Weekend Football Thread *spoilers*

I think the thread is much better than usual and think you should continue your good work every thursday. ;)

With the actual football I am hoping Liverpool will delay their kickoff of the season and treat sunday as a friendly so we can win.

Its a bit worrying for the future of Arsenal with our height issues across the team. This was even more worrying when our second string team came out for the CL game. It was like 9 dwarves and a CB.

I dont think its any fluke that we did so well when we had two big guys in the middle with Veira and Petit. I hope this gets addressed in the January/Summer. I doubt it will though.


Thank you! :)

I agree with the height issues that we have. Even the first team are a bunch of shorties compared to most teams. I think that's why when Bendtner plays I always think we have a little more penetration and a much better chance at set pieces. We should have bought Brede Hangelaand when everyone was talking that up and now that we are in need of a few players in the next couple of windows I think Wenger needs to look at players who are strong in the air, and good at set piece defence and attack.

As for the match on Sunday, my heart wants to say a win but my head thinks it might end up being a 1-1 draw. If we do win by several goals then I think Rafa will start to feel even more pressure to deliver some results. We've been on a little bit of a bad run ourselves with 4 losses in 6 games but those stats don't really tell the whole story.

In a few of those games we have had the chance to win but have lacked the killer blow and the "let's finish them off" mentality. We have a lot of injuries at the moment and we are going to find Sunday afternoon a toughy, but a very important game in our Premiership campaign.

I personally don't think we can win now, even though it's mathematically possible we've just lost too many games. I want to see us come third this year and maybe win the FA cup or at least get to the Semi-Finals of the Champions League. I'll be happy with that for this season and then itll be on to the summer where Wenger can start plugging a few of the gaps and getting some of the extra cover that we desperately need when the injuries set in. :)
 
Chelsea have lost 3, Man Utd have lost 3 and Arsenal have lost 4, not exactly a disaster and hardly out of the race. Considering the absolutely awful injuries, I think Arsenal will improve and make a good challenge this season. I think Chelsea losing last weekend was vital, will have given the players enough hope to play at 110% for the rest of the season, you could see they were all devastated after the Chelsea game.

Also, with Essien out for almost 2 months and Drogba out for nearly one, I can see Chelsea putting in a few average performances and maybe dropping more points

Whatever is said, it's only December and to me any of the top 3 could walk away with the title
 
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Yeah I and I think we have a game in hand too. I just don't think our team is ready yet, we don't seem to have the same consistency as the United's and the Chelsea's.

Chelsea and Man Utd have only played 1 more game than us yet Utd are 6 points ahead and Chelsea are 8. I think that leaves us needing them to slip up even if we won the remainder of our games. With both those teams every single time they play a team like Fulham, West Ham, Everton, you would always favour them. And when I watch them play such teams I always think they look really confident and settled. When I watch Arsenal even though it is a bit different being a fan of them, I'm never truly settled in games that involve the top 8 or 9 of the Premier League, The Tottenham, Sunderland and Fulham's.

I think we are already needing other teams to slip up and that our destiny may be out of our hands. It just goes to show the quality of the league when you could only lose 4 games in a season, maintain a 90% record at the end of it and still lose.


EDIT: table messed up, so I removed it.
 
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Meh, I think consistency has been one of Arsenal's strong points this season (before losing RvP, but losing Drogba/Rooney would do the same to the others) and they were playing at almost the same level every single game (besides Fulham where things didn't quite click and the last 30 minutes at West Ham). I think Chelsea have been poor a couple of times this season and got away with it, same with Man Utd. I suppose though that's maybe important, when Chelsk and Man Utd play crap, they manage to win/draw, when Arsenal don't play to their usual levels they just lose (see Chelsea game).

