Vettel leaving Ferrari

[Mr Jack]

Super stoked for Carlos. Ever since he was at TR with Max I felt he got overlooked for being older.

I wish him well, he seems like a likeable chap, but I'm not really sure why people rate him particularly highly as a driver. His record pre-F1 is okay, but in F1 he got thoroughly outclassed by Max in what was their first season for both of them, but Max was 3 years younger. Then for two seasons he was comfortably beating Kvyat, but Kvyat was thoroughly demoralised after his undeserved demotion and never came close to recovering his form. Next, he was beaten by Hülkenberg, a driver who is practically the definition of solid midfielder. The only season he's really impressed at all was last season, when he was facing Norris in his rookie year.

Nothing there really speaks to me of a top tier driver; more a jobbing midfielder. Consistent but not that fast. I'll be delighted if he can prove me wrong in '21 and beyond.

 

[this_is_gav]

I wonder if Ferrari are expecting too much after their glory days of Schumacher and Brawn winning everything, especially in the face of a Mercedes works team and a Hamilton competing against them. Ferrari has to beat one of the best teams ever, and one of the best drivers ever, and Ferrari can't do that with the driver and team mistakes they are making.

That's just been Ferrari forever. Well, since their rivals in particularly the 50s faded away anyway. It was like that long before Schumacher and co turned up. It's quite an attitude when Ferrari constructors titles have added up to just eight in the preceding 39 years (there were no Constructors Championship until 1958) and just nine driver's titles in the 48 years before Schumacher won it in 2000. Granted he won five on the bounce and Raikkonen another a few years later, but Ferrari's attitude was extremely demanding long before that.

I suppose a lot of it is fan pressure as much as anything. It must affect all the staff, from the top down.

 

[RoboCod]

D/R

 

[BuffetSlayer]

It strikes me that Ferrari are all mixed up in their approach. Their entire business culture needs a shake up. If nothing else it has demonstrated it is not working but they seem to be in a state of perpetual paralysis. New team principle, same as the old team principle! It's clear the control is held elsewhere.

I think Sainz has potential, but I dont think he is WDC material. Solid performer but not great.

 

[this_is_gav]

I think Sainz has potential, but I dont think he is WDC material. Solid performer but not great.

That's why they signed him. To be a Ferrari's equivalent of Bottas, where all else being equal he probably won't challenge Leclerc, but ought to be quick enough to pick up regular points and take points from rival teams on the days they are the fastest team.

 

[englishpremier]

I can see him outscoring Leclerc. He's more consistent if slightly lacking the outright blistering pace.

 

[cainer]

Lewis's stock must have dropped due to Ferrari signing up Sainz so quickly,
maybe he should have negotiated his contract at Mercades a few weeks ago, now they don't have to pay him so much as he's no where else to go

 

[pacegod]

Lewis's stock must have dropped due to Ferrari signing up Sainz so quickly,
maybe he should have negotiated his contract at Mercades a few weeks ago, now they don't have to pay him so much as he's no where else to go

True, he's only a 6 time WC with 84 wins, probably not worth much any more!

 

[GravyMonster]

I see Abiteboul couldn't resist a dig at Ricciardo in the Renault statement. He's such a snide little weasel. It's also a bit hypocritical of him to talk about loyalty after Renault has dropped Palmer, Hulk, Sainz and Magnussen in the last 5 years.

 

[englishpremier]

I see Abiteboul couldn't resist a dig at Ricciardo in the Renault statement. He's such a snide little weasel. It's also a bit hypocritical of him to talk about loyalty after Renault has dropped Palmer, Hulk, Sainz and Magnussen in the last 5 years.

what's he got to be upset about? Renault should have been better. If Renault were winning races Ricciardo wouldn't have left, so the team only have themselves to blame.

 

[JBeck]

That's why they signed him. To be a Ferrari's equivalent of Bottas, where all else being equal he probably won't challenge Leclerc, but ought to be quick enough to pick up regular points and take points from rival teams on the days they are the fastest team.

No chance, he'll more than challenge him, Carlos is quicker than Seb and more consistent, and look how close him and Leclerc were at times.

I do not understand why people keep underestimating Carlos all the time, Ferrari seem to rate him.

Time will tell.

 

[cainer]

True, he's only a 6 time WC with 84 wins, probably not worth much any more!

i think you knew what i ment

 

[Mr Jack]

I do not understand why people keep underestimating Carlos all the time...

