Upgrade suggestion - X99 or skylake?

[uksoldierboy]

You're missing the point, which is that either way the op would have made a good decision. There were good reasons put forward to choose either platform, and thats what we do best in this forum, we provide people with all the angles to help them make up their own minds. But you put down anybody body who didn't agree with your recommendation.

I put down people that didn't agree with me? Come on man, i did no such thing and i know how the forums work thank you.

I honestly don't care what anyone buys with their money, I've been around long enough to know that regardless of what advice and suggestions people, they'll generally go with their own thoughts and get what they want.

All i said was that was that if someone was looking at building a new system, or perhaps upgrading from an older one and they had an I7 Skylake build in mind, that they should skip over that and get Intel's top platform and processors because it's available at the same cost atm.

As far i can see there's no negatives in doing that, but please, if you feel there is, tell me.

I can totally understand what you mean when you say giving people all the angles, but in this instance the choice is clear.

All you have to do is look at what the OP first posted:



I feel it's time for a new machine but I'd like recommendations from more informed people first.

They have a X99 range (5820 & 5930)

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=43&catid=2475&subid=3082

and they have some skylake ones. (most of the other full builds)

When Skylake was first released the reviews seemed to suggest it was a great processor for mobile / laptops but not amazing for full tower machines and I was hoping some kind soul here could give me their recommendation.



At no point did i say anything negative about Skylake, only that for the same price, you could go from Intels mainstream chipset and cpus, to thier topend chipset and cpus which surely we can agree would make the most sense to do.

 

[Caracus2k]

Skylake if you want any sort of upgradability

Er.... No. X99 has far more pci-e lanes so is more flexible there and both z170 and x99 are going to have one further cpu refresh z170 - kabylake, x99 - broadwell -e both will be 14nm products. Z170 is definitely not more upgradeable... Its got significantly less upgrade potential!

 

[uksoldierboy]

Er.... No. X99 has far more pci-e lanes so is more flexible there and both z170 and x99 are going to have one further cpu refresh z170 - kabylake, x99 - broadwell -e both will be 14nm products. Z170 is definitely not more upgradeable... Its got significantly less upgrade potential!

+1

 

[Simon Belmont]

You're missing the point, which is that either way the op would have made a good decision. There were good reasons put forward to choose either platform, and thats what we do best in this forum, we provide people with all the angles to help them make up their own minds. But you put down anybody body who didn't agree with your recommendation.

This^. Well said mate.

There's a few here that think their never wrong. That's why I take what people say here at OCUK with a pinch of salt. Be a leader not a follower

 

[Caracus2k]

Er.... No. X99 has far more pci-e lanes so is more flexible there and both z170 and x99 are going to have one further cpu refresh z170 - kabylake, x99 - broadwell -e both will be 14nm products. Z170 is definitely not more upgradeable... Its got significantly less upgrade potential!

Its a bit pedantic but it also does not make sense to say 'Skylake is more upgradable'. Skylake is the brand name given by intel to a series of CPU's built on a 14nm process with individual model numbers, for the mainline consumer product at least in the 6XXX range. We have already had the 'top end' Skylake parts for the consumer range, the I76700k and i56600k. Apparently the mid to low range models for the consumer desktop socket will be following soon.

Z170 on the other hand is a '100 series' intel chipset that supports Skylake LGA1151 CPU's (and will also support the upcoming Kabylake refresh for LGA1151) Z170 is not Skylake and vice versa.

If you have a 6700k you already have the top end Skylake CPU for the 1151 socket there are not going to be any better SKylake CPU's for your socket! So no upgrade at all.

The next consumer CPU line upgrade after Kanylake will be Cannonlake on a 10nm process but this will require a '200 series' motherboard chipset and so almost certainly wont be compatible with a Z170 board.

IMO Kabylake is likely to be similar to Haswell chips -> Devils Canyon chips i.e a minor tweaking for the most part representing little in the way of a meaningful upgrade from the past gen and mostly of interest to people upgrading from systems from much earlier generations

 

[uksoldierboy]

This^. Well said mate.

There's a few here that think their never wrong. That's why I take what people say here at OCUK with a pinch of salt. Be a leader not a follower

Grow up ffs, how old are you?

I asked if you'd kindly share with me why you think what i posted wasn't correct and you haven't, i don't profess to know it all, and i'm always willing to learn something new.

So if you could please explain, why, for someone looking to build a new system featuring an I7, they shouldn't go X99 but skylake, tell me.

As so far all you've done is moan over the advice i've given, where's yours?

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Skylake if you want any sort of upgradability

If you think 1151 offers an upgrade path then you are upgrading wrong

i cant remember the last Intel socket which has offered a worthwhile direct upgrade in CPU. If you plan on replacing the CPU before the motherboard/socket becomes outdated then you are upgrading for the sake of it. How long do you expect someone to hold on to Skylake before needing an upgrade?

