US election 2012

[doodah]

I found it strange that America has so few women in positions of political power. They rank 80th in the world with 17% of positions filled by women

Compared to even Afghanistan at 57% and Iran at 25%! Not a good record by the US there.

True but probably much fewer stories of women getting punished for doing ordinary day to day activities with men other than their husband.

 

[Morbius]

I found it strange that America has so few women in positions of political power. They rank 80th in the world with 17% of positions filled by women

Six states have constitutions that prohibit atheists from holding public office (although it could be argued that this is unconstitutional).

 

[Munky1080]

So I assume, then, that after having moved to the UK, you insist on paying for your doctors appointments on the NHS out of your own pocket?

Beggers belief that anyone could be against certain aspects of 'big government', such as universal healthcare.

I can see the appeal of Romney if you're a multi-millionaire, but since 99.9% arent.....

I already pay for my NHS doctor out of my own pocket. I pay nearly £200 / month in NI, and another £400 in taxes. the company I work for also pays about £180 / month in NI for me. I'd say I've paid plenty towards my doctor. Having lived on both sides of the pond, I prefer the private insurance model though, as I don't have to wait for six months for a dentist. With that being said, I was always employed and had private insurance, except for a year in my early 20's. People tend to forget though, that there is a facility called Medicaid for those who are on low incomes or don't work.

I'm no millionaire; heck, I'm closer to the bottom 1%, but I think in American, as someone has said earlier, it's not an "us versus them" mentality that a lot of Conservatives have. The average NASCAR fan isn't rich, but votes conservative because we understand that lower taxes benefits everyone. It may benefit the "rich" more (as they obviously have more money), but in the end we all win.

 

[Freakbro]

True but probably much fewer stories of women getting punished for doing ordinary day to day activities with men other than their husband.

Not sure about that if you take Domestic Violence figures from the US in account...Hell, about 3 women per week* are killed in the UK from domestic violence, it just doesn't reported as much.

* edited

 

[Munky1080]

Because you are the richest country on Earth maybe? It was hardly going to be papa New Guinea was it. Now let's see how much is given based on relative wealth.

Anyway the report you linked to states Australia is the most generous, with the US laying in 6th in that table.

Meant to use this link - just goes to show that there's data and statistics for anything out there

https://www.cafonline.org/pdf/world_giving_index_2011_191211.pdf

 

[Munky1080]

No gambling, hookers and other vices in texas then?

Oh totally - although where I lived, it was a "Dry County", meaning you could only buy beer, no wine or spirits. That was quickly remedied with a half-hour drive to the next County.

You've hit the nail on the head though, we want to choose where we spend our money. If it's hookers and gambling, so be it, but it's hard to do when the Feds take more and more and more out of your pay. Also, along with that comes personal responsibility - If I did, while living there, spend all my money on booze, hookers, and gambling, I wouldn't expect someone else to step in a pick up the pieces. That's called enabling, and it doesn't work.

 

[Sankari]

Being born in Texas, I feel qualified to retort. In Texas, we don't like big government. Heck, about half of America just wants to live their own lives, and be responsible for themselves. It doesn't mean we're dumb or don't care about people - just look at all the great charities, and the sense of community we have down there. We would rather just keep our money in our pockets and be responsible with it - something the Federal Government is wholly incapable of doing.

Mate, I've heard all the canned rhetoric a thousand times. I know how you rationalise your desire to ensure that 30% of the nation can't afford healthcare. I have plenty of friends in Texas, I've spent time there, and I've talked with the local libertarians.

I've also noted that the greatest opponents to universal healthcare are typically the least educated and have never travelled outside their own country. This cannot be a coincidence.

Your prejudice against what you call 'big government' is merely a post-colonial hangover from the War of Independence and has little relevance to positive, productive, equitable policies like universal healthcare.

Republican presidential nominees know they can take you by the tail and turn you in any direction they like as long as they invoke the spectre of 'big government.' It doesn't matter what the issue is; as soon as they utter those magic words, you'll sit up and vote how they tell you.

Countries with universal healthcare pay less for it and receive superior outcomes with more efficient services. The USA pays more than anyone else and receives inferior outcomes with less efficient services. That's the reality.

The United States spends more on healthcare than any other country in the world but has higher rates of infant mortality, diabetes and other ills than many other developed countries.

(Source).

I live in Australia. We have free universal healthcare funded by general taxation.

I can visit my local medical centre without an appointment, and I'll be guaranteed to see a doctor on the same day (I think the longest I've ever waited is about an hour). This service is free. My medication is subsidised, so I only pay $5 per prescription rather than the full rate of $55.

In Australia, nobody is required to buy private health insurance, but they can if they want to. People who buy private health insurance receive a 30% rebate on their premiums from the government. They are still allowed to use the free government health service any time they like.

