Wenger and co getting abused by arsenal fans

[jonneymendoza]

Surely it's obvious that I wasn't referring to Arsenal fans wanting Wenger gone as disgusting? No, it was the manner in which they're going about it. Hanging about to abuse someone in such a fashion at a train station doesn't sit right with me.



At least DM is consistent, you just change your tune based on whether you're winning or losing at any given time.

not changed my tune for ages. Pick a post in the last 6months saying i want hom gone?

always said wait til end of season.

go on i give u a cookie if you can find one

 

[Robbo]

Nah, I'm good. I think dannyjo22 found some good ones the last time you said this though.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Nah, I'm good. I think dannyjo22 found some good ones the last time you said this though.

Cleary majority of fans not happy with wenger though

 

[bignev72]

But we are not progressing at all though and have not been for the past 10 years?

o and i would not say only a small portion of fans want him gone. Most want him gone actually

If you look at the league positions over the last few years it's easy to say we're not progressing at all. In reality that's probably not fair. For the last ten years we've been working under financial constraints to pay off our new stadium. In that time we've consistently sold off our best players to keep the finances stable and not had the money to buy adequate replacements. There are very few managers who would or could work with those restrictions and still remain as consistent as us.

I do feel that during that time we could have done better if we had fixed the obvious weaknesses that existed in our team. Find me a football fan who doesn't believe that about their team though.

We're in to a different situation now where we no longer have to sell our best players and can in fact buy a big player every year. Last year was our first season of this new situation. We signed a world class player in Ozil and we won the FA Cup. This year we signed Sanchez, already one of the best players in the league. I agree we're not doing well at the moment but I bet we still finish top four. The other three teams will be City, Chelsea and Utd. All teams who can spend £150m a year on players. How can you expect us to compete with that?

I think Arsenal fans fall in to three main categories.

People like you and DM who want Wenger out now. These are a small minority but their opinions are the loudest and the most reported on as they make good headlines.

People who remember what Wenger has done for the club and believe he deserves the job for as long as he wants it. These fans are also a small minority but they do exist.

I think most fans feel like me. They recognise that Wenger has had a hard job for the last few season and that the football landscape has changed but Wenger hasn't. However they also realise that Wenger is one of the few who can keeps us in our relatively decent position of "best of the rest" with the occasional cup thrown in. We know that he is coming to the end of his time but we only want him replaced if there is someone truly special available.

 

[jonneymendoza]

If you look at the league positions over the last few years it's easy to say we're not progressing at all. In reality that's probably not fair. For the last ten years we've been working under financial constraints to pay off our new stadium. In that time we've consistently sold off our best players to keep the finances stable and not had the money to buy adequate replacements. There are very few managers who would or could work with those restrictions and still remain as consistent as us.

I do feel that during that time we could have done better if we had fixed the obvious weaknesses that existed in our team. Find me a football fan who doesn't believe that about their team though.

We're in to a different situation now where we no longer have to sell our best players and can in fact buy a big player every year. Last year was our first season of this new situation. We signed a world class player in Ozil and we won the FA Cup. This year we signed Sanchez, already one of the best players in the league. I agree we're not doing well at the moment but I bet we still finish top four. The other three teams will be City, Chelsea and Utd. All teams who can spend £150m a year on players. How can you expect us to compete with that?

I think Arsenal fans fall in to three main categories.

People like you and DM who want Wenger out now. These are a small minority but their opinions are the loudest and the most reported on as they make good headlines.

People who remember what Wenger has done for the club and believe he deserves the job for as long as he wants it. These fans are also a small minority but they do exist.

I think most fans feel like me. They recognise that Wenger has had a hard job for the last few season and that the football landscape has changed but Wenger hasn't. However they also realise that Wenger is one of the few who can keeps us in our relatively decent position of "best of the rest" with the occasional cup thrown in. We know that he is coming to the end of his time but we only want him replaced if there is someone truly special available.

Well i have been to a lot of arsenal games and i would say 70% of the fans who attend want wenger gone as whenever we lose the majority of us boo and shout at wenger wanting to leave.

What is our excuse for this season now we have money to spend?

You seriously cant back him if he fail spectacularly by end of the season hench me saying "wait till end of season"

All this tal;k about replacing him with a household name is a bit primature.

Who was pep guadiola or Jose Morinho when they took charge and won titles and cl's in there first few seasons as a manager?

What about wenger himself? he wasnt a household name in europe yet came to arsenal and swept aside everyone.