Agree with the X99 buy. I cant see any reason why Skylake i7 would be chosen at the current price points given what else is on offer.

Find the 'wait for xxx or xxx' posts funny, OP has made no mention of his current CPU but wants an upgrade but receives replies that suggest that he probably doesn't need to upgrade and its better to wait. There is always something new round the corner, if your waiting on it because you think you will get better bang for buck, you will always be waiting. What secret benchmarks are people looking at because i see no evidence that future upgrades will offer any more than what these offered over previous generations.

Maybe wait for DDR5?

Take no notice UKSoldierboy, they would rather discredit you as a forum member than argue a point that didn't convince the OP. Your words of advice were solid and i think dealing with some of the self enlightened posters in this thread would be a waste of effort.

Dear forum members, strongly disagreeing is not putting anyone down.

OP has found his new kit and his happy

/thread

 

[bfar]

All i said was that was that if someone was looking at building a new system, or perhaps upgrading from an older one and they had an I7 Skylake build in mind, that they should skip over that and get Intel's top platform and processors because it's available at the same cost atm.

As far i can see there's no negatives in doing that, but please, if you feel there is, tell me.

I can totally understand what you mean when you say giving people all the angles, but in this instance the choice is clear.

It isn't clear, that's the whole point of the thread! I happen to be in the same boat as the OP. I not trying to make out that you're being unhelpful, your assessment is definitely welcome, but it hasn't been balanced. Assuming the same cost, this is how I'd do a proper comparison...

5820k:
+ Much higher multicore performance
+ 15mb cache might come in handy in most usage scenarios
+ x99 is a good modern platform
+ High Memory Bandwidth, quad channel
+ Generally far stronger in workstation usage
- Higher stock power consumption
- Not suited to small form factor systems (but not impossible)
- Needs to be overclocked to improve per core performance which is hugely important for gaming. Takes effort (if done properly), no guarantees it will overclock well, and will run hot Either way, will never match an overclocked 6700k in single core.
- Overclocking a big chip like this needs a decent PSU (especially if using a good GPU) and cooling system, which may add to cost
- Aside from one or two bundled deals, x99 motherboards are expensive, therefore there is less choice unless you're willing to spend a bit extra..

6700k:
+ Pretty much the best per core performance available on a 4 core cpu
+ Stock configuration is a perfect match for most if not all current gaming scenarios.
+ Overclocking isn't necessary, or could be put off for a few months
+ Low power consumption
+ z170 Brand new platform, plus alpine ridge chipset included on some motherboards, also two M2 slots on some models
+ Loads of good value motherboard choices
+ Huge range of build options from ITX to full tower (I personally like to retire my old tower pc parts to my living room itx box)
- Still only 4 cores, multi core performance nowhere close to haswell-e
- Less memory bandwidth, dual channel
- Surprisingly expensive launch price (might fall when last gen stocks clear)
- Barely faster than a last gen 4970k haswell


As you can see, the choice is not the sure fire thing you keep suggesting it is. Now I'm not sure if I'm covering every single area (that's where the community comes in), but a lot depends on the buyer and usage profile. But you know what - I suspect we won't see much buyer's remorse either way

 

[BornEvil]

Good post bfar, would make it my signature if it would fit

I personally think an x99 platform build is wasted on a 5820k, the best feature of x99 is flexibility with more pcie lanes and it is gimped with a 5820k. In that sense, an i7 skylake offers just as much with a much cheaper motherboard option.

Saying that, I would go 5820k as I 100% will overclock my CPUs.

I remember a similar argument 8-9 years ago, where it was the q6600 vs e8500. In the end more cores but slower clock won out the war. Not saying history will repeat though and the platform was the same previously.

 

[uksoldierboy]

We'll have to agree to disagree Bfar, great post and does show the pros and cons between the two chipsets, but honestly after using 4770K,4790k etc i can honestly say hand on heart, that the X99 is a far better platform imo.

Things like power draw aren't that different and certainly not enough to scrub X99 off your list, same for Single core performance, it's right up there with Skylake and you'd not tell the difference in games that use minimal cores.

Overclocking well that comes down to user experience, with X99 it only take a few minutes as there's not much at all you need to change.
But yes of course if your new to it all, it can be daunting and i can see the benefit of a high stock clock Skylake cpu.

Bornevil while the 5820K doesn't have the 40 PCI lanes available that the 5930K has, it's in no way gimped for dual card setups using PCI_E Ver3, 3 or four card setups maybe, but i'd imagine if you had the cash for 3 or 4 cards, you'd have the cash for a 5960X etc lol.

