Volvo T6 or T8 Hybrids - Experience

[sandys]

I've been looking to change our tow vehicle for a couple of years now sitting on the fence waiting to see how the electric revolution progresses.

We have pretty modest tow requirements a small van and a sprint car obviously not at the same time could probably do this with 1800kg even with future upgrades so this had us considering an XC40 P8 but even now a few years on from my first look into it (we were buying pre covid and have been WFH since which put us on pause ) the infrastructure hasn't improved massively and when you are towing in the arse end of nowhere having to plan charging paths and guaranteeing fast charging is not ideal.

I see that Volvo have recently updated their hybrid powertrains to a much larger battery, 11kw to 18kw this would make the vehicle ideal for our non towing daily grind and have petrol for the rest, intially we were looking at x5 and gle as the only Hybrid with a decent battery but when I took the missus for a look at them she baulked at the size, the XC60 is a little bit more acceptable, to her at least, from a perspective of not requiring such a large ladder to get in

Any owners of Volvos hybrid on here can to share experience, reliability how good is the powertrain etc.

 

[MrM]

I recently moved to an XC90 T8, so can provide some thoughts on the T8, less the T6.

I moved from a Range Rover Sport and was originally looking for something smaller so test drove a few XC60’s in different guises. With a young family the XC90 suits our needs better. Whilst it’s marginally longer than my previous car, it hides its size on the road well and if you can make use of the huge internal load space I think the price and size premium over an XC60 would be worth it.

As I am sure you know, the powertrains are the same across both cars and although the uprated model has not come to the XC90 in the UK yet, the XC60 will be quicker and in the uprated spec it would be pretty rapid.

I have only had my XC90 for about 6 weeks and I don’t do that many miles, so too early to comment on reliability, but so far so good.

I was worried about performance coming from the RRS (SVR), but the T8/Recharge is plenty quick enough, I have the Polestar performance upgrade but not sure what real life difference that makes versus a regular T8. The noise from the 4 cylinder engine can’t compare, the exhaust is silent and whilst it doesn’t have the outright wave of buttery smooth midrange pull of my RRS it feels much nippier and quicker to respond to initial throttle. In practice my driving is super local at weekends (so I try to drive only on electric which works really well) or it’s a long motorway trip if we go away (I lock the battery charge and run on the petrol engine).

From what I’d read I expected poor economy on petrol from the T8 but I seem to be getting 28-32mpg which is nigh on identical to my RRS on a motorway cruise, so can’t complain.

I am still trying to get my head around the hybrid thing for longer range driving if you don’t lock the battery, since if the charge isn’t locked, the battery depletes quickly and kind of defeats the point. I haven’t looked too closely at the T6 but the T8 seems to harvest little battery from regen braking, so I’m not sure how effective the T6 would be at offering extra efficiency? Plug in charge time for the T8 is pretty quick but then the battery isn’t that large.

I don’t tow, so can’t comment there. All I will say is the RRS felt much more rugged (read heavier, heavier steering, would conquer anything), even when the XC90 is in AWD mode. My wife has a BMW 1 series and I used to think the steering was go kart like after driving the RRS. Now the 1 series feels really heavy to steer after the XC90; all down to the desired feel for the consumer I suppose. Plenty of people tow with Volvo’s, though the towing capacity of the T8 is less than other models and given the premium the T8 costs, if it’s mainly towing you will do then you might find better value away from a hybrid model? Otherwise if the real life battery range works for you, the size of the car works for you, I would seriously consider one.

If you have other questions I’ll do my best to help.

 

[sandys]

Good stuff, sounds like really early days for you though, our intention would be to treat it as an electric car for most of its non towing duties, not for economy purpose or saving money, just for the convenience of just latching it up at home and green reasons like clean air whilst doing round town stuff and child duties, school, sports etc. most of the round trip for the missus is <20 miles so might even get a couple of days out of a charge on the bigger battery.

