Valve Slammed By Consumer Protection, Issued Cease And Desist On Anti-Consumerist EULA

Sleepery said:
Games companies have been getting away with murder since digital distribution went mainstream, about time they were slapped into order.
Click to expand...

And the indie guy selling a game for £5 who loses out on a sale, who lives hand to mouth to help develop his next game, what do you say to him?

Many are thinking of the corporate, greedy publishers of old and quick to get their whip out, forgetting that amongst that crowd are the poor souls who to them, making games is an art form what they love and they produce amazing content.

I am sure to many of them, this would be nothing more than legalised piracy.
 
Last edited:
Gimpymoo said:
All it would do is harm the industry.

Unfortunately though, the luddite mob at the gate are insisting they do this and the law makers who also have no idea what they are doing have sided with them.
Click to expand...

Like the way the second hand book trade has been destroying the publishing industry for years?

The truth is you have no more idea than anyone else what effect allowing the re-sale of games would have on the industry. You're knee-jerking just as much as the 'luddites'.
 
Sleepery said:
Like the way the second hand book trade has been destroying the publishing industry for years?

The truth is you have no more idea than anyone else what effect allowing the re-sale of games would have on the industry. You're knee-jerking just as much as the 'luddites'.
Click to expand...

The book trade has noting to do with second hand games, you cannot compare two different industries and then say "Well, what about this".

If every second hand book on the market was in "MINT" shrink wrapped condition however....?

It is not "knee jerk" to say smaller developers/publishers within the industry will be affected, this would be fact.

Not to mention the long term effect of it not being financially viable to develop single player campaign games. It would become lawful piracy in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Antar Bolaeisk said:
I do agree that forcing people to accept the EULA is wrong, there should be an ability to say no and still have access to all your games purchased under the original EULA you agreed to but you're just not allowed to buy anything else until you agree to the new EULA.

I hope this doesn't result in Steam being forced to provide a service allowing people to sell on their games as there's no such thing as a used digital game.
Click to expand...

Greenman gaming do it quite well, though in a different respect. they buy back the used key for a lower price.
 
Gimpymoo said:
The book trade has noting to do with second hand games, you cannot compare two different industries and then say "Well, what about this".

If every second hand book on the market was in "MINT" shrink wrapped condition however....?
Click to expand...
Perhaps if a digital copy did not lose value but it does, old games get reduced in price digital copy or not.
 
Divinious said:
How exactly please explain?
Not a troll just curious how you see it really :)
Click to expand...

Because unlike virtually any other second hand market, you get a copy that is absolutely 100% identical to the new - so why would people buy new when 'second hand' is cheaper but exactly the same?

It's different to physical products that get worn out, torn, scratched, scuffed, bent, twisted etc. etc. In those cases (ie. a book or a car or something) you get an inferior product for your cheaper price, that some people are happy to accept and others aren't.

Digital games however, completely different kettle of fish.

Either new sales will go down or companies will start incorporating the sort of stupid features we've seen recently on console games with one time use codes to access online features that you have to buy from the publisher for a fiver if you buy second hand.
 
Divinious said:
Perhaps if a digital copy did not lose value but it does, old games get reduced in price digital copy or not.
Click to expand...

Prices reduce because demand lowers.

I would guess that such reductions would be less common place as developers/publishers need to recoup the money not gained from those purchasing directly from others. They cannot win either way as regardless of the price they set, private sellers will simply set their price lower.
 
I for one think it's a great move forward.

Why on earth should I buy something, then be told I can no longer have access to it if I don't abide by certain rules set by the retailer?

Imagine buying a TV from Argos for example and being told you cannot watch Sky 1, and if you do they will come and repossess the TV, offering you no refund...

Yeh that would go down well.
 
djkav said:
Your not really buying them, its just a long term rental agreement.

That's the thing I don't like about Steam. You pay full retail price to just in effect "rent the game long term". They should have had a subscription model in place like Lovefilm, Netflix etc. I play XX monthly and I get to play XX games. To play another I would have to uninstall X game to make room.

Yes I do use steam, but I don't have to agree with their view.
Click to expand...

Isn't that the same for any software or entertainment (movie, music, etc), physical or digital, that you buy? You're never buying the actual product, just buying access to it. Steam is effectively no different.
 
BlackDragon said:
Isn't that the same for any software or entertainment (movie, music, etc), physical or digital, that you buy? You're never buying the actual product, just buying access to it. Steam is effectively no different.
Click to expand...

