Valencia - Spain - EUROPEAN Grand Prix 2009 - Race 11/17

Soldato
Joined
6 Mar 2003
Posts
6,231
Location
West Lothian
The McLarens should have enough pace to win this race I think, Barrichello won't get anywhere near them off the start and it wouldn't surprise me to see a good 10 - 15 second lead around the first round of pit stops.

Raikkonen will jump Button and probably Vettel at the start using Kers.

Top 4 will be (IMO): Hamilton, Kovalainen, Barrichello and Raikkonen
 
Associate
Joined
20 Jun 2007
Posts
1,596
Location
Nottingham
20 laps for Barrichello, he must have had a amazing lap to be P3.

only 0.065s off the P1

he will lose them off the start, but if Heikki keeps up with Hamilton (and don't slow him down) he will jump them both when they pit.

bad show form Button realy, but he should be able to get the better of Vettel.
 
Last edited:
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
48,796
Location
All over the world...
Looks like the honeymoon is over for Button...he hasnt been all that competitive in the last couple of races has he??...still want him to win the championship though only because Lewis is out of the running...or is he??.
 
Associate
Joined
20 Jun 2007
Posts
1,596
Location
Nottingham
Looks like the honeymoon is over for Button...he hasnt been all that competitive in the last couple of races has he??...still want him to win the championship though only because Lewis is out of the running...or is he??.

whats the maths of him doing it? i know its technically possible.

doesn't he have to win the rest of the races with the brawn and RBR cars blowing up in each race.

edit.

a bit of maths on the above.

for Hamilton to win.

Hamilton - wins next 7 races. Finish with 89points
Button - averages no more than 2.71per race - Finish with 89 but Hamilton wins with more race wins.
Webber - averages no more than 5.29per race - Finish with 88.5
Vettel - averages no more than 6 per race - Finish with 89 but Hamilton wins with more race wins.

it gets silly after this.

but what this highlights that after this race it will or wont relay be possible. if vettel takes Button out on the start, and considering where webber is on the grid it actually becomes remotely possible.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
20 Apr 2007
Posts
3,467
20 laps for Barrichello, he must have had a amazing lap to be P3.


both mclarens were going much faster before kovi screwed his final sector and hamilton pitted early.

the mclarens seem to be pretty good with the fuel as well they always seem to get an extra lap somewhere.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Posts
22,598
Thats very interesting - Kimi will be ahead of Button and probably Vettel at the start, but I dont think he will be able to handle their race pace, if Button can glue himself to Kimi's tail he could save a laps worth of fuel and blitz him in the first stop (or 2nd if RBrawn's tactics are at their best)

I would still expect to see Jenson beat Rubens across the finish line, his race pace is so superior its untrue

I would go for Hamilton to use his outright pace and KERS to win with Jenson 2nd and Vettel or Kimi 3rd

Being a very dusty circuit its possible that people in the odd positions may well get a slight advantage over even places also

Hop0ing for a decent race for Jenson / Brawn

Looks like the honeymoon is over for Button...he hasnt been all that competitive in the last couple of races has he??.

Significant difference is that the Brawn's are starting heavier than most of the top 10 tomorrow and yet arent that far off the lap times - last few races they have started light.

Depending on what happens to Lewis, I actually think Jenson still has a good chance of winning the race - yes he himself admitted to losing a tenth or two in his last run, which maybe shouldnt have happened but given the weights he is still in a reasonable position for a decent podium finish imo
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
11,038
Location
Romford/Hornchurch, Essex
:rolleyes: I hate that dumb argument. It's not a question of whether any of us could do better, but it's clear other qualified drivers could. Just look at Grosjean and Alguersauri. The testing ban only came in 8 months ago, up until then Badoer was testing all the time.

Badoer was never quick, now he's well over the hill and dangerously slow.

If I'm honest i hate that argument too, i dunno why i used it! :o Still testing is totally different to race craft, of which he has almost none. At least he's used to starting at the back of the grid i suppose, just this time in a red car and not a black one (Minardi were black then weren't they?)
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
15,861
Location
NW London

Finally. The message has got through that racing without KERS is like walking into a gunfight without any bullets in your gun. Before the season started I thought it was crazy for any team to race without KERS. They probably wont use KERS at Spa, but I'm glad they are at least thinking about it.

RedBull havent qualified particularly well and if Webber wants to win the title, he will certainly need a car that can either consistently qualify in pole OR a car equipped with KERS.

It looks like the McLarens are genuinely quick, now that both drivers are showing pace. As for Hamilton - I've said it before and I'll say it again - he is the real deal and has a good chance to attack and break all the records that were set by MS. Even better is the fact that he is British. Traditionally, the Brits tend to be a little soft when it comes to being ruthless and this is where they let themselves down. However, Hamilton doesnt suffer from this problem.

Bearing in mind that McLaren and Ferrari have got their KERS devices working beautifully, it will be interesting to see if these 2 teams use KERS next year. It will be difficult for McLaren especially, to give up the KERS device, given the advantage that it gives Hamilton.

Its good to see that Brawn have stopped going backwards, though what is worrying is that over the last few races, Button has generally been slower than Barrichello, with Button getting ahead in the race, when the team "tinker" with Barrichello's strategy or hold him up in the pits. I still feel that Button has done enough during the first half of the season, to hang on. I'm not a fan of playboys, but I do hope he wins the title this year.

