Volkswagen cheats emissions tests!

Caporegime
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VW were picked on because they knowingly used a piece of code that they were told was illegal by Bosch. And then tried to cover their tracks.

And you think Bosch only supplied VW and only told VW to keep schtum about it ????

If as much effort went in to other manufacturers, such as, Honda Motors, Fiat-Chrysler, Ford, Hyundai-Kia, Nissan-Renault Group, General Motors, Toyota Motors, BMW, PSA Peugeot/Citroen, as has gone into looking onto the VW group, you would truly see the global scale of this issue.

How many of them have been directly asked if they cheat, by Governments at the highest level ?
 
Soldato
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Problem is that everyone "knows" the figures quoted by manufacturers should be taken with a pinch of salt, that has been common knowledge for many years.
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For MPG yes, but not for emissions. Plus that doesn't make it ok and it wouldn't be a valid excuse.

And you think Bosch only supplied VW and only told VW to keep schtum about it ????

If as much effort went in to other manufacturers, such as, Honda Motors, Fiat-Chrysler, Ford, Hyundai-Kia, Nissan-Renault Group, General Motors, Toyota Motors, BMW, PSA Peugeot/Citroen, as has gone into looking onto the VW group, you would truly see the global scale of this issue.

How many of them have been directly asked if they cheat, by Governments at the highest level ?

They re-tested all the diesel cars on the market afaik. They found a few from other manufacturers but no where near as bad as VWs. Not enough to order a widescale "fix".
 
Caporegime
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For MPG yes, but not for emissions. Plus that doesn't make it ok and it wouldn't be a valid excuse.



They re-tested all the diesel cars on the market afaik. They found a few from other manufacturers but no where near as bad as VWs. Not enough to order a widescale "fix".

I know of at least fifteen vehicles from other manufacturers that pollute in excess of 35 times more than any VW.

That's from our own independent testing.

They are the worst, we have found in excess of 120 other vehicles that exceed their quoted figures, by a minimum of 5 times more pollutants being produced.
 
Soldato
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The next thing VAG will be screwed for is killing perfectly good engines with their fix files. That and lying to customers about how the fix won't affect mpg, reliability and power. I know that no manufacturer is squeaky clean, but VAG take the ******* ****.
 
Soldato
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I know of at least fifteen vehicles from other manufacturers that pollute in excess of 35 times more than any VW.

That's from our own independent testing.

They are the worst, we have found in excess of 120 other vehicles that exceed their quoted figures, by a minimum of 5 times more pollutants being produced.

Is there a public list of the worst offenders? I guess you keep it close to your chests to that the manufacturers don't come knocking on your door in the middle of the night?
 
Soldato
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The next thing VAG will be screwed for is killing perfectly good engines with their fix files. That and lying to customers about how the fix won't affect mpg, reliability and power. I know that no manufacturer is squeaky clean, but VAG take the ******* ****.

Warranties will have expired by then and they'll just mug everyone off.
 
Soldato
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After my two years are up it's rollback time and flood the thing with Wynns every 2000 miles :D
Hopefully the Gov will do a diesel scrappage scheme and I'll get more for it than I would PX or private sale.

Problem is if it's causing accelerated wear of engine components the damage will have been done already :/
 
Caporegime
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Is there a public list of the worst offenders? I guess you keep it close to your chests to that the manufacturers don't come knocking on your door in the middle of the night?

There have been several reports published by various groups getting data from us and other testing labs.

We have been testing cars from all manufacturers, since the scandal first broke in 2015.

As a baseline figure if you think just 1 in 10 of every vehicle produced to Euro 6 regs, will actually pass all tests inside and outside the laboratory, without any mods or cheats being applied, it shows you the level of this.

The main point to remember in all of this is that IT IS NOT ILLEGAL, for any vehicle to produce more emissions on the road, than those produced under lab conditions.




Problem is if it's causing accelerated wear of engine components the damage will have been done already :/

Again people are missing the point, the cheat gave you a far better vehicle than you should have had, not that the "fix" has given you a poorer vehicle.

