Upgrading my surround sound system

Man of Honour
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Thanks @lucid.

Got the Gemini II installed and calibrated with YPAO, seems a bit weak though. Am I expecting too much? Not really getting any room shaking bass but wondered if you know any good sources to test this? YPAO set it to -6dB at about 9-10 o-clock. Anything higher than that it was said to -10dB which I understand to be the maximum.

The minus numbers means that the amp.is turning the bass down. If you want more bass, go in to the amp setup menu and adjust the bass to 0dB. That should make quite a difference, just so long as there is bass in the audio track.

Any modern blockbuster film will give plenty of bass in the soundtrack for the system to work with.

(Strong feeling of deja vu as I am sure I have written all of this before in this thread)
 
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Mobster
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Sorry to get you to repeat yourself @lucid.

Got the Gemini II, I feel a bit disappointed tbh and I'm not sure if that's just my expectations being wrong?

I'm coming from a Cambridge Audio S80.

The Gemini II is better no doubt but I still don't really "feel" any bass like I thought I would. Is there a film or something I can use to test this, I might not have watched the right source yet. I definitely can't locate the sub when audio is playing, it just sounds a bit hollow to me somehow.
 
Man of Honour
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If you want bass that rattles your bones then you're going to have to spend considerably more on a far larger and much more powerful sub.

I am going to say this one last time. ALL THE BIG HOLLYWOOD ACTION BLOCKBUSTERS HAVE TONNES OF BASS.

If you're watching on Blu-ray, and the amp says DTS-MA or Dolby True HD then you've got the full beans signal. On the other hand, if you are watching crappy pirate rips with basic stereo audio, then no, you won't get the full effect.

So.... what are you watching and how is your gear set up?
 
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Soldato
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Your room is really that small, how many feet or cm?

That gemini is ok for small room but if you want very low bass and shaking the house you need a better one. Use a svs sb ultra 13 myself
 
Soldato
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I ran a svs pc ultra 13 in a room of that size. For movies it was bloody scary and if you want bass with the effect of someone smacking your window with a lump hammer when watching finding Nemo fish tap scene..
 
Soldato
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No.

Buttkicker will give you lower end but really high full range of lfe as a good sub need a subwoofer

My £500 svs sb12+ is miles behind the sheer impact of the ultra 13's. But at double or triple the price expect so.

For music 12" is plenty but not for movies. As was considrring dual 12 instead of a single better sub but I don't think even two would match it.
 
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Man of Honour
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Mate I’m sorry I’m so annoying @lucid :(

I’m watching Blu-Rays with DTS HD! Blu-Ray player straight into my Yamaha V373 amp and using the kit I mentioned in the initial post but with my new Gemini II sub.

Where to start?

At the beginning of this thread you asked some specific questions. If you don't mind, I'll sumarise:

- What can I do for £300 to improve my system?
- Is the Gemini better than the Wharfedale?
- If the budget is more flexible, can I get something better? Then you said up to £400 for the sub
- Will a sub alone improve the performance of my existing satellites?

To those questions, I answered

- Buy a centre speaker and sub and speaker cable (Wharf' SW150 @ £160, centre speaker at £80-£150, thicker all-copper speaker cable)
- Yes, but don't compromise the centre speaker for the sake of the sub
- P12-300 sub
- No

It's still my opinion that the Gemini II is a better sub than the Wharfedale because it has close to the same bass extension but can articulate faster, play bass notes with greater insight, and has a much smarter crossover which opens up possibilities that aren't an option with the Wharfedale. By comparison, the Wharfedale is slightly cruder. Here's what I think is the crucial difference. The Wharfedale sounds like it's trying hard whereas the Gemini II is effortless. Putting it very crudely, it's easier to provoke the SW150 in to banging and crashing about that some people might misinterpret as being more bassy. The Gemini II is better at keeping things under control. Neither sub though has the power and size to produce room-shaking teeth-rattling bass.

Comparing either of those subs to your CA S80, they've each got a bigger bass cone and more power. Your S80 has a 6.5" driver and 50 Watts according to the spec sheet I've seen. That means it will reach its limit of performance far sooner and so start hitting its end-stops. That makes any sub noticeable, but not in a good way.

How much bass you think is enough is a very personal decision. I've just helped a guy from South Wales upgrade his system. At first, I thought you and he were the same person, but you're not. His old sub is a Yamaha. For him, the upgrade to a Gemini II was a massive step up. For you, it could be that your desire for bass won't be satisfied until you hit a £500+ sub with 12" driver and 500W. Even then, that might not be enough.

In the mean time, I think you should work on the sub settings and positioning until you decide what your next move will be.

Start with positioning. A corner placement will give the biggest amount of bass boost (quantity) but rarely give the best bass quality. It's a trade-off depending on your priorities. A better place is at 1/3rd of the room width or room length. For your room that is 122" wide x 144" long then that means either marking a point 44.5" across the width, or 48" along the room length, and then placing the sub at either one of those two points. This will give you the most even bass.

Next, your seating position up against the back wall is working against you for sound. Divide the room length in to 1/5ths or 1/7ths. If possible, move your sofa away from the back wall so so that your head is at a 1/5th point, or at least a 1/7th point.

Finally, if the sub isn't loud enough then adjust its level in the speaker menu or via the Gain dial on the back.

Anything that would give a similar impact but around the £500 mark?
BK Monolith or Monolith+ is about the closest you'll get for around £500
 
Mobster
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I thought this might help show the dimensions I am working with.

qzfASc0.jpg

Due to the layout of the room, I have to be ~337cm away from the screen - this photo is taken at that position - so achieving what I understand to be ideal - an equilateral triangle - is always going to be impossible.

However, I could place the speakers within the 39cm gap beside the TV at a slightly higher level - ear height - to hopefully improve the soundstage. Would this provide a decent benefit?
 
Soldato
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Even if you wanted a better sub you may not be able to fit it.

For example checkout dimensions of the svs pb ultra 16.

If you got rid of the green chair send back the gemini should have space for svs sb ultra 13 or svs SB ultra 16. But you're looking at £1500-£2500 for those models.
 
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