Wenger: Stamp out rugby

at what point is challenging a keeper for the ball becoming obstruction? and if you miss the ball therefore not playing it directly but attempting to does that become a freekick?!

if im stood there or jump to head a cross and the keeper runs into me and falls over failing to get to the ball because im in the way, in what world should that be a free kick?
 
Stop being pedantic. If you attempt to play the ball, that's one thing. But we all know the challenges I'm talking about, where a player practically stands on the keepers' feet, doesn't once look at the ball and then raises his hands to the sky when the ref gives a free kick.
 
Question: Which team would you rather go see money to play, Arsenal or Stoke?

Stoke. You pay to watch the team you support, if were you stop going to watch your club when Allardyce or someone with similar ideas and tactics takes over then you should seriously reconsider why you even watch football.

And anyone who says that referees give goalkeepers too much protection should go read the rules of the game. They clearly state that the goalkeeper cannot be blocked or obstructed within the 6 yard box. And yet teams like Stoke clearly do and often get away with it.

Often get away with it? We get penalised for pathetic things precisely because self-righteous ********* like Wenger spout this crap every week.

Good keepers don't allow themselves to be "obstructed". Stoppers like Given are highly rated because they'll throw themselves at a cross to get to a ball whether they have to pile through 5 opposition bodies or not.
 
I haven't ignored any valid examples. Note I said "attempt" to play the ball, so in your example if you attempt to play the ball but miss, as long as there is no other infringement its not a foul. If you don't attempt to play the ball, it is a foul.
 
Oh look this again, I knew we were playing Blackburn this weekend and pointed it out in another thread earlier this week. Am I surprised about the double standards from fans and media alike just a month and a half after the WC Final?

Should all teams be FAIR, while being HARD with their chosen style of play against us, then neither Wenger nor any Arsenal fan can or more importantly wants to complain. If a team is hard, the tackles clean whilst the bullying there, no issue whatsoever.

However when teams take the Sam Allerdyce approach to football and just blatantly foul away then of course there is a problem. What manager wouldn't raise it? There's a fine line between deliberately physical play, and not being good enough so the less technically able side ends up fouling constantly.

I don't agree with him at all, Wenger wants football to be a non-contact sport as it suits his teams style of play. The likes of Blackburn, Bolton etc know this is their weak spot and close them down and continually press them to disrupt their play. I think the balance the refs have at the moment is spot on as dangerous tackles do almost always result in a red card.

That's the point, if this is all that Blackburn, Bolton etc. did then there'd be no issue. Watch our games against them, and you realise that it usually is never the case.

Wenger not wanting it to be a non contact sport is just utter garbage.

Would you agree that the likes of Stoke, Birmingham, Blackburn etc. are over-physical in their style of play? Some would say that it's impossible for smaller clubs to be sucessful without imploying such tactics.

It's not really a tactic when there's constant fouling. Fouling is exactly that - something deemed illegal within the game that should be punished.

I find myself agreeing with Wenger on this very rare occasion. Though I feel, as he does, that it is up to the referrees to stamp it out of the game rather than the Clubs. If they can get away with it, of course they'll do it. They'd be stupid not to.

Totally agree, which is why there are of course a few approaches to it.

Arsenal should stand up for themselves. Larger players - but should the league discriminate against smaller guys because they can't stand up to these fouls?

Go down easily - like fouling it's up to the refs to spot this, and teams up and down the country do it all the time. It's another 'if they can get away with it' situation. We need somebody like Gerrard, Torres, Drogba, Rooney who not only have a history of going down easily, but they create a situation where halfway through the match, the opposition visibly don't WANT to tackle them. We have..Eboue, says it all really :p.

Neither are right, but both approaches have a sense of 'can't beat 'em, join 'em'.

All in all it's pretty funny really. This physicality gone wrong approach to the game has bred players which are hard but so technically lacking it's worrying. Fans love them (I remember who got more sympathy last year when Shawcross broke Ramsey's leg), but it's these same fans who wonder why on earth we're utter garbage at international tournaments. Perhaps a wholesale change of view is required..*wink*.
 
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KoR i am going to be pedantic because thats NOT what you said:

you actually said:

Exactly. A player doesn't have to move out of the way, but if you impede the goalie while not playing the ball, its obstruction.

you didnt mention attempting to play the ball, you just said while playing the ball.
 
Question: Which team would you rather go see money to play, Arsenal or Stoke?


:D

You are a Stoke fan it doesn't count :p

Arsenal, play better football and they play it the right way (pass and move, flowing and fast, the beautiful game, a near total football approach)

Stoke are made up of big, physical guys who hoof the ball route on towards goal and kick people :p
 
KoR i am going to be pedantic because thats NOT what you said:

you actually said:



you didnt mention attempting to play the ball, you just said while playing the ball.

Fair enough, my mistake:p Although in fairness I did use "attempt" in my two following posts, but you're quite right.
 