I still don't think a 5 point gap when there are nearly 70 still to play for is anywhere near conclusive and I'm not exactly saying I expect Arsenal to win the league, just that it's more than possible if they get a few good results in the returning fixtures against Chelsk/Man Utd that they could be up there and maybe cause an upset. You have to retain some faith :)
 
Meh, I think consistency has been one of Arsenal's strong points this season (before losing RvP, but losing Drogba/Rooney would do the same to the others) and they were playing at almost the same level every single game (besides Fulham where things didn't quite click and the last 30 minutes at West Ham). I think Chelsea have been poor a couple of times this season and got away with it, same with Man Utd. I suppose though that's maybe important, when Chelsk and Man Utd play crap, they manage to win/draw, when Arsenal don't play to their usual levels they just lose (see Chelsea game).

I still don't think a 5 point gap when there are nearly 70 still to play for is anywhere near conclusive and I'm not exactly saying I expect Arsenal to win the league, just that it's more than possible if they get a few good results in the returning fixtures against Chelsk/Man Utd that they could be up there and maybe cause an upset. You have to retain some faith :)


I can agree with pretty much everything there and I did mention that it was still possible, I just didn't think it would happen this season. Can't really disagree with anything else. I think you picked the most important point to make when you said that Chelsea and Man United can play like crap and still win the game, whereas we can't really do that at the moment.

I think that next year we will run them all the way and come very close, if not win it, because on our day and when everyone is playing well we are more than capable of sweeping aside the best teams in the world. Just need Wenger to get some good cover players in now. :)
 
Fair enough, I'm not sure that this team has exactly what it takes, but I do think that if they're not ready this season then there should be no excuses. From what I saw early on in the season (seems a lot of people have forgotten that Arsenal were amazing before RvP died) I'm convinced that with a full first XI that this team could do special things, however, the injuries are really, really getting to me. I can't work out the reason why it keeps happening on such drastic scales, all I want to see is a full strength team for half a season or so, to see what they can do. It's not much to ask for :/
 
Fair enough, I'm not sure that this team has exactly what it takes, but I do think that if they're not ready this season then there should be no excuses. From what I saw early on in the season (seems a lot of people have forgotten that Arsenal were amazing before RvP died) I'm convinced that with a full first XI that this team could do special things, however, the injuries are really, really getting to me. I can't work out the reason why it keeps happening on such drastic scales, all I want to see is a full strength team for half a season or so, to see what they can do. It's not much to ask for :/

Same. We were destroying teams by 3 and 4 goal margins during the games when we had a full strength team and RVP made himself look like one of the best forwards in the world, he was absolutely immense. Then he gets crocked, we pick up a few more and it starts to go a bit downhill. I've completely given up hope of Rosicknote ever playing a full season again. And the frustrating thing is that we know he can play well and offer a lot of things to the team but when he's getting sidelined for breaking a nail, or for his hair falling out of place there's just no point holding your hopes up.

We need a replacement for him if I'm honest, and then when Rosicky IS fit him and his replacement can be rotated. I'd plump for Babel, I think he could be a great player if Benitez actually knew how to work with youngsters. But yes, when we've got a full strength first team we can do great things.
 
Theres no doubt Babel can be become a very good player, like its said before Rafa just doesnt know how to work with youngsters.

Babel has a great foot on him, he needs to be told to find the spaces in behind the striker, in and around the 18 yard box and just blast it at the corners.

As for Arsenal, i dont know what to say about AW anymore. He needs some strength in the middle of the park. I cant believe he cant see it, Song has potential but is nowhere near the standard to compliment Cesc. If you allow Cesc to roam in behind then you need someone who knows how to fill in the gaps and cover the opposition attacks. Song is'nt at that level yet. Why they sold Diarra is beyond me, i suppose he's just one of them that just slips through the net. He would compliment Cesc beutifully in the middle of the park, he has speed, aggression, determination, a game brain and he can tackle. I think they also need an out and out left winger, like the days when overmars was at the club. AW should look at Cazorla, i think he has great potential, Albin aswell.
 
Babel is not a good player, but he has all the ingredients to be a good player and under a manager with more ability with younger players he may be good

Also, in regard to the above post, as an Arsenal fan I think Song is one of the most important players at the club at the moment and I'm dreading the time when he leaves for the ACoN. He has been in brilliant form this year and I don't know which games people who complain about him have been watching this year. He's always in the right place, makes so many crucial tackles week after week after week and is so strong, shrugs soo many players off the ball. There's one thing I'm critical of him about and that's his speed. Other than that though, I think he's a brilliant player and I implore anybody to name a 21 year old DM playing to his standard every week at this kind of level.

