VARcical Decision
- Thread starter G-MAN2004
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I mean to be fair...City should be deducted 19 points for other reasons, but thats a whole other topic
Soldato
And it begins. Expect this to happen all the time as clubs social media mock Klopp 
I agree with you and not suggesting that we should accept bad decisions from VAR but I still find it feels a bit strange that the period when we have on average the most accurate decisions (since VAR introduced) is the also the period with seemingly the most controversy. It's like we've gone from 10% errors to 3% errors (made up numbers) yet have twice the drama.
I guess maybe it was because the absence of goalline tech / VAR could always be used as an excuse "oh human error, lino couldn't see that at full speed" and was generally brushed over apart from a few extreme scenarios like 1966 or Lampard's "goal", but then this scenario appears to be not a failure of the technology but again more of a human/communication error. So if we are prepared to pile in on human error now, why didn't we do it more in the past?
To be clear, I do think they need to review the processes and establish clearer comms, cricket is an example where in they nearly always seem to have a clear consistent process to run through with less ambiguous language that this Liverpool thing but I'll caveat that by saying the majority of 3rd umpire reviews are quite formulaic - front foot, does it hit bat or pad, ball tracking etc. Rock and roll the frames to see if a batsman if bat is grounded when bails come off etc. Then a clear statement back to the umpire "Recommend you stay with / change your original decision of out/not out". Football is a lot more 'random' with players in different positions every time, in cricket they have cameras specifically set up for front on / side on which helps the majority of calls, whereas in football the offsides are in random places, there's no equivalent of the camera at square used for run outs.
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Soldato
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And it begins. Expect this to happen all the time as clubs social media mock Klopp
There will be countless examples, I seen one when Drogba scored against United at old Trafford with the title on the line. Massive game.
It’s probably a good thing that it happened to Liverpool as there has been such a big out cry that it’ll hopefully spark a change.
One good thing to come out of this mess - apart from the obvious improvements to the var process - is the sheer number of people you thought possessed a modicum of intellect showing they really are borderline mentally challenged. The opposite is also true though, some people you thought were a bit of a joker have come out of this with some great, thoughtful takes.
An example of VAR reviewing a decision, being factually incorrect with a yes or no call, realising they made a mistake and not changing it or simply an error?
Soldato
Does it matter? If the wrong decision was given no matter how its still wrong. Every team can feel aggrieved by more than one decision I'm sure.
Soldato
Spurs social media having fun with Spurs fans with this notification though the app today. Turns out its for the WSL match
You do understand the difference between a subjective decision (red card for a tackle or handball for a penalty) or even a missed offside due to camera angles not being available and what happened in the game right? Because by the look if it you really don't.
Soldato
When others can see an offside clearly isn't or is then it isn't subjective is it, its human error. This is the worst case of human error but it isn't the only case of human error.
What is required is to take the human element out of the equation. Work on an AI version that can make these decisions quicker and more accurately.
OK you don't understand the difference. Glad we got that sorted.
Soldato
If that makes you feel you better you go with it.
Jota red card at Spurs was incorrect, panel says
The Premier League's Independent Key Match Incidents Panel has ruled Diogo Jota should not have been sent off in Liverpool's controversial 2-1 defeat at Tottenham.
I think you've answered the question yourself. Pre-VAR we accepted that refs wouldn't make 100% accurate decisions when they've got one chance to view an incident at full speed. With VAR there are fewer excuses for mistakes happening and as such we're not as understanding of those mistakes. I also think the way in which we're using the technology and in particular the whole 'clear and obvious' line confuses things (for fans and officials) and creates more controversy. I've always been of the view that VAR for subjective calls is a waste of time but when you have a system that allows two identical incidents to result in two completely different outcomes and be told both decisions were correct, how are supporters meant to understand and accept what you're doing? Again I'm completely against VAR for subjective decisions but if you're going to continue with it, just allow the VAR to make whatever the correct decision is - forget about whether it's wrong enough to intervene because that just creates inconsistencies and more controversy.
I agree about the communication between the ref & var and said as much earlier in the thread. Hopefully one thing that comes from this incident is that because such a minor change would have prevented what happened from happening.
utterly pointless panel, 3-2 "would have" not given a yellow card - they've also never been a ref in their life, about as useful as any arm chair fan franklyJota red card at Spurs was incorrect, panel says
The Premier League's Independent Key Match Incidents Panel has ruled Diogo Jota should not have been sent off in Liverpool's controversial 2-1 defeat at Tottenham.www.espn.com
The problem is it becomes subjective as to what a subjective call is, I mean pretty much all straight red card offences are subjective (was it violent conduct, was it a goalscoring opportunity, was the handball deliberate etc) to some degree, but people get incensed when general concensus is a card was given erroneously.
Offsides you sometimes have a situation where it really isn't clear, so "make whatever the correct decision is" becomes subjective i.e. one person says its offside and someone else doesn't, one person gives a penalty and another doesn't. We can use this forum as an example, we frequently have differences of opinion about onfield decisions.
If we want to completely eradicate subjective decisions from VAR you basically end up with it not being used because there's the potential for nearly every decision to be subjective.