Our current diesel 4x4 does a solid low 20s mpg in these scenarios as it goes nowhere fast and never gets a run for its DPF, it has not bothered us one bit with so few miles but we thought we switch it up so the vehicle is better suited to day to day, we have considered just going for a straight petrol and saving a ton of cash as there aren't really many benefits to a Hybrid for a private buyer out side of my being a bit greener and still be able to tow unaffected by the EV charging inconvenience of having to unhitch, charge up and re-hitch use case when towing, the concern is the hybrid comes with a load of complexity and possibly high repair costs later in life, that and the pull of an F-Pace SVR is strong, oh wait that doesn't save any dough or the environment

 

[mjt]

Range on these is pretty poor though isn't it? Something like 15 miles

 

[sandys]

Range on these is pretty poor though isn't it? Something like 15 miles

Depends on your driving, fast motor way on the small battery yup it will be low but people do manage 25 miles on the small battery, they have just upped the battery size with the facelift on T6 and T8 from 11kw to 18kw so I'd imagine 30 miles should be achievable, particularly if you use the at home pre-heat etc as we would.

Of course having a back up petrol you don't have to care about making it anywhere if you come up a couple of miles short.

 

[mjt]

Depends on your driving, fast motor way on the small battery yup it will be low but people do manage 25 miles on the small battery, they have just upped the battery size with the facelift on T6 and T8 from 11kw to 18kw so I'd imagine 30 miles should be achievable, particularly if you use the at home pre-heat etc as we would.

Who's getting 25 miles out of the 11kw battery? There's no way that's happening in an SUV.

In real life, it's just not possible. People pull out of in front of you or slow down, causing you to slam on the brakes or accelerate, etc.
I've tried hypermiling in my i3 and it's very, very difficult due to others around you.
Good luck trying to do that in a 2300kg SUV!

I'm not knocking the car - I've just bought a hybrid Q7 - but just make sure you take the manufacturer range figures with a fistful of salt!

 

[sandys]

Its going to depend on your trip and what regen etc. but as mentioned it doesn't matter right, you have a petrol there you are not going to be stranded but yup that is part of the reason I am asking for any experience, but Volvos are probably a bit too old man for this forum .

WLTP range on the T6 is 48.5 miles, in the T8 it is 46.6, I've no idea how this equates to real world. If I got half of that it would do.

 

[MrM]

I’ve done most of my trips in my XC90 on electric. I’d say I seem to get between 15 and 18 miles on a charge.

It needs to be taken in context; a short throw from my house I have to join an NSL uphill road to get anywhere, so from the off im doing 50-60mph for a couple of miles and in recent cold weather it drains battery quite quickly. No issue getting up to speed, the experience is great… but as a previous post mentioned, one needs to be realistic about the range that can be achieved.

The concept of a hybrid is an interesting one. The idea of short trips on electric, longer trips on fuel, electric assisted acceleration all appealed. All in its quite a compelling package to live with, but far removed from being any kind of purist drivers car.

I guess 20+ mile electric range might be achievable if on flat, capped at 30mph or so and driving like on egg shells.

 

[sandys]

Seems decent for the small battery on a big car like that, aligns with most reviews that suggest people are getting ~20 miles out of it like so

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/volvo-xc90-t8-recharge--ph-review/45157

XC60 is smaller though not much lighter with a bigger battery, as mentioned reckon the missus might get two days out of it perhaps more if she doesn't go into the office and to be honest if she goes into the office she can charge for free, so can't see why we wouldn't use that, though lots of EVs and one charge point mean you have to be lucky to get it, not that she would, she won't even put fuel in a car never mind latch up electric, it'd be another one of my man duties

In terms of her driving, she is never out of 20-40mph zone, average speed on trip is ~13mph ( be faster on a pushbike ) so I'm quite positive it'd work well but also concerned I'm too positive on a hybrids abilities

 

[jpaul]