The "fix" has only brought the vehicles back into line as to where they should have been when leaving the factory in the first place.

You now have a vehicle in exactly the same condition as it should have been when originally built and sold.

In all reality, people should be thankful they had a vehicle for a brief time, that behaved far better than how the original design should have allowed it to perform.



Just think on this for a moment, had things all happened in reverse, and the original cars sold had behaved as they are now (post fix), and then VW had issued a software or hardware "fix" which gave you better MPG and performance, but to the huge detriment of emissions, I can guarantee you there would not be anywhere near the level of complaints, and hardly anyone would be moaning about killing the planet and people, because they would have a better vehicle.
 
Soldato
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As a baseline figure if you think just 1 in 10 of every vehicle produced to Euro 6 regs, will actually pass all tests inside and outside the laboratory, without any mods or cheats being applied, it shows you the level of this.

Surely the 1 in 10 car that passes all the tests should in and out of the lab should be heralded and marketed as class leading. Can you indicate which models these are?

The main point to remember in all of this is that IT IS NOT ILLEGAL, for any vehicle to produce more emissions on the road, than those produced under lab conditions.

But it is illegal to cheat the lab test so brazenly/significantly. For the ECU to recognise lab conditions and recirculate more exhaust emissions is a step too far from over inflating tyres, taping up gaps and removing wing mirrors. VAG crossed a line and got caught. I don't doubt that other manufacturers are bricking it too.

You now have a vehicle in exactly the same condition as it should have been when originally built and sold.

In all reality, people should be thankful they had a vehicle for a brief time, that behaved far better than how the original design should have allowed it to perform.

Just think on this for a moment, had things all happened in reverse, and the original cars sold had behaved as they are now (post fix), and then VW had issued a software or hardware "fix" which gave you better MPG and performance, but to the huge detriment of emissions, I can guarantee you there would not be anywhere near the level of complaints, and hardly anyone would be moaning about killing the planet and people, because they would have a better vehicle.

The difference being that the car was advertised MPG X, Performance Y, Emissions Z. Now since the fix it's MPG A, Performance B, Emissions C. It's a totally different car to the one advertised, hence the missold High Court case.
 
Caporegime
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Surely the 1 in 10 car that passes all the tests should in and out of the lab should be heralded and marketed as class leading. Can you indicate which models these are?

As I have said many reports out there that tell you all you need to know.



But it is illegal to cheat the lab test so brazenly/significantly. For the ECU to recognise lab conditions and recirculate more exhaust emissions is a step too far from over inflating tyres, taping up gaps and removing wing mirrors. VAG crossed a line and got caught. I don't doubt that other manufacturers are bricking it too.

Actually no,
The EU regulations in place at the time had so many loopholes, and so many areas "open to individual interpretation" that actually nothing illegal happened.

The US regulations and tests, are very different and yes it was illegal (under US law) to cheat those lab tests.



The difference being that the car was advertised MPG X, Performance Y, Emissions Z. Now since the fix it's MPG A, Performance B, Emissions C. It's a totally different car to the one advertised, hence the missold High Court case.

But the MPG X, Performance Y, Emissions Z, published are figures the cars would never have met except "under the correct circumstances", and MPG A, Performance B, Emissions C, are what the vehicles still meet now, "under the correct circumstances", so it is a nice get out clause, that the claims can be met, "under the correct circumstances", therefore nothing was miss-sold.

The fact that those "correct circumstances" are ones that 99% of people and driving will never meet, is by the by, and not in any way relevant to any court proceedings

It can be proved that vehicles with the cheat meet all claims, and vehicles without the cheat will still meet all claims, "under the correct circumstances".

They will try a "miss-sold case" as there are no legal grounds for any other attack on VW, however they will fail, as there was enough small print covering VW in cases like the ones trying to be brought against them in the UK.

The US cases were completely different and regulations etc are completely different over there.

If it was so easy under EU and/or UK law to prosecute VW, the government would have brought them up against charges way before now, as soon as the US courts brought cases.

The same as many other European Governments have brought no charges, because no claims are solid enough, under European law for a guaranteed win, it will pretty much be entirely down to what judge sees the case, then you can guarantee VW will appeal any verdict they do not like, thus stretching out the case for many many years.
 
Soldato
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Problem is if it's causing accelerated wear of engine components the damage will have been done already :/

My thoughts exactly, with increased regens your DPF will have filled up much quicker, and your EGR valve will have been thrashed much more than normal. You should have had a rollback as soon as the critical components failed.

I really do feel sorry for anyone who had the fix applied, as they're going to be royally screwed by VAG after TBM ends.
 
Soldato
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My thoughts exactly, with increased regens your DPF will have filled up much quicker, and your EGR valve will have been thrashed much more than normal. You should have had a rollback as soon as the critical components failed.

I really do feel sorry for anyone who had the fix applied, as they're going to be royally screwed by VAG after TBM ends.

I've got a 58 plate Golf 140 2.0 TDI (6 speed DSG). I'm not convinced it has a DPF as I've never noticed a regen. I've read that some models didn't have one. 'Fix' was done August last year and it's down on power and mpg. Nothing mechanically has gone wrong with it yet. It's done 10,000 miles since the fix. Long motorway journeys average 48mpg. I can get more doing steady 30/40 but have never seen it above 60 like I used to pre-fix.
 
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Soldato
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I've got a 58 plate Golf 140 2.0 TDI (6 speed DSG). I'm not convinced it has a DPF as I've never noticed a regen. I've read that some models didn't have one. 'Fix' was done August last year and it's down on power and mpg. Nothing mechanically has gone wrong with it yet. It's done 10,000 miles since the fix. Long motorway journeys average 48mpg. I can get more doing steady 30/40 but have never seen it above 60 like I used to pre-fix.

Have you got an OBD reader + Android phone, someone created a nifty app - VagDPF that you can check the status of your DPF + how full it is, and you can see how often it's going through a regen.

Sounds like yours might just be hanging on, if something goes i really hope it goes for you before those 2 years are up. I've seen horror stories of people having multiple EGR replacements, i mean that's a part that just shouldn't be failing in that short of a duration.
 
Soldato
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Have you got an OBD reader + Android phone, someone created a nifty app - VagDPF that you can check the status of your DPF + how full it is, and you can see how often it's going through a regen.

Sounds like yours might just be hanging on, if something goes i really hope it goes for you before those 2 years are up. I've seen horror stories of people having multiple EGR replacements, i mean that's a part that just shouldn't be failing in that short of a duration.

Yeah I've tried that but it won't connect for whatever reason, I'm pretty sure my reader is fine https://photos.app.goo.gl/R7SLoJdvAnizJBth8. I use the OBD and Torque app to log my journeys and performance.

Just looking at my V5, it's definitely a DPF model. It has a DPF light on the dash so that makes sense.

Engine number is CBD which doesn't seem to be supported on VAG DPF.

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/volkswagen_golf_se_tdi_140_dpf_s-a
 
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Caporegime
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My thoughts exactly, with increased regens your DPF will have filled up much quicker, and your EGR valve will have been thrashed much more than normal. You should have had a rollback as soon as the critical components failed.

I really do feel sorry for anyone who had the fix applied, as they're going to be royally screwed by VAG after TBM ends.


Again false information.

VW's DO NOT have increased regens, they now (post fiix) have regens as they should have had from brand new.

Most cars do not get used correctly for the ECU to go into passive regen mode, so it will trigger an active regen every, 100 to 300 miles or so depending upon manufacturer.
the regen will last approx 5 to 10 mins and if it is happening when you end your journey, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SWITCH OFF YOUR ENGINE, that will definitely cause a build up and increase chances of serious damage.

Many VW owners have said (pre fix) they never saw, heard, or felt their car go into regen, that is one of the side effects of the software cheat.

Now teh fix is being rolled out the cars will start to behave like they should have from the factory, by going into regen mode every 100 to 200 miles or so, sometimes more often if very slow short stop start journeys are made.

this is how a car should behave, but many from many manufacturers do not, because they are all cheating the emissions.
 
Soldato
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