In Australia, private health insurance companies are allowed to sell their products nationally, unrestricted by state lines. Thanks to government regulation, they are not permitted to refuse insurance on the basis of age or pre-existing conditions.

Even if you have a permanent illness, a private health insurer must allow you to purchase the insurance package of your choice. If they refuse, they may be liable for prosecution under the Private Health Insurance Act 2007.

The government also provides a website where people can compare policies from different private healthcare insurers to get the best deal. Policies are not 'one-size-fits-all', but can be tailored to meet individual needs.

This is my local hospital:

It's a government hospital. It's within walking distance. It's free.

So don't give me that 'big government' ********. It's a load of ****.

Romney is a Mormon and thus worships Christ, hence he is a Christian.

I'm afraid it's not quite that simple.

 

[SmellyFingers]

Anywya after they elected Bush a second time, through freewill rather than him cheating, the US population deserve all the get.

The fact that Bush had two terms should automatically grant any President after him at least two terms before another re-election.

 

[Bloomfield]

Meant to use this link - just goes to show that there's data and statistics for anything out there

https://www.cafonline.org/pdf/world_giving_index_2011_191211.pdf

USA are ranked 10th according to that in %age of population giving money?

 

[Sankari]

You've hit the nail on the head though, we want to choose where we spend our money.

Australians do too. The difference is, we can actually do it. You can't. You're forced to spend money on private healthcare insurance. I'm not. I can use the public system, I can buy insurance, or I can use both at any time I like. You don't have that choice.

So what you're really saying is that you'd prefer to waste your money on unaffordable health insurance that's so insanely expensive it regularly bankrupts people, instead of paying a fraction of the price for high quality government-provided healthcare. OK...

When I was in Texas earlier this year, I told my friends about the government healthcare system we have here in Australia. Eyes bulged; jaws dropped. It was almost impossible for them to believe that there can be such a thing as free, good quality healthcare, funded and managed by the government.

Within the space of 5 minutes I destroyed every negative stereotype they'd ever heard about universal healthcare. It was like watching children discover that Santa Claus really does exist.

In Australia, the leader of the conservative party recently campaigned on an election promise to protect our national healthcare system and ensure it had adequate funding. That would never happen in the USA.

 

[realBabelfish]

More misdirection and showmanship, have everyone focus on the guys who sit in the seat and do nothing to change the same people paying people to vote on bills the way that favours them every time.

If there were two guys, saying exactly the same thing, they get in power, and nothing changes on the surface people might just notice that the government is run by a bunch of retards whose "opinions" and votes, are paid for, and it doesn't matter who is in charge.

By having a stark contrast in people up for election it makes stupid people feel that if they vote for someone saying something completely different..... there will be a different outcome.

Rubbish, the little things, daft votes on daft crap that doesn't really matter, the ultra left leaning twit hasn't done a thing on getting tax off the super rich, neither has Labour "the working mans party" done anything about getting tax off rich people here.

I mean, oil companies, restrictions, safety, real health care, real taxation, real withdrawal from war, real reduction in defence spending, etc, things the country needs. But nothing changed under Obama, increase in defence spending, still at war, lied about when he'd pull out of war, loads of grandeous promises about renewable energy to happen 25 years after he's out of power. What is still happening, rich people get rich, dodgy banking system still makes rich people richer, people manipulate the markets, manipulate the votes, move jobs to where ever makes them the most money, pay little to no real corporation tax.

Which democratic party has managed to fix corporation tax loopholes, none, who is out their trying to level the playing field in society, no one. The next four years, be it Obama or Romney in charge will be lots of big talk, no action on any of it, and lots of stupid rubbish taking up all the time, how late can you have an abortion, real "emotional" bills that take up loads of media focus while the god damned epic world changing stuff that needs to happen is quietly brushed under the carpet by someone talking up about abortion or gay marraige again.

The crucial stuff, nothing has changed under Obama, the little stuff, changes, and makes no difference, and plenty of that will be changed back the other way under Romney, and changed back again under the next democrat, and the huge stuff, like taxing the rich rather than taxing the poor and letting the rich hide their money and screw the country.... won't ever change.

Its a bit show, making people think if they vote for a different person they'll get change, they don't, so they vote for a completely different guy again, and get no real change, etc, etc, etc.

i guess its hard to change things in such a backward country. i still cant believe that 50% of americans believe the devil exists! let alone how many believe in various religious fairies of some sort.

obama is definitely the best of the 2 but that isnt saying much. romney says he hates poor people yet the poor vote for him thinking he will look after them! :facepalm:

they still think healthcare is evil yet dont realize they will all be better off... no vast sums of money going to private companies that avoid tax.

then the obsession with guns like a small child or a paranoid freak.

i wonder if its because they are so insular and unaware of what goes on in the rest of the world? i remember seeing a survey a few years ago where half of school leavers couldnt point out the USA on a globe without the country names on it! seriously? stop learning who the last 50 presidents were and learn something real and useful.