You buy a license to use/watch normally.

However the distinction is, you are still buying that license and are free to sell that license.

Where Valve differ is they're trying to circumvent this second hand sales thing in the EU by saying, actually you haven't bought anything, we've just indefinitely rented it to you, thus meaning you've never bought a product to be able to resell in the first place.
 
Kenai said:
Where Valve differ is they're trying to circumvent this second hand sales thing in the EU by saying, actually you haven't bought anything, we've just indefinitely rented it to you, thus meaning you've never bought a product to be able to resell in the first place.
Click to expand...

To be fair, this has been the way with Steam since Day 1, they have not done it to "circumvent" this ruling. It has just always been this way with Steam.
 
I see Gimpy's point on the matter, especially regarding indie devs. It's not quite legalised piracy though - when you sell on a digital game, you lose access to it yourself, so there's no copy being made.

The thing is, we're at a turning point regarding consumable entertainment. In twenty years, it's ALL going to be digital. Books, films, games, everything. A precedent needs to be set regarding purchasing and ownership of digital goods, or we'll have no rights to the stuff we're spending money on in a few years.

Claiming people are torch wielding luddites for being concerned about this doesn't help though.
 
Kenai said:
You buy a license to use/watch normally.

However the distinction is, you are still buying that license and are free to sell that license.

Where Valve differ is they're trying to circumvent this second hand sales thing in the EU by saying, actually you haven't bought anything, we've just indefinitely rented it to you, thus meaning you've never bought a product to be able to resell in the first place.
Click to expand...

Ah right, I can see the point.

Could it be that Valve made this decision to make it less appealing to steal Steam accounts, sell off all the games, and causing a mess that Valve then needs to deal with?

Personally, it doesn't bother me that I can't sell on my Steam games.
 
What people have got their knickers in a twist about though (and rightly so) is being forced into a position where they have to agree to not sue Valve at any point in the future or lose access to everything they've bought for the last several years.

It's a dick move and it can only be a good thing that someone is trying to bring them to task over it. Hopefully similar is (or will be) happening for the other companies who have all done the same.

We don't want to get into a situation where a precedent has been set that it's A-OK to just add in whatever clauses you like to your EULAs whenever you want, without any fallout.
 
Way I see it, Valve/Steams model has allowed me to enjoy more games, get easier access, while being cheaper.

I may not agree with some things, but it's certainly the best situation at the moment.

And PC gaming has benefited from it.
 
Sleepery said:
The thing is, we're at a turning point regarding consumable entertainment. In twenty years, it's ALL going to be digital. Books, films, games, everything. A precedent needs to be set regarding purchasing and ownership of digital goods, or we'll have no rights to the stuff we're spending money on in a few years.

Claiming people are torch wielding luddites for being concerned about this doesn't help though.
Click to expand...

Very good point. There needs to be, ummm, a degree of common sense about it.

It should be an exchange with the publishing house and the platform is just used as a distribution or hosting platform, which you can change like you can a broadband provider.

The publishing house could give you support, DLC etc, as an original purchaser. Any secondary owners do not get those entitlements, so you differentiate the marketplace between new and used products. Or you sell your game with 1000 hours of access, and that then gets used up, so second hand well used titles will be worth a lot less. Or just all move to subscription models but which are priced proportionately on usage (weren't they talking about subscription models a while back? Maybe they will be revisited).
 
Gimpymoo said:
Like I care what the Germans say.

Are we talking about the same people who have over the top game censorship?

Yes, of course I will listen to what they have to say :rolleyes:

They need to get their own house in order before criticising anyone else.

Since I agreed to the EULA, has GabeN kidnapped my Steam account and sent me a postcard of him giving it "sexy time" on a beach.......... NO !!!
Click to expand...


oh now youve done it, youve given me the sexy image of gabe in a mankini bending over your steam account!
but yeah, who cares about zie germans. theyre not exactly pro gaming!
 
If Digitals games are able to be sold second hand, you'll likely not see the same price drops we see now, sales will also drop.

See, when you get a price drop at 75% or whatnot, you're effectively buying at near enough the same price you would buy a second hand game, however the money goes to the right people, and doesn't get taken away from the developers,

With it being a digital copy there's less incentive to buy brand new if there's the exact same product available cheaper second hand.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom