Weekend Footy 29th-1st November/December *Spoilers*

BaZ87 said:
Both. As i said earlier, any doubt in Webb's mind may have been swayed by Ronaldo's reaction to the first booking. Dermot Gallagher (ex ref) was on SSN this morning and said Webb had no choice but to give him the 2nd yellow.
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He was wrong then, and I am surprised he isn't more familiar with the rules of the game.

Regarding this rule on what is and what isn't a booking when it comes to handballs; unless the officials are mind readers how can they tell (at the time of the incident) whether Ronaldo was trying to gain an advantage or not? All the ref's seen is Ronaldo intentionally handle the ball and would automatically think that he's trying to gain an advantage.
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They can use their eyes and common sense. He handed the ball down nowhere near in the direction of the goal. He did it very deliberately and blatantly so if he had been trying to do something underhand or sneaky to obtain any sort of advantage, there is no way he would have thought he would get away with it.

It's certainly a strange one though. Ruud Guillet made a good point when he asked what would have happened had Ronaldo actually caught the ball.
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I think we can all agree it is strange, for sure. From what I saw on Sky, Ruud was on Ronaldo's side.
 
Jono8 said:
I still think Micah Richards high foot warranted a harsher punishment than both the ronaldo incidents combined...

Have yous seen the stud marks on Vidic's chest? terrible.
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I love how Vidic got up before Micah Richards even though he seemed to come off worse in the tackle than Richards, shows how solid he is. Ronaldo's booking was harsh but I still don't understand why he didn't head the ball, it wasn't so low that he couldn't have ducked his head, even just to nod it down into the ground.

Howard Webb had a pretty poor game, obviously felt that because it was a derby game he had to be very strict, but it led to him booking too many players. Considering it wasn't a very angry game I fail to see why Webb booked 7 players.
 
dirtydog said:
He was wrong then, and I am surprised he isn't more familiar with the rules of the game..
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I'd imagine he's far more familiar with the rules than you are and it would seem that in the officials opinion's, what Ronaldo did falls under 'unsporting behaviour'.

dirtydog said:
They can use their eyes and common sense. He handed the ball down nowhere near in the direction of the goal. He did it very deliberately and blatantly so if he had been trying to do something underhand or sneaky to obtain any sort of advantage, there is no way he would have thought he would get away with it.
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Unfortunately refs are being discouraged to use common sense and stick to strict guidelines to try and make their decisions consistent. The angle Webb was looking in from wouldn't have helped either and also when talking about another incident the other week Dermot Gallagher mentioned how officials won't follow the ball straight away after an incident so he may not have seen where it went.

You also have to remember that Ronaldo initially complained about a push in the back (not that he heard a whistle), which there wasn't so maybe he was being slightly underhand or sneaky.
 
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Graham Poll has also written in a paper that Ronaldo shouldnt have been sent off

no-one is right, no one is wrong - this grey area that a lot of decisions seem to fall into

BaZ87 said:
You also have to remember that Ronaldo initially complained about a push in the back (not that he heard a whistle), which there wasn't so maybe he was being slightly underhand or sneaky.
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In the same paper there is a picture of Ronaldo on the pitch (so cant be that long after the incident) mimicking to Webb that he heard a whistle
 
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BaZ87 said:
I'd imagine he's far more familiar with the rules than you are and it would seem that in the officials opinion's, what Ronaldo did falls under 'unsporting behaviour'.
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He is/was a top ref so one would hope he is an expert on the rules, but if he said that then I have to wonder because the rules are quite clear to me.

You also have to remember that Ronaldo initially complained about a push in the back (not that he heard a whistle), which there wasn't so maybe he was being slightly underhand or sneaky.
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Yeah I suspect only Ronaldo knows quite what happened there - it is a freak incident. It is a shame the sending off overshadows what was a very good United performance. I would rather people were talking about that instead of the Ronaldo incident.
 