See my benchmark results in the Graphics card section

bfar if you'd like, i'll happily run a few games and show you numbers etc, if your torn between which to go for.

 

[setter]

Yet to game much on my X99 setup, but from what little I have so far, (single player) I'm not noticing any difference over my 4790k. Stock or overclocked on the latter. The 5820k runs a bit cooler though as its a soldered chip. But it will be interesting to see how it fares once clocked. 4790k would max at 75c at 4.7ghz on 1.300v in games.

 

[BornEvil]

Bornevil while the 5820K doesn't have the 40 PCI lanes available that the 5930K has, it's in no way gimped for dual card setups using PCI_E Ver3, 3 or four card setups maybe, but i'd imagine if you had the cash for 3 or 4 cards, you'd have the cash for a 5960X etc lol.

See my benchmark results in the Graphics card section

Yes I know that, but the same can be said about z170. DMI 3.0 can offer USB3.1, built in m.2 32gb/s, Sata-e. All for a much cheaper motherboard.

If you want those features with a 5820k, you will have to use up that precious 4x lane left after a 16x GPU is installed.

If you bought a 'lower end' x99 you will have to buy PCI-e expansions cards, all adds up to cost.

 

[bfar]

We'll have to agree to disagree Bfar, great post and does show the pros and cons between the two chipsets, but honestly after using 4770K,4790k etc i can honestly say hand on heart, that the X99 is a far better platform imo.

Actually, I'm not sure if I do disagree with you, which is why I've been loitering in the thread for so long!

I find both platforms very compelling for different reasons, but as a 2500k owner the option to keep my warchest for a Kabylake (or even broadwell-e) is also wise. Personally, with two small children at home, I don't have much time for overclocking, much less system building, and most of my hardware potentially gets a second life in my living room itx box. So for those reasons, I'm interested in the 6700k. On the other hand, 6 hardware cores are incredibly tempting, and with that in mind I find your thoughts interesting.

 

[uksoldierboy]

Yes I know that, but the same can be said about z170. DMI 3.0 can offer USB3.1, built in m.2 32gb/s, Sata-e. All for a much cheaper motherboard.

If you want those features with a 5820k, you will have to use up that precious 4x lane left after a 16x GPU is installed.

If you bought a 'lower end' x99 you will have to buy PCI-e expansions cards, all adds up to cost.

How many PCI Lanes does the top Skylake allow you to have?

Edit- Had a quick look, it would seem that the Motherboards that allow 16x by 16x for multi gpu configs are quite expensive too.

 

[uksoldierboy]

Actually, I'm not sure if I do disagree with you, which is why I've been loitering in the thread for so long!

I find both platforms very compelling for different reasons, but as a 2500k owner the option to keep my warchest for a Kabylake (or even broadwell-e) is also wise. Personally, with two small children at home, I don't have much time for overclocking, much less system building, and most of my hardware potentially gets a second life in my living room itx box. So for those reasons, I'm interested in the 6700k. On the other hand, 6 hardware cores are incredibly tempting, and with that in mind I find your thoughts interesting.

No problem bud, i'm glad we are seeing eye to eye, no doubt a I7 Skylake build would be awesome, I wonder if my friend would be able to jump in and give his opinions on it.

We've recently upgraded his system to an X99 build using one of the Ocuk bundle deals ( He also had a 2500K overclocked @4.6 or 4.8 i believe)

 

[BornEvil]

All skylake chips offer 16 lanes dedicated to PCI-e slots and another 4 lanes dedicated to DMI 3.0. That is how it is superior to z97.

DMI 3.0 on z170 is much more advanced as it can share bandwidth between those features I listed previously. Yes it shared bandwidth, but all are features are available at once unlike x99.

You would need a 40 lane CPU if you want all those features at full bandwidth. That is what I meant by 5820k gimping the platform

 

[whyscotty]

There's a few here that think their never wrong.

Does this apply to you?

 

[uksoldierboy]

All skylake chips offer 16 lanes dedicated to PCI-e slots and another 4 lanes dedicated to DMI 3.0. That is how it is superior to z97.

DMI 3.0 on z170 is much more advanced as it can share bandwidth between those features I listed previously. Yes it shared bandwidth, but all are features are available at once unlike x99.

You would need a 40 lane CPU if you want all those features at full bandwidth. That is what I meant by 5820k gimping the platform

I'll do some more reading into Skylake then, It's just having a quick look on Ocuk website, it would seem the majority of boards will only do 8x by 8x PCIE3 when two cards are being used.

I see what your saying though.

 

[setter]

There will be a few boards with PLX chips that will do dual x16. Bit like the Z87 Asus Maximus extreme. But such boards command a hefty price tag.

 

[whyscotty]

Agreed Rob, those boards are quite steeply priced.

Which sort of pushes you down the X99 route.