 

[Morbius]

Within the space of 5 minutes I destroyed every negative stereotype they'd ever heard about universal healthcare. It was like watching children discover that Santa Claus really does exist.

This is the big problem. Overcoming the stereotypes. I've been called a communist by some Americans because I'm in favour of universal healthcare.

 

[stealthgeek]

I already pay for my NHS doctor out of my own pocket. I pay nearly £200 / month in NI, and another £400 in taxes. the company I work for also pays about £180 / month in NI for me. I'd say I've paid plenty towards my doctor. Having lived on both sides of the pond, I prefer the private insurance model though, as I don't have to wait for six months for a dentist. With that being said, I was always employed and had private insurance, except for a year in my early 20's. People tend to forget though, that there is a facility called Medicaid for those who are on low incomes or don't work.

I'm no millionaire; heck, I'm closer to the bottom 1%, but I think in American, as someone has said earlier, it's not an "us versus them" mentality that a lot of Conservatives have. The average NASCAR fan isn't rich, but votes conservative because we understand that lower taxes benefits everyone. It may benefit the "rich" more (as they obviously have more money), but in the end we all win.

If you think that a couple of hundred a month comes close to the actual costs of even minor surgery, you are sadly mistaken. Ive lost count of the number of expat Americans here in the UK who cant wait to tell me how much their operations would have cost in the US, and how they cant believe we take it for granted here. One guy before he moved said an op on his shoulder was going to cost him around $80k, but after moving to the UK, this was seen to for *free*.

The sad thing is, with less tax going into the system, those NASCAR fans are losing out whilst thinking they are benefitting.

 

[Robbo]

Really hope Obama wins, I think he will. Romney seems incredibly dodgy.

 

[J-FRO]

For me the most demonstrative way in which the US electoral system works can be seen from the 1860 election. But I don't mean by way of geographical safe states and swing states etc.

What the 1860 election shows is how you could have less than 50% of the popular vote, but still win the presidency in the electoral college (which Abe did according to wiki - and not by my memory - by 180 electoral college votes to a combined 123 for the other three candidates).

Of course in that election one of the points in which led the vote to swing Republican was because the Democrats split their vote, but that was due to a lot of animosity over the slavery issue and a few other minor points which historians have argued could also be the cause but aren't likely.

I think as I've got no work tomorrow I might get some beers in and stay up and watch this tonight

 

[Sankari]

While we're on the subject of 'big government', let's check the ACLU report cards:

Obama wins every time. Vote Romney/Ryan to lose your liberties under the jackboot of fascism!

This is the big problem. Overcoming the stereotypes. I've been called a communist by some Americans because I'm in favour of universal healthcare.

The Texans tried to tell me that the Democrats are 'left-wing liberals.' When I'd finished laughing I pointed out that the Democrats would be considered right-wing in Australia, even by our Labor party.

One lady asked me: 'So what are they, Communists?!'

Utterly priceless. You couldn't make it up.

 

[Judgeneo]

Obama wins every time. Vote Romney/Ryan to lose your liberties under the jackboot of fascism!

You do realise the "?" Means either no stated opinion or no information has been gathered? If you were to ignore those then Ryan would be on a similar pegging to Obama

 

[Moothead2]

You do realise the "?" Means either no stated opinion or no information has been gathered? If you were to ignore those then Ryan would be on a similar pegging to Obama

He really isn't .

 

[footman]

We are in Florida now and have been for 10 days so I've been able to watch it all unfold. The level of misinformation that's being generated by the republicans to show how badly the country is doing is staggering.

What's even more staggering is the outright hatred the conservatives in this southern state have for anyone else.
Obama is alternately a nazi or a communist or even an Islamic spy. The woman who owns the house were in simply does not believe me when I told her about the level of health care we have, she thinks that it's soviet domination and we just haven't seen it!

The people next door think that all democrats are socialist thieves and baby killers and actually long for segregation to be re-introduced.

I'm going fishing.

 

[Strife212]

While we're on the subject of 'big government', let's check the ACLU report cards:

http://i.imgur.com/MHyAd.jpg]image[/ig]

[b]Obama wins every time.[/b] Vote Romney/Ryan to lose your liberties under the jackboot of fascism![/QUOTE]

Lol. They're both exactly the same. Scaling up the drone war. Indefinite detention. Obama's government has been inseparable from Bush's. Obama may be more progressive on social issues like homosexuality and abortion but that's it.

3 Torches for Obama on stopping torture, you've got to laugh really.