As is common with many football fans (and an area where Song suffers) is that people often comment on him without giving him enough viewing, and because he's Song and not Mascherano/Essien he gets lots of criticism for some odd reason, for me he's been far better than Masch this season and up there with Essien. On current form you'd have to spend £20m to find a better player than Song (look at Melo, nearly £20m and he's been garbage at Juve, phew) who is technically good enough to suit this team
 
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Agreed that Wenger shouldn't have sold Diarra but everybody makes mistakes and I think it's rare that Wenger makes a mistake in the transfer market, I love the bloke and I hope he stays with us until he retires from football. I can't believe a few months back there was all the hoo-ha about some of the fans being impatient with him and wanting him out, how fickle they must be because he has brought us a lot of success in the Premier League years and I would say he is without a doubt in the top 5 managers in the world. I obviously think he's number 1 but I'm biased. :D

As for Babel, I think Wenger should have paid that little bit more to get his signature and we could've been looking at a modern Thierry Henry here, although from a lot of the youtube clips I've seen of him playing for Ajax he looks a lot like RVP in some ways and there's no doubting he has natural talent, he just needs to be properly nurtured like only Wenger can. He's very skillful, can be quite strong on the ball and he's very, very quick. He'd be an ideal purchase for Wenger to instill some confidence in and I'd love to see him at Arsenal but I just think that Liverpool will ask for too much money.

A uni friend also told me that he heard Tottenham offered a straight swap of Pavlyuchenko for Babel but I don't know if there's any truth in that or if it's just a rumour.
 
I agree. Some of the runs he makes are absolutely dreadful, but I think that's down to him doing it sub-conciously. Wenger would be able to sort that out in no time I reckon. I think he'd be a very good buy, but for the right price, no more than 7-8 million but I doubt that Wenger will want to pay that much for him. We have other options.
 
Babel's a deluded lazy piece of ****. I hope he doesn't play for us again. I think some of you are deluded if you think he can become a great player too, he's more interested in his rapping and twitter than trying to make it as a player.

Regarding the comments about Benitez not being able to work with youngsters; his record at bringing through players when he was Real's youth team manager was pretty incredible.
 
Apart from Ayala, Insua and Pacheco I'm yet to see any of those players, and I've only seen Pacheco once. Certainly they are no Wilshere, Vela, Merida or Ramsey. And if you think Rafa is a good man manager then I'd say you are mistaken.

What kind of manager constantly rotates his squad to the point where none of them think they are any good at anything and are constantly fearing for their position, or they are playing knowing that next weekend they probably won't be starting.

He was good with Valencia and it's hard to ever argue against Liverpool or Rafa fans because they will eventually bring up the European cup success of 2005. I think Rafa has lost his way a bit and either needs a fresh challenge or needs to go away and take a break for a while before reconsidering his philosophies.

How many times have Liverpool fans heard that a particular game is "The start of the season" this year? It's a few I reckon. Long quote relating to Babel coming up by the way.

Holland coach Marco Van Basten recently criticised Rafael Benitez’s handling of Ryan Babel, noting that the player had taken a step backward since his arrival at Anfield. A harsh assessment? Not if you look at the facts; and having examined the facts, Benitez’s truly appalling treatment of the player is depressingly clear.

Van Basten argued: “If you look at Ryan Babel, it is a mortal sin he now sits on the bench at Liverpool. He was playing well in Holland and for the Under-21s but now he has taken a step backwards.”

Babel cost £11.5m and inarguably has huge potential - the question is has he been given the chance to fulfil that potential?

The answer is resoundingly and unequivocally NO.

As we've all seen, Rafa loves his facts, so let’s consider some facts about Ryan Babel:

2007-08: Babel’s first season

50 appearances

Starts - 29
Subbed – 21 times
On the bench - 24 times
Unused sub – 4 games

Totals

Subbed or on the bench in 82% of games
Subbed in 72% of games started
Scored 11 goals. On 10 occasions, dropped to the bench for the next game.