My point is you dont need a household name . There is a fergie and a wenger(the old wenger) out there waiting to have an opportuniy to manage a club like arsenal.

id actually rather employ an unknown manager to take control when wenger goes to be honest

 

[FTM]

a bunch of entitled berks

millions of fans support their team every week in this country without ever seeing a sniff of the success Arsenal have had

they should be ashamed of themselves

 

[jonneymendoza]

a bunch of entitled berks

millions of fans support their team every week in this country without ever seeing a sniff of the success Arsenal have had

they should be ashamed of themselves

Do those same fans spend £80 to see there team play?

every club has different expectations. daft to compare arsenal to Stoke whos main objective is to stay in the league and maybe win a cup or two.

They certainly not expected to win the league..

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

We should get Klopp in.

Oh wait.

 

[jonneymendoza]

We should get Klopp in.

Oh wait.

DM did an analysis on klopp in saying how Klopp has far more injuries then Arsenal and when u look at what Klopp has done in the past 5 years, he dwarfs over wenger who has had a much higher budget then Klopp in both transfers and wages paid to players

 

[bignev72]

My point is you dont need a household name . There is a fergie and a wenger(the old wenger) out there waiting to have an opportuniy to manage a club like arsenal.

id actually rather employ an unknown manager to take control when wenger goes to be honest

Yeah you could say **** it and appoint a promising unknown and just see what happens.

Or you could plan the process and appoint a proven manager so that they're more likely to build on our strong foundations?

I know which I would choose

 

[bignev72]

a bunch of entitled berks

millions of fans support their team every week in this country without ever seeing a sniff of the success Arsenal have had

they should be ashamed of themselves

Pretty much this.

 

[grimm]

Arsenal won a trophy last year didn't they? Perhaps they should be a little more grateful

 

[thecremeegg]

Pretty much this.

Right so because Arsenal have won one trophy in 10 years then we should be grateful of scraping a top 4 finish every year? The team is pants, they've not improved in 10 years and the manager has no clue/doesn't want to provoke change.

Wenger needs to go, we need someone else in to mix it up a bit and get us back at the top of the league like Wenger used to know how to do.

 

[Newbie007]

Right so because Arsenal have won one trophy in 10 years then we should be grateful of scraping a top 4 finish every year? The team is pants, they've not improved in 10 years and the manager has no clue/doesn't want to provoke change.

Wenger needs to go, we need someone else in to mix it up a bit and get us back at the top of the league like Wenger used to know how to do.

When Wenger was winning the league every now and then he only had to fight against Man U, now to even think about finishing top 3 he has to fight against 3 of the biggest spending clubs in world football in Chelsea, Man City and man u.

Its all well and good moaning about a 4th place finish every year but football has moved on since you were regular title challengers. There are more clubs with money and other clubs have caught up to the training methods that Wenger 'revolutionised english football with'.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Caseh]

This is the first time I've ever started to think this, but I think this is the season Wenger should go. He seemingly struggles to get defensive players in that Arsenal need. He keeps trying to play fancy football, and leaving holes in the defence all the time; Which works fine when you have a powerhouse like Vieira or even Gilberto to help out! Or Pires, Henry and Bergkamp to cause problems at the other end!

I do however thing the abuse he has been getting and what he recieved at the weekend is an absolute disgrace. He has done so much for the club it's unreal, and that should always be respected.

Edit: I also worry about the training regime at Arsenal, as no injury seems to be minor, and all seem to go on for a long time.

 

[fez]

Thats utter rubbish saying that Arsenal fans should be happy with anything because other teams fans are happy to scrape a win every now and again and are ecstatic when they stay in the PL. Thats the sort or attitude that would get you slowly but surely relegated through the leagues. Every team should be trying to do as well as they possibly can with the resources they have available to them. Arsenal have plenty of money, a manager that has been there for 10 years and a wealth of experience in the league and CL. They should be doing better.

Wigan won the FA cup the year before and Portsmouth a few years before that. Winning a cup competition that most big teams don't care that much about should happen to Arsenal once every few years simply through probability based on their status in english football.

 

[drunkenmaster]

If you look at the league positions over the last few years it's easy to say we're not progressing at all. In reality that's probably not fair. For the last ten years we've been working under financial constraints to pay off our new stadium. In that time we've consistently sold off our best players to keep the finances stable and not had the money to buy adequate replacements. There are very few managers who would or could work with those restrictions and still remain as consistent as us.

This is all 100% incorrect, entirely.

NOTHING has changed financially in the past two years, the debt has not gone or changed in terms of how it effects the finances from year to year.

From day one it cost is about 15mil a year, it still does, it will do for another decade. From day one we had about a 50million increase in yearly income from all stadium related activities, tickets, food, drink, corporate events, international matches being held at the emirates(we had a deal with brazil for years to play at the Emirates) with a 15mil cost from interest.