FrankJH said:
Graham Poll has also written in a paper that Ronaldo shouldnt have been sent off

no-one is right, no one is wrong - this grey area that a lot of decisions seem to fall into
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You're right it's a matter of opinion. However Graham Poll's opinion counts for very little, he's up there with Steve Bennett when it comes to the worst EPL official ever ;)
 
BaZ87 said:
You're right it's a matter of opinion. However Graham Poll's opinion counts for very little, he's up there with Steve Bennett when it comes to the worst EPL official ever ;)
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Gallagher wasnt any better

And Webb was a lot worse in one match (than Poll ever was)
 
BaZ87 said:
You're right it's a matter of opinion. However Graham Poll's opinion counts for very little, he's up there with Steve Bennett when it comes to the worst EPL official ever ;)
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good to see you can avoid bias as well as ever ;)


expert agrees with you 'well they obviously know their stuff a lot better than you or I'

expert disagrees 'well their opinion counts for very little really doesn't it. besides they were one of the worst officials ever'

:p
 
missed the original smiley -apologies

edit - anyway, your nerves must be kicking in over tonight's match

whats Liverpool's record for holding onto the top spot (on their own, or with higher GD) over the last 18 years.... can you make it to Xmas, middle of Jan maybe? :)
 
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FrankJH said:
edit - anyway, your nerves must be kicking in over tonight's match

whats Liverpool's record for holding onto the top spot (on their own, or with higher GD) over the last 18 years.... can you make it to Xmas, middle of Jan maybe? :)
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Nothing to be nervous about really. I fully expect us to win.

As for our record at holding on to top spot, it's pretty easy really. We have won the league in that time so it can't be that good :)

The only time i recent years where we had any sort of lead to hold onto was the year Houllier had his heart problem and we had a shocking spell over Christmas but this side is far better prepared both technically and mentally.
 
FrankJH said:
In the same paper there is a picture of Ronaldo on the pitch (so cant be that long after the incident) mimicking to Webb that he heard a whistle
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Yes he did do this, and it was evident on the tele at the time. However, it wasnt until after Webb called him over and Rio came running over referring to the "push" which Webb shook his head at that he started referring to this whistle.

At the end of the day there was no correct decision that could be made because the rules on the matter are so hard to interpret. Especially considering different referees are providing different comments. Dermot Gallagher I believe is the referee assessor now and he said it was a booking so in that case I would be inclined to agree with the decision made by Howard Webb, but wouldnt have been shouting how he should have been sent off had the referee not booked him.
 
dirtydog said:
Because handball, even deliberate handball, does not warrant an automatic booking in the laws of the game.
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But 99 times out of 100 if you handball deliberately you get booked. Perhaps the ref saw it as unsporting behaviour?

Considering people want refs to be consistant it's a bit much to say he shouldn't have been booked when almost everyone else does for a deliberate handball. You can't say he didn't handle the ball on purpose.

In any case why didn't he just head it? Ronaldo brings these things on himself a lot of the time with his attitude (clapping the ref, sitting on the ground sulking, pointing to himself saying he's no1). Fergie needs to sort him out.
 
BaZ87 said:
Nothing to be nervous about really. I fully expect us to win.

As for our record at holding on to top spot, it's pretty easy really. We have won the league in that time so it can't be that good :)

The only time i recent years where we had any sort of lead to hold onto was the year Houllier had his heart problem and we had a shocking spell over Christmas but this side is far better prepared both technically and mentally.
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I guess you meant "havent" won the league - :), but even so a few months here or there consistently gives you a little experience, even though it is usually around this time of year you start to really falter (well over the last few years anyway)
 
For Liverpool to start losing their grip on the league this year other teams have to stop getting stupid results.
I don't think Liverpool are that much better than previous years it's just at the moment Chelsea, Arsenal and Man.U. keep dropping points where they normally wouldn't and the longer that goes on the easier it'll be for Liverpool to stay at the top.
I doubt they'll drop points tonight too, WHU are pap and haven't won at Anfield since '63.
 
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