2008-09

38 appearances

Starts – 9
Subbed – 4 times
On the bench – 25 times
Unused sub – 6 times

Subbed or benched in 76% of games
Subbed in 44% of games started

GRAND TOTALS

88 appearances

38 Starts
Subbed – 25 times
On the bench – 49 times
Unused sub – 10 times

Subbed or on the bench in 84% of games
Subbed in 66% of starts

Taking into account unused sub status

In the squad 93 times
Subbed or on the bench in 90% games

With these figures in mind, consider the following questions:

1. Has Babel been given any kind of chance to establish himself at Liverpool?

2. Has he been allowed to flourish in any way?

3. Has he been allowed a consistent run of games *ever*?

4. Given the fact that in his first season, he was dropped to the bench TEN TIMES after scoring goals, has he been treated fairly in this respect?

5. Is there any justification for such treatment of the player?

The most important question for me is this: Do we want players to be treated this way at Liverpool FC?

The answer has to be no, yet some pigheaded fans just refuse to accept the truth that Rafa’s treatment of certain players over the years has been simply inexcusable.

Fans often seem to criticise Babel for his alleged lack of drive during his sporadic appearances, but how would you react when your manager has damaged your career, never given you a fair chance and made it abundantly clear that he has no faith in you?

Robbie Keane is another example of a player Benitez has treated in a similarly inexcusable manner: Keane was subbed or on the bench in 28 of his 33 appearances, which equates to 85% of games.

I've heard countless fans come up with the same ridiculous arguments: 'Keane missed a few sitters so he deserved to be on the bench'; or 'Keane did nothing when he was on the pitch'.

What a load of cretinous drivel.

For some reason, the 'Rafa can do no wrong' brigade are unwilling to accept that it is practically impossible for a player to get into any kind of rhythm/build understanding with team-mates/build confidence etc when subjected to the kind of treatment meted out to Keane, Babel, and before them, Peter Crouch.

Another pertinent point to consider: With Keane and Babel, Benitez has totally wasted over £30m of the club’s money.

£30m!

And that's not including salaries.

I have absolutely no doubt that if allowed to actually play consistently, both Keane and Babel could have been very effective players for the club. Instead, Benitez has subjected them both to career damaging periods of endless inactivity, for which there is no excuse.

This kind of treatment is one of the principal reasons I am not a fan of Benitez and his way of doing things. Treating players with such contempt (which is what it basically amounts to), does not fit with the philosophy of the club and - IMO - is not behaviour befitting a manager of Liverpool FC.

Fans might not care about the likes of Keane and Babel, but just watch them change their tune when one of their favourites starts suffering from the Benitez effect.

If Ryan Babel wants to save his career and actually progress as a player, he has only one option: leave Liverpool and go to a club where he will treated fairly and given a consistent chance to prove himself.

For any player, leaving Liverpool can only be a step down, but Benitez has made it unambiguously clear that he is NEVER going to give Babel a proper chance.

To stay at the club under the Benitez regime would be career suicide.

I'd probably agree with all of that to be honest. Babel was a boy wonder when he played for Ajax.
 

Ryan Babel has been given more chances than he has came close to deserving.

In his first season he showed glimpses of promise, he'd be brought on as a sub and he'd look a world beater. He'd then be given the oppotunity to start a game and he'd look lost; standing out on the wing waiting for something to happen or somebody to give him a kick up the backside. He was the most Jekyll and Hide player I've ever seen, the one that would start a game and look useless and the one that came off the bench and looked excellent.

He then chose to go play in the Olympics against the clubs wishes because he still hadn't recovered from his ankle injury and as a result he lost his place in the side to Riera who had a great start to the season. Just like Benayoun he was out of the side but unlike Benayoun he chose to sulk in the press and be a lazy **** on the pitch. Benayoun got his head down, worked hard and took his chances and has earned his place in the side.

Babel was signed at a similar age to the likes of Agger, Reina, Lucas and even Torres, so unless Rafa's racist then the only reason why Babel has been treated different to those is because his attitude and application is ****.
 
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