Volkswagen cheats emissions tests!

[TW]Fox · 19 Sep 2015 at 17:07

Fair enough

muon · 19 Sep 2015 at 17:16

If they are having to use defeat devices in the US, wouldn't they also need them to comply with some of the more recent EU standards? Or are US (California) standards even more strict?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Emission_standards_for_passenger_cars

edit:

Yep, even lower in California.

https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_ca.php#levii

Alibaba99 · 19 Sep 2015 at 17:28

TheVoice said:
I wonder how VW's emissions compare to those of the domestic manufacturers and their massive engines?

The American emission test is more about NOx which is something a diesel is bad at, hence the reason VW appear to be fudging the test. A large capacity low compression petrol engine produces little NOx, it is everything else it is bad at.

[TW]Fox;28584386 said:
You should never see smoke from a modern diesel unless it's been modified or is defective.

The number of defective modern diesels must have reached a significant number as I frequently see something from the last few years belching soot.

Diddums · 19 Sep 2015 at 17:43

Car manufacturers have been bending emissions rules for years. One look at a regenerating DPF will tell you that.

Nasher · 19 Sep 2015 at 17:55

This is similar to the way they tape up panel gaps, over-inflate tyres and remap the ECUs for MPG tests. Plus test at high altitude to reduce air resistance

Wait until they start clamping down on NO2 here. Tax on diesel cars will rocket, it's about twice as harful as Co2.

Caged · 19 Sep 2015 at 17:58

snowdog said:
Yeah, because relatively these VW's are SO polluting compared to most Yank trucks ?

And as if it makes a noticeable difference for the air quality.

VW took a gamble and got caught, nothing more nothing less.

If you accept that there should be emission regulations then you should absolutely care if manufacturers are cheating to evade them. From your response though I don't believe you feel emissions are an issue.

muon · 19 Sep 2015 at 18:01

Whilst VW are muppets, I would avoid if I can getting the recall work done. It will reduce fuel economy and performance.

Caged · 19 Sep 2015 at 18:07

Presumably if the recall results in substantially different performance then you'd be able to argue for a refund anyway. It's the US so there would be no shortage of lawyers ready to represent a class action.

Nasher · 19 Sep 2015 at 18:09

They will find a way to wiggle out of it, or giving out refunds. They always do :/

Simon · 19 Sep 2015 at 18:31

Not sure if there is an actual a device fitted ?

It's likely built into the ECU to detect when on drive cycle and then turn on EGR. This is the main way OEMs reduce nox emissions.

eatcustard · 19 Sep 2015 at 18:37

Maybe the Fat yanks could go bomb a few VW factories, Im sure they still have a few B17s lying around

nam · 19 Sep 2015 at 19:51

why do the US even bother, they are still one of the highest users of fuel and pollutants globally did they not refuse when Bush was about to sign some treaty to reduce the carbon emissions when the rest of the world agreed. They really are a one rule for us nation

Jonnycoupe · 19 Sep 2015 at 21:25

nam said:
why do the US even bother, they are still one of the highest users of fuel and pollutants globally did they not refuse when Bush was about to sign some treaty to reduce the carbon emissions when the rest of the world agreed. They really are a one rule for us nation

So making that fuel use as clean as possible is the exact reason they should bother.

Jonnycoupe · 19 Sep 2015 at 21:26

Simon said:
Not sure if there is an actual a device fitted ?

It's likely built into the ECU to detect when on drive cycle and then turn on EGR. This is the main way OEMs reduce nox emissions.

Yes it's a software algorithm to detect the test cycle and hence parameters to suit the test and hence yield a lower emission level.

MrMoonX · 19 Sep 2015 at 21:46

Alibaba99 said:
The American emission test is more about NOx which is something a diesel is bad at, hence the reason VW appear to be fudging the test. A large capacity low compression petrol engine produces little NOx, it is everything else it is bad at.

The number of defective modern diesels must have reached a significant number as I frequently see something from the last few years belching soot.

Its not smoke you're seeing its the soot, a slightly grey smoke look coming when the driver guns it, thats the DPF getting cleared out, if you see black smoke on a modern diesel, its boned.

Simon · 19 Sep 2015 at 22:20

Jonnycoupe said:
Yes it's a software algorithm to detect the test cycle and hence parameters to suit the test and hence yield a lower emission level.

When will they realise they are all doing it ?

ianh · 19 Sep 2015 at 22:22

Like Alibabba99, I must also be seeing a lot of "boned" diesels on my motorway commute. I must see on average 20-30 cars a day which belch black smoke when the driver puts their foot down. It's very rare to see one smoking during normal driving now-a-days though which is nice!

Minstadave · 19 Sep 2015 at 22:34

DPF deletes were pretty popular, which might explain some of the soot chuckers.

xs2man · 19 Sep 2015 at 23:17

Doesn't surprise me at all. Every diesel vag I've had since 2008 has been vastly different to what they say as official fuel consumption.

I simply do not trust a modern VAG diesel.

Orionaut · 19 Sep 2015 at 23:31

Simon said:
Not sure if there is an actual a device fitted ?

It's likely built into the ECU to detect when on drive cycle and then turn on EGR. This is the main way OEMs reduce nox emissions.

I remember this sort of issue being discussed ten years ago.

Nothing so complicated.

It was simply having the bonnet up (which was normally the case during official testing procedures) that triggered the "Clean" operating cycle!

Nothing to see here people, please move along now!