Badoer should be extremely embarrassed by his poor showing. At first I thought his lack of speed wasnt a big deal. But something that Coulthard said, showed just how bad he was. Coulthard stated that most drivers' warmup laps would probably be faster than Badoer's fastest laps. Badoer will probably hang on to his seat for the rest of the year though.

Ferrari NEED a shot in the arm. They are lacking a talisman and a talisman is VERY important. Previously, they had MS. Mclaren have Hamilton. When Renault won, they had Alonso. Next year couldnt come soon enough and if I were them, I would do everything possible to bring Alonso to the team before 2010. To think that if Ferrari wanted, they could have Alonso driving in place of (the embarrassing) Badoer.

Toyota continue to flounder and I'm shocked that they havent yet announced their departure from F1. For those not in the know, Toyota have the biggest budget in F1, ever seen. And as we are seeing, their results are not correlating to their spending levels. The bosses back in Japan will not be happy at what has and is happening in Toyota F1.

For Hamilton fans (like me), tomorrow's race should be great as he is in great shape to win it.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Posts
22,598
whats the maths of him doing it? i know its technically possible.

doesn't he have to win the rest of the races with the brawn and RBR cars blowing up in each race.

Lewis is 51 points behind in the drivers standings with 7 races to go

if its hot again tomorrow expect those heavy on fuel to eat there soft rear tyres.

You mean like Monaco where Brawn's where reasonably ok with their tyre wear?

If anything it being hotter would probably suit Brawn's more than anyone else
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Posts
22,598
Its good to see that Brawn have stopped going backwards, though what is worrying is that over the last few races, Button has generally been slower than Barrichello, with Button getting ahead in the race, when the team "tinker" with Barrichello's strategy or hold him up in the pits. I still feel that Button has done enough during the first half of the season, to hang on. I'm not a fan of playboys, but I do hope he wins the title this year.

.

Know many playboys that compete in Triathalon's do you?

Button has beaten Rubens in every race fairly and squarely - the team havent had to make any tinkering, Rubens just isnt as fast as Jenson on race day (and he is rarely in quali either).

Rubens may be able to get a few decent laps out of the car, but his race pace is all over the place - the only thing that is on Rubens side is that he can probably drive a bad car better than Jenson, but as soon as the car performs as it should Jenson slaughters the Brazilian

I really can't see McLaren sticking to the 'FOTA gentlemens agreement' to ban KERS next year.

Agreed - its against their better interest to not use it (wthout considering the investment they have put into it )
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
15,861
Location
NW London
with no testing though red bull will be adding kers blind to there cars.

getting the balance and braking sorted could be a nightmare.

I think the RedBull team know that if they want to challenge for the title (and this season is probably their best chance, assuming that Ferrari and McLaren will restore normal service next year), they have to shake things up in some way. If they continue like they are doing now, they will have to rely on Button breaking down. In saying this, I think RedBull will be conservative and decide against KERS...for the time being at least.
 
Soldato
Joined
25 Jan 2006
Posts
2,671
Location
Birmingham
Have we had a KERS car on pole yet this season? When they are 5th - 8th they usually fly past and get up the grid. With 2 KERS cars on the front, with no one in their way, they are going to blast away. And with Barrichello in 3rd, and with a heavier car, I reckon he will slow the rest down as he doesn't usually start too well.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
15,861
Location
NW London
Know many playboys that compete in Triathalon's do you?

Yep. His name is Jenson Button.

Winning triathlons doesnt make you a committed/great F1 driver. Winning races and devoting all your time and effort to F1 does make you a committed and great F1 driver, as Hamilton is showing now and MS showed before him.

If I were him, I would be spending time in the simulator, rather then spending time in the sunshine, taking part in triathlons and going on holiday's with the girlfriend (which he seems to change almost annually). Last year, when Hamilton was going for the title, he was totally committed and Hamilton Snr, declined Button's offer of a race. Hamilton Snr knew that a top line driver shouldnt be wasting time with triathlons, in the middle of the season.

Button has beaten Rubens in every race fairly and squarely - the team havent had to make any tinkering, Rubens just isnt as fast as Jenson on race day (and he is rarely in quali either).

We shall have to agree to disagree on this point.

Button has definitely been more consistent over the course of the season, but in the last few races, from what I remember, Barrichello has been hampered by problems when he arrives in the pits. In one instance, his race strategy was changed in order to allow Button to finish ahead of him on the race track. Another time, his pit stop took an usually long time to complete. As team boss, I would've also done exactly the same (as Button is the guy spearheading the WDC attack), but to say that Button finished ahead of Barrichello on merit, in the last few races, is wrong.
 
Soldato
Joined
1 Sep 2004
Posts
4,025
Location
Woking, Surrey
Toyota continue to flounder and I'm shocked that they havent yet announced their departure from F1. For those not in the know, Toyota have the biggest budget in F1, ever seen. And as we are seeing, their results are not correlating to their spending levels. The bosses back in Japan will not be happy at what has and is happening in Toyota F1.
I did read somewhere that theres been a change at the top of Toyota and the new man is keen on motorsport. There is some talk of Toyota developing a more sporty roadcar which could be helped by promotion through F1. So Toyota may have a reason to stay in F1, they just need to bring their budget down, which the new rules will do over the next 2 years.
 
Back
Top Bottom