Vote on smoking ban in public places

As an aside, is there anywhere where one can find out which MPs voted for what on this Bill?

Am interested in the party-by-party support for this :)
 
Having spent some time over in dublin and in the pubs and clubs over there where smoking is already banned im chuffed it was so nice to come home from a night out and still smell fresh, and not have that stale smoke smell when you wash your hair
 
Rich_L said:
Despite apparent assertions to the contrary, a pub or club is not someone's house and is governed by legislation and licensing laws so I don't see how that is relevant.
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I find it amusing, contrasting, that in the post I quoted you mention priveledge and liberty twice and here you turn to law and legislation. What about the priveledge of being the owner of private propert? The liberty to goven what legal substances are consumed?

It is still private property. Your house is still private property that is governed by laws.

A pub is merely a house that has a license to serve alcohol and play music. It should be their choice if smoking is allowed, your mate Pete would probably say 'if you don't like it leave', as should a pub be able to.

To quote someone else who put's it rather bluntly

I own my business, and my business is a private business, where I sell and serve a legal, regulated substance to adults: Alcohol.

Smoking of cigarette tobacco, another legal and regulated substance is as of right now, legal.

My business is conducted on private property.

Therefore:

I have the right, as a private business owner, to allow adults to partake in a legal activity, if I choose.

YOU, as the potential patron, have the right to NOT visit my establishment should you not wish to be around cigarette smoke.

You, as the potential patron (and here is the important part) do not have a right to enter my private property. I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason, at any time.

And the Government has no right to regulate that.

Should you wish to go to a bar and not be around icky stinky cigarette smoke, boycott my bar and go to one whose owner choses to NOT permit smoking.

And those that make the "but your smoking cigarettes poses a direct threat to my health!"

So does the booze I serve, and so does the drunk I just kicked out who is now getting into a car and driving toward a crosswalk full of eight year old girls carrying kittens.

So, no. In any free country where smoking is legal, you do NOT have the right to regulate smoking in private business. You merely have the right to not go there.

I'd sooner accept a ban on smoking on sidewalks, parks, bus stops, etc, (public property) than having my private property rights messed with.

And as to he workers, they have a right to not work at my bar, should they so choose. Likewise, I am not obligated to hire them.

Keep your pansy ass laws off of my private, legal business and go the **** elsewhere if you dont like it.
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Rich_L said:
I'm actually not that bothered about the lives to be honest. My position is laid out just above, smoking in the presence of others has always been a privilege. If non-smokers wish to revoke that privilege then that is their prerogative - smokers do not have an inalienable right to smoke in the presence of others.

The important bit is *in the presence of others* - I would strongly object to any legislation banning smoking outright.

Despite apparent assertions to the contrary, a pub or club is not someone's house and is governed by legislation and licensing laws so I don't see how that is relevant.
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I'm in agreement with your position as layed out in the first 2 paragraphs. However a pub/club is still private property into which the landlord invites customers to partake. The fact that there's plenty of legislation covering who, what, when, where & how is irrelevant. We are discussing this new law which no one has yet manged to justify. FFS why can't people accept responsibility for their actions, don't like the smell, don't care for the health effects then exercise your brain and vote with your feet.
 
Vanilla said:
A pub is merely a house that has a license to serve alcohol and play music.
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Subject to restrictions, such as the age of who can be served, and when the property must be closed to the public..etc.etc. Another restriction of which is now that smoking is not allowed.

It's pretty clear that when a pub applies for a licence to serve alcohol & play music they accept that they are no longer considered an entirely 'private' property.

And as to he workers, they have a right to not work at my bar, should they so choose. Likewise, I am not obligated to hire them.
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The classic idealist employer attitude - everyone can always get another job can't they...hmmm...
 
Rich_L said:
Subject to restrictions, such as the age of who can be served, and when the property must be closed to the public..etc.etc. Another restriction of which is now that smoking is not allowed.

It's pretty clear that when a pub applies for a licence to serve alcohol & play music they accept that they are no longer considered an entirely 'private' property.

The classic idealist employer attitude - everyone can always get another job can't they...hmmm...
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The fact is that there is no justification behind the law. Passive smoking is STILL unproven and one thing ever study I have seen lacks is some correlation or differantiator between illness caused cigarette smoke and other pollutants.

I'm currently searching for a recent BMI report that fully claims the passive smoking has been overrated the last ten years. I just need to wait for the search function on a different site to come back online!

My personal feelings behind getting a job at a bar is that you know there's going to be smoke. If that bothers you then look elsewhere. Just as i'd look elsewhere if a job was too far or to hard to get to. This all links back to my post a few pages ago - we all need to take responsibility for ourselves.
 
Vanilla said:
To quote someone else who put's it rather bluntly
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And the government has the right to make things legal or illegal (no matter what class of property you're on) making that a bit of a moot point :p

Sorry, just felt like pointing that out

If you don't like it start a petition, run for government, phone your MP. It's how democracy works unfortunately. Similarly if you don't agree with the hypocrisy regarding the stance on other legal drugs, or muslims with placards, or the war, or whatever, do the same thing. (kind of rendering Speakers Corner redundant in one fell swoop).
 
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I can't understand why everyone is ranting at the Government, Tony's cronies and all that. It was a free vote for Labour, no MP had to toe the party line. There was no overriding policy being forced, it was left up to the MP's personal choice and the vast majority chose a total ban.

Add to that the poll that is running on the BBC that shows a staggering 90% of people want a ban of some form, and 80% want a complete ban. Thats 9 out of 10 of your mates wanting a ban. I don't know about you, but I would say thats a fair and square defeat.

It will always be a case of one side sacrificing for the other, whether its the smokers or non-smokers. But here we have a massive, massive majority against smoking...how can you not say that this is a clearly democratic decision, favoured by the majority?

Democracy is great, as long as everyone agrees with you. When they don't it sucks, but thats all part of the package, not everyone gets what they want.
 
I'm glad they're making all public places smoke free, but i think pubs always have been smokey and without that, its not really a pub. I don't smoke, and don't mind too much about people smoking around me. Clubs on the other hand, I think non smoking will be a big improvement. When you're gasping for breath i'd prefer a smoke-free environment to catch my breath back.

On a plus side, your clothes + hair don't come back smelling of smoke :)
 
Hope you are all still cheering when the breweries raise the price of beer to offset the income loss this law will entail they suffer.
 
They ought to ban food in pubs.

If I go for a pint and a fag I don't want to smell (and smell of) greasy food.

If you want food, either go to a restaurant or have a bag of scratchings.
 
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