He got beat by Hulkenberg. Does anyone think Hulkenberg is top tier?

... Ferrari seem to rate him.

Hmm. Do they though? It seems more like they wanted a safe pair of hands who won't challenge Leclerc all that much. A return to the traditional Ferrari model of having a clear lead and a mid-tier second driver to get points and hold up opponents, rather than a vote for Sainz as a serious contender for future drivers champion. Ferrari barely seemed to know what to do when Leclerc rocked up and blatantly outclassed Vettel within a couple of races, and I don't think they want a repeat of that.

I don't think anyone thinks Sainz is bad; but there's no sign of him being genuinely good either.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

McLaren now has the two most popular drivers and with skills too, good move.

 

[413x]

As a Renault supporter I wonder if they should and will just drop out.
They are never going to be at the top again, no one wants their engines, the virus is surely taking a massive toll on the road car division profits

Time to shut up shop?

 

[this_is_gav]

Lewis's stock must have dropped due to Ferrari signing up Sainz so quickly,
maybe he should have negotiated his contract at Mercades a few weeks ago, now they don't have to pay him so much as he's no where else to go

I thought that when Wolff made his semi-interesting comments about Vettel being available, that it was just a ruse to lower Hamilton's demands, but I doubt Lewis would care much about that anyway. I think at this stage of his career Hamilton couldn't care less, and Toto might find his bluff very much called. Hamilton would probably be relatively happy to leave F1 and move on with his other options while he's as relevant as he'll ever be. He'll probably hold the option on any extension anyway.

If that's not the case, then Hamilton must have had some cast iron assurances from the Mercedes top brass, otherwise he's been spectacularly short sighted, as if Merc do pull the plug then Hamilton has zero options left. It's one thing saying any team would take him, as if there's a chance any with sufficient resources would, but the best team he's likely to have a chance with is Renault, and he's not going there.

He'd be a great fit with Red Bull from a PR sense, but he's not going to go and fight toe-to-toe with Verstappen. But if he wants to cement himself as one of the greats...

 

[JBeck]

He got beat by Hulkenberg. Does anyone think Hulkenberg is top tier?



Hmm. Do they though? It seems more like they wanted a safe pair of hands who won't challenge Leclerc all that much. A return to the traditional Ferrari model of having a clear lead and a mid-tier second driver to get points and hold up opponents, rather than a vote for Sainz as a serious contender for future drivers champion. Ferrari barely seemed to know what to do when Leclerc rocked up and blatantly outclassed Vettel within a couple of races, and I don't think they want a repeat of that.

I don't think anyone thinks Sainz is bad; but there's no sign of him being genuinely good either.

So Hulk scored better, I'm assuming you've taken into account all mechanical/team failures in that reasoning.

He put up some stellar performances against Max.

Personal opinions aside, we have never seen him in a top tier car so let's wait and see.

And I disagree about Ferrari wanting a mid-tier wingman, one quick driver and one mediocre driver do not win manufacturers world championships.

 

[Mr Jack]

So Hulk scored better, I'm assuming you've taken into account all mechanical/team failures in that reasoning.

Nico had seven retirements to Carlos' two...

Personal opinions aside, we have never seen him in a top tier car so let's wait and see.

Indeed. As I said earlier, I hope he surprises me.

And I disagree about Ferrari wanting a mid-tier wingman, one quick driver and one mediocre driver do not win manufacturers world championships.

Look through the recent history of Ferrari drivers, when have they ever had two genuinely top tier drivers they've let race. That's not their way; they have the strongest first-second driver setup of any team and have done for years. Their way is to get in a really good driver, and then fill the other seat with someone from the mid tier and make them play the team game. They want some one good enough to score points, but not good enough to challenge Leclerc and cause friction in the team.

 

[RoboCod]

Looks like alonso could be back and with Renault, Liberty Media sponsoring Alonso. Sounds dodgy but anything to see him back at F1 would be great.

 

[Mr Jack]

Looks like alonso could be back and with Renault, Liberty Media sponsoring Alonso. Sounds dodgy but anything to see him back at F1 would be great.

Eh. He had his time. I'd rather see space on the grid for someone new.

Actually, I'm trying to think of a championship winning driver who's had a happy return to F1 after leaving? Kimi is the closest, but he's hardly set the world alight.