From day one the move to the new stadium was an increase in yearly revenue of 35million, it has never at any stage effected our finances negatively. Our wage spending has increased by 100million a year since the move and our transfer spending has increased.

We NEVER sold our best players to balance the books, we sold our best players as one by one our best players couldn't stomach playing under Wenger. They one by one realised they would achieve nothing under Wenger. Year after year we had Wenger begging for one more year out of Vieira, Henry, Fabregas, RVP, each time, stay a year I promise we'll change... no change, player leaves. Those players leaving not a single one has been about the finances but about those players wanting to leave because they couldn't win anything at Arsenal.

The list of titles won by ex Arsenal players is proof they have been 100% right every single time.

Once again I'll point out that Denilson....... DENILSON, pushed his way out of Arsenal because he wanted to win something. Yes he realised he couldn't play at the top level but he actually did go to Brazil and actually did win stuff. That is how pathetic Arsenal have become, our crap players get frustrated and leave. The only players who stay are those who are milking the gravy train aren't very good and have no ambition.

 

[drunkenmaster]

We should get Klopp in.



Oh wait.

One bad season doesn't make for a bad manager.

Their 1-0 win was the first, literally the first game in any competition that the first team defence has played together since the champions league final around 18 months ago. That is how long they've struggled with constant injuries. Unlike Arsenal with a 170mil wage bill, Dortmund with a somewhere around 60mil have managed to get to champs league finals and win league titles.

When a small squad competes in multiple competitions for multiple years it catches up to you eventually. They've been going through an injury crisis for 18 months and unlike Arsenal who have 100mil in wages worth of better squad than Dortmund, when their first team players are out there is very little depth. To castigate Klopp for achieving WAY more than Wenger in the past 5 years on less than half the budget for an injury problem that no squad of that size/budget could cope with well is laughable.

The fans and board are 100% behind Klopp because they know they are competing with teams with 2-3 times the budget, being consistently competitive and that a bad season will happen now and then.

INjuries hit the confidence of players, multiple injuries all around the squad over a prolonged period of time make it harder to regain form when one player gets back from fitness because both everyone else is out of form and other key players will still be out due to injury. Again I'd point to Newcastle, or Utd, or any team with a huge injury problem... you drop down the table, depending on the squad size/wage bill/quality of depth one team will drop from 5th to relegation fight, another team will drop from 1st to 5th.

Dortmund are a TINY club massively over achieving and are 10 times more vulnerable to an injury crisis than a club spend over 150mil a year in wages.

 

[drunkenmaster]

When Wenger was winning the league every now and then he only had to fight against Man U, now to even think about finishing top 3 he has to fight against 3 of the biggest spending clubs in world football in Chelsea, Man City and man u.

Its all well and good moaning about a 4th place finish every year but football has moved on since you were regular title challengers. There are more clubs with money and other clubs have caught up to the training methods that Wenger 'revolutionised english football with'.

Be careful what you wish for.

Arsenal are one of the biggest spending clubs in world football.... it gets pretty boring when people use the last season 15million wage difference between Arsenal and Chelsea to suggest that it's okay for Arsenal to not compete ever but it's absolutely fine for Chelsea to compete. Chelsea of course are spending some 20mil less than City... yet ahead of them. They are spending less than Utd... yet ahead of them.

Arsenal can't compete when even the gap to City last year was only 30-35million in wages when Atletico with a wage bill or around 60mil beat Real and Barcelona, teams who genuinely are the biggest and best in Europe.

One of the biggest differences between Real and City is that Real have wasted less money.

City and Chelsea in 2004 were teams with new money who were no where near the top, I'd say at least 60-70% of what both teams spent in transfers was wasted and because they were urgent to achieve and improve they went for often 30mil + players where a team without the urgency, with a long term plan, can afford to buy such players 5 years earlier when they cost 5-20mil. Being new in the game means spending higher, it doesn't mean they spend it will or get good value.

Neither City nor Chelsea's spending is directly comparable to Arsenal's which was spent by a single manager with no urgency for results who can and DID spend a lot on cheaper players for the future. Arsenal spent much of the money they have spent poorly.

No one is saying Arsenal should win the title every year, not compete for it every year, but there is proof in every sport in every league in the world that firstly every team has good and bad years, every team is capable of winning and that bigger teams are more consistent in results.

Arsenal have failed to compete for the title, Arsenal haven't had a great year in forever, Arsenal aren't any where near as consistent as the top teams.

The numbers/finances are there for everyone to see yet everyone pretends Arsenal are well, like Dortmund or Atletico. If Wenger was achieve what those two were or consistently 4th on a sub 100mil budget that would be a very different situation. Arsenal are a HUGE club, massively strong financially, anyone who suggests otherwise is ignorant of that fact.

 

[jonneymendoza]

well said