I see that Volvo have recently updated their hybrid powertrains to a much larger battery, 11kw to 18kw

albeit, new, Lexus 450phev also has the larger battery - part of the new eu regulations requiring more autonomy for tax positioning (lie new c class too, but no news on similar bmw battery upsize)

 

[sandys]

Yup we checked out the Lexus on the weekend as we are buying new (if I can find a 455 Polestar Engineered I might get secondhand and take the battery hit because I'm still a big kid ) it is nice, far more modern than the Volvos, who's interior could do with a update rather than just the Google update its got I mean blimey who thought wrapping the Google interface around Volvos old Clunky UI was a good idea, it's a new OS give it a new UI and screen, how much could you have really saved especially when you see how good Polestar did it and they are effectively the same company, it's the one let down for me, anyway, I can only imagine that it was not done as new XCs will be along soon so they saved some dough.

Problem with the Lexus is that it is just not that comfortable in the higher FSPORT trim and the step down to get seats that are comfortable take a notch out of the looks as they are are so bland, that and the 1500kg tow ability that just about covers my packed lunch It would actually do us right now TBH and the draw of a 10yr warranty is strong as I will buy and run till it dies but the XC60 is mostly better specced, 2200kg tow and cheaper even when adding in extra warranty cover for 6yrs as at the moment there are no discounts on NX or at least I wasn't offered them.

the C300e estate is so cheap comparatively, it seems like a steal but the missus took one look and a bit of sick came up

 

[MrM]

Have you test driven a Polestar Engineered XC60?

That was the first Volvo I tested. I was sold on it before I drove it but came away feeling quite cold. The geek in me likes the idea of tweaking the suspension. I fiddled with it pre test drive to make it on the softer side, but my god it was hard. I’ve no doubt it corners better than other Volvo SUV’s but I felt the road surface like I’ve never done before. I could live with this if I really wanted to, but what I couldn’t live with is all the squeaks and rattles the hard ride seemed to produce around the cabin, even on relatively smooth roads.

If you are seriously considering one I would recommend a test drive first. Also regarding towing, I’m not sure but the air suspension models might make it easier for you to hitch as they have a degree of height adjustability which you lose with the PE model.

As an aside, the Polestar alloys are the only ones that will fit around the huge brake calipers (which by the way were absolutely amazing), the spokes protrude outwards a bit if I recall and a couple of cars I looked at had kerb damage to the wheels. I could be wrong but check the tyres on them aren’t an even more odd size than the standard XC60 21/22’s.

Lovely car if it ticks the boxes.

 

[sandys]

No I haven't driven the Polestar yet, nor an XC60 with 22s which I absolutely love the look of because they add a bit of attitude as they also come along with the arch extensions, the suspension side I'm sure i'll be happy with, I have adjustable suspension in some of my cars, typically I find a setting I like then never change it I guess it is probably on run flats too which never help ride, can't imagine it'd be worse than my Abarth but I wouldn't purchase a car without testing one first, lot of dough to spend without doing that. I could take a hit on 22s if they were wrong and change but if the car was wrong that's another matter.

Bound to feel like limo compared to current fleet, creakyness would be annoying in a car of that price point though, we drove a couple of Kias the other week, the Sportage and EV6 and the lack of refinement in suspension was surprising, comfortable but firm thumps, quite noisy in the cabin, not creaky just the suspension doing its job noise, I expected better from a new car but I guess all the Hybrid and battery stuff is adding so much weight you have to go harder with suspension.

 

[MrM]

Agree re the looks. I think the XC60PE is a cracking looking car.

FYI larger Volvo wheel sizes are odd, hard to find runflats; cars not supplied with runflats.

The PE I believe can be spec’d with 21 or 22, but due to the calipers you’re stuck with needing the Polestar wheels to clear the calipers. Or go after market.

 

[Greebo]

If you appreciate ride comfort please dont get the 22" wheels.