However when teams take the Sam Allerdyce approach to football and just blatantly foul away then of course there is a problem. What manager wouldn't raise it? There's a fine line between deliberately physical play, and not being good enough so the less technically able side ends up fouling constantly.

In the last meeting between Blackburn and Arsenal, Blackburn committed 19 fouls to Arsenals 15. As I said earlier, we're still living off a reputation from a match 5 years ago and fans can't seem to move on. Its much easier to claim that a smaller team cheated to win rather than admit they exposed a weakness and capitalised on it.
 
In the last meeting between Blackburn and Arsenal, Blackburn committed 19 fouls to Arsenals 15. As I said earlier, we're still living off a reputation from a match 5 years ago and fans can't seem to move on. Its much easier to claim that a smaller team cheated to win rather than admit they exposed a weakness and capitalised on it.

I think that's Wenger's whole point though isn't it? Just because Blackburn only had four more fouls awarded against them, that doesn't show how many challenges went unpunished by the ref. Wenger's whole point is that players get away with far too much (i.e. Shawcross and Huth in last week's game, which were clearly fouls but the ref did nothing).
 
The only way this issue will get resolved is if the rules are changed so any physical contact is deemed to be a foul. Obviously this would be controversial so i cant see it happening, the better ideo imo is to restore some semblance of parity throughout the league, whether by a salary cap or a limit on transfer numbers and/or fees.

PS Vieira, Adams, Keown etc weren't afraid to give someone a bit of a kicking either.
 
The only way this issue will get resolved is if the rules are changed so any physical contact is deemed to be a foul. Obviously this would be controversial so i cant see it happening, the better ideo imo is to restore some semblance of parity throughout the league, whether by a salary cap or a limit on transfer numbers and/or fees.

PS Vieira, Adams, Keown etc weren't afraid to give someone a bit of a kicking either.

Controversial? It's not controversial, its impossible. Its football, not netball.

Wengers lot are as guilty as ANY other team of rash tackles and its about time the FA had a word with him about these slanderous rants.

Hahahhahah...the F.A do anything, amused myself there.
 
Teams like Stoke, also teams like Barca but nobody cares when its them. Its always been common practice to have somebody mark the keeper on a corner or offensive free kick

Huth spent last Saturday pushing and obstructing Gomes at corners with no intention of playing the ball. Barcelona and other "footballing" teams never go that far.

If the keeper is stood behind me on a corner, and I refuse to move so that he can get to the ball, am I impeding him?

If you are not making an attempt to play the ball, yes. Law 12, page 113 of the current FIFA rules.
 
In the last meeting between Blackburn and Arsenal, Blackburn committed 19 fouls to Arsenals 15. As I said earlier, we're still living off a reputation from a match 5 years ago and fans can't seem to move on.

When Wenger moaned last year it was the culmination of playing those same 5 or 6 sides 12 or more times a year for 5 years. When it happens for so long, it's not wrong to be particularly aware of why we have this thread.

I don't think he was having a pop at your 2-1 victory because there was little wrong with the goals; I don't remember any Arsenal fans nor I taking issue with Blackburn that day to be fair.

In terms of the reputation, there's a reason why it's called the 'Allerdyce approach to football'. He out and out coined the notion of getting "in Arsenal's faces" while managing Bolton, well before he joined Blackburn. Where ever he goes he instills it into his sides...and don't forget also that there are others who have copied it.

Its much easier to claim that a smaller team cheated to win rather than admit they exposed a weakness and capitalised on it.

...And as said, it usually goes far beyond being physical (a weakness) and ends up with one opponent suffering from lots of fouls. There's no problem from fans or our manager if we've been tactically outdone or out played within the laws of the game.

Wengers lot are as guilty as ANY other team of rash tackles and its about time the FA had a word with him about these slanderous rants.

But SOME teams are obviously guilty of fouling far more than others to make up for their technical shortcomings. There's something wholly unfair of that approach to play football. Pointing this out is of course, not slander.
 
to be fair even UTD do it to arsenal.

we dont play fletcher and park etc for their skill...vs arsenal we always turn the intensity up, get right in their faces.

wenger used to have a team who could deal with it and do it as well, with Viera, Campbell, Keown etc

now he has created the lightweight fast midfield and defence it is bound to happen. a lot.
 
It would've been interesting to hear what Wenger would've said had he been a manager of an opposing team when Arsenal had the likes of Dixon, Keown, Winterburn, Adams and Viera playing for them. If you build a team of lightweights you should expect other teams to bully you.
 
but skippi that practice is something else i completely disagree with.

in what sense is sheilding the ball attemtpig to play the ball?

if theyu were trying to play it, they would put their feet out and try to kick it... not shibby to each side frantically trying to block off the other player whilst the ball rolls off the pitch untouched by either play. it is very frustrating to watch. id give it as obstruction every time.
 
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