make proper use of it and ofcourse the devs to design, implement and expand. My point was that this does not halt when console hardware becomes outdated, *Rule Britania starts to play* there's always someone pushing graphical innovation on PC, pushing the limits, regardless, the Dev's at the cutting edge are always there.. they NEED to be there
Redgamingtech released an interview relating to our discussion :
Games are basically the same because: 1) Devs really don't put all they could into their games; 2) Targeted hardware is/was usually low spec.
AI in general is still very limited and simple. Think of Skyrim and how many NPCs are around its villages and cities. Fallout 4 the same. Check out Assassin's Creed Unity and how well Paris was created and then Valhalla - which seems like a step back.
16.384 NPCs, each with its own goal, capable of avoiding danger, creating new paths, etc. All the way back to 2008.
Of course is also the fault of the gamer as well as the press. Nothing is really changing if everyone buys the same ol' GTA, Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, BF etc franchise until it hits nr100.
Just looking at the number of mods for Fallout4 and Skyrim and how much depth it can add to the game and is clear to see how basic is the gameplay delivered by the devs. Minimum effort, maximum gain.
Maybe through UE5, if is easier to make good looking and impressive words, these modders can find the tools needed to bring some new and interesting ideas to life.
I believe A.I. is CPU side and the PS4 and XONE had poor CPUs. We may get lucky this generation.16.384 NPCs, each with its own goal, capable of avoiding danger, creating new paths, etc. All the way back to 2008.
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True we are still majorly in the cross gen period right now, these new consoles have not been allowed to stretch themselves yet I believe an see should be seeing a lot of much more impressive things in the next couple of years when the cross gen period ends!
Soldato
So are there any downloadable UE5 tech demos yet ? I know the valley of the ancients exists but it's quite bland, Pretty but it's just terrain.