 

[gailjon]

My 2021 Sorento PHEV (the only other 7 seat PHEV at the moment) gets a rock steady 28 miles on ev only with its 13.8 kwh battery. Shocking fuel consumption on motorway journeys to Scotland though. Average consumption with 4 up an luggage at 70 mpg is arpund 30-35 mpg. When compared to the '999' consumption on ev only it really makes you think about how much fuel actually costs. My previous Q7 50tdi averaged 34mpg long term so the phev does make a difference as I my long term average is 63 mpg with a lot of ev only journeys.

I didn't go for the XC90 as the battery was too small and the ev range wouldn't allow me to do the daily journeys on EV only.

 

[mjt]

My 2021 Sorento PHEV (the only other 7 seat PHEV at the moment) gets a rock steady 28 miles on ev only with its 13.8 kwh battery. Shocking fuel consumption on motorway journeys to Scotland though. Average consumption with 4 up an luggage at 70 mpg is arpund 30-35 mpg. When compared to the '999' consumption on ev only it really makes you think about how much fuel actually costs. My previous Q7 50tdi averaged 34mpg long term so the phev does make a difference as I my long term average is 63 mpg with a lot of ev only journeys.

I didn't go for the XC90 as the battery was too small and the ev range wouldn't allow me to do the daily journeys on EV only.

That's impressive. Our Q7 TFSI e does 25 miles from its 17.9 kWh battery. Granted, it's cold out, but that extra 500kg over your Sorento clearly makes a difference!

 

[sandys]

FYI larger Volvo wheel sizes are odd, hard to find runflats; cars not supplied with runflats.

Good shout I see they come with 255/40/22 which doesn't give much choice at all but in another model year they were also fitted with 265/35/22 these would clearly impact range looking at how the WLTP drops from 46miles to 42 on PE but more choice available, 255 would probably be more comfortable with the extra sidewall though.

If you appreciate ride comfort please dont get the 22" wheels.

Common sense would suggest you are right but I am happy to try and buy another set if we find it too compromised, I have a garage wall full of wheels/tyres for different reasons, I'd just add to my stash for winter/summer.

My 2021 Sorento PHEV (the only other 7 seat PHEV at the moment) gets a rock steady 28 miles on ev only with its 13.8 kwh battery. Shocking fuel consumption on motorway journeys to Scotland though. Average consumption with 4 up an luggage at 70 mpg is arpund 30-35 mpg. When compared to the '999' consumption on ev only it really makes you think about how much fuel actually costs. My previous Q7 50tdi averaged 34mpg long term so the phev does make a difference as I my long term average is 63 mpg with a lot of ev only journeys.

I didn't go for the XC90 as the battery was too small and the ev range wouldn't allow me to do the daily journeys on EV only.

Nice, Kias Electrics generally seem to be very efficient compared to the likes of VAG or Volvo etc, when we came out of Kia the Sorento was the motor my missus was most impressed by despite its size, we never tried it though as it can't tow more than 1500, we'[d not want to go below 1600, you'd think they would do better really as it was the old caravan and camping favourite, I'm sure many bought them in the past just because it could pull a house, with a good warranty and stacked with kit.

Good to hear that PHEV are working for the local stuff though for people generally makes me feel a bit better about the idea.

 

[jpaul]

Do the Kias like the bmw/mercedes/audi phev's have the electric motor integrated into the ASIN/zf transmission replacing torque convertor,
or does some architectural issue explain ev efficiency - mini and 508 with electric back axle.

I fiddled with it pre test drive to make it on the softer side

picky customer - it's manually adjusted like polestar 2 ?, but, with the polestar premium, you need to know,
air/adaptive suspension needs to permeate the middle phev/ev market, or more, innovations from likes of monroe for electrically adjusted like the ford magneride - some kind of ferrous liquid.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Through the road Hybrids (ie electric rear axle) tends to be more efficient than the primary driveline motors that are integrated into gearbox. But then have a fixed speed rather than flexibility of gears.