US: Westworld

Dirk · 27 Jun 2018 at 07:10

Jono8 said:
What a ridiculous mess.

I've enjoyed this Season, maybe more than most, but that finale just didn't do it for me. It felt too unsatisfying. The whole Eden concept, the virtual worlds within worlds, all felt completely unnecessary and overthought. I love non-linear storytelling, but the overcomplicated plot was getting in it's own way.

Glanza · 27 Jun 2018 at 08:25

That's the first episode in a while I've lost track in parts so much happening and with all the different time jumps it was allover the shop, especially when you add in the after credits scene.

Alt shift X have their work cut out this week to make sense of it all

AndyCr15 · 27 Jun 2018 at 08:36

I feel a bit better, watching a YouTube review they seem to think it was rather all over the place and no-one seems to be too sure what's actually going on!

My first thought on the post credits scene was it was Bobby Ewing waking up from a dream all over again. Everything we'd been watching was just testing William in his own digital world!

Glanza · 27 Jun 2018 at 09:19

I think with the time jump William died on the beach where we last saw him and Delos have tried to bring him back and chosen the moment he was going down the lift as his starting point before the fidelity test.

CaptainRAVE · 27 Jun 2018 at 09:40

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...iam-a-host-end-of-credits-explainer-time-jump

I still don't get it

Deleted member 651465 · 27 Jun 2018 at 09:47

You're welcome. Ps, skip the first minute of guff.

CaptainRAVE · 27 Jun 2018 at 10:40

Helpful, thanks.

doodah · 27 Jun 2018 at 11:52

Going to need to watch a few of these including Alt-X to process all of that. Decent episode though!

JediFragger · 27 Jun 2018 at 13:16

CaptainRAVE said:
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...iam-a-host-end-of-credits-explainer-time-jump

I still don't get it

Wow, and that was their idea of simple!! We're all ****** when Season 3 rolls around then

CaptainRAVE · 27 Jun 2018 at 13:50

At this point I feel like the multiple timelines are detracting from the story. The idea is fantastic, but they are trying to be too clever.

DampDog · 27 Jun 2018 at 13:58

CaptainRAVE said:
At this point I feel like the multiple timelines are detracting from the story. The idea is fantastic, but they are trying to be too clever.

Same here, good idea but they are doing it to death. It's making it all less coherent. My guess would be that there are actually no "hosts" as such at all. Everyone within Westworld a "customer" going through the "forge" to turn them into a full fidelity copy. Good show, if a tad convoluted, well more than a tad.

Deleted member 651465 · 27 Jun 2018 at 16:14

I agree to a point, but beyond the time jumps it really that difficult?

There are 4 locations (not counting shogun world / other simulations)

The real world
Westworld (simulated world)
The forge (a control system designed to test collected data)
The valley beyond (I'll call this a virtual machine (VM) inside westworld)

So far we know that...

Humans live in the real world
Delos Inc, invests in and runs Westworld to collects data/dna from visitors for ~30 years in an attempt to cheat death
Ford likes to play silly buggers with wild narratives providing Delos agrees to keep out of his way
After many years of being abused hosts become self-aware and rebel
The hosts that have achieved consciousness decide to head for the valley beyond
After many failed experiments humans realise that using a map of a human brain inside a host body to cheat death won't work
Bernard/Ford realise that human minds can only exist inside the valley beyond / the forge
In order to make convincing human-host hybrids the subjects must be tested for "fidelity" using the collected data as a baseline. This takes a long time.
Delores is set against destroying humanity because Delores

I've enjoyed the subtle editing where they've played with time but what is bugging me is that they're slowly revealing that every human is basically a host. It's losing the impact it once did.

DampDog · 27 Jun 2018 at 17:05

EVH said:
I agree to a point, but beyond the time jumps it really that difficult?

There are 4 locations (not counting shogun world / other simulations)

The real world
Westworld (simulated world)
The forge (a control system designed to test collected data)
The valley beyond (I'll call this a virtual machine (VM) inside westworld)
(I think that the "real world" is also a simulated world again to test fidelity? What they perceive to be the real world )

So far we know that...

Humans live in the real world

Delos Inc, invests in and runs Westworld to collects data/dna from visitors for ~30 years in an attempt to cheat death

Ford likes to play silly buggers with wild narratives providing Delos agrees to keep out of his way

After many years of being abused hosts become self-aware and rebel (Now I think there is going to be a twist, in that all the "Host's" are actually "Human-copies" and Westworld is actually the "forge" they go through to reach "Fidelity." Some of them have been within the system for a very, very long time and almost become lost in the system. Some of them becoming "self-aware" before reaching full "fidelity" but wanting their own life anyway.)

The hosts that have achieved consciousness decide to head for the valley beyond.

After many failed experiments humans realise that using a map of a human brain inside a host body to cheat death won't work

Bernard/Ford realise that human minds can only exist inside the valley beyond / the forge

In order to make convincing human-host hybrids the subjects must be tested for "fidelity" using the collected data as a baseline. This takes a long time.

Delores is set against destroying humanity because Delores

(What is Williams role going to be? I think the time-line is deliberately confused with William and we have seen him as Human and now Host. Might it be that willaim is trapped because he keeps looping back to his daughter is some way?)
I've enjoyed the subtle editing where they've played with time but what is bugging me is that they're slowly revealing that every human is basically a host. It's losing the impact it once did.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said. More musing on possibilities

Jono8 · 27 Jun 2018 at 17:52

Dirk said:
I've enjoyed this Season, maybe more than most, but that finale just didn't do it for me. It felt too unsatisfying. The whole Eden concept, the virtual worlds within worlds, all felt completely unnecessary and overthought. I love non-linear storytelling, but the overcomplicated plot was getting in it's own way.

I enjoyed season 1 but this was a mess and ridiculously stupid. I kept with it, but the finale was even worse than i thought it was going to be.

Season 1 was clever, thoughtful and well written. This was.....bad.

Rroff · 28 Jun 2018 at 16:08

I'm glad I waited until I could watch the whole lot in one go - I think watching it weekly ruins it and makes it too hard to keep ahead of the different threads - I can see why people would have a negative impression of it if they watched in that manner.

Other than some oddities with Ake's story line and the Eastern world stuff where occasionally they seemed to forget the "rules" from season 1 I enjoyed pretty much every episode.

Also not really satisfied with the explanation as to what happened to Eden - the finale in general seemed the weakest bit of the whole season by a long way but on the other hand could be redeemed in season 3 aslong as they play the cards right.

Didn't think it was as far from season 1 as some complain - they just aren't paying enough attention though again that it something watching it weekly probably doesn't help with.

TheVoice · 28 Jun 2018 at 16:18

CaptainRAVE said:
At this point I feel like the multiple timelines are detracting from the story. The idea is fantastic, but they are trying to be too clever.

Same goes for the dialogue, it felt like everyone was speaking in riddles this season, it was getting really silly.

Jono8 · 30 Jun 2018 at 12:19

TheVoice said:
Same goes for the dialogue, it felt like everyone was speaking in riddles this season, it was getting really silly.

When Dolores said " you just don't get it" or "you don't understand" or something along those lines to someone for the one hundredth time , i sighed.

robfosters · 30 Jun 2018 at 12:57

I enjoyed it, but not as much as the first series. It was tiring to follow properly and became a bit of a chore to watch at times. Hope they keep the third series lineal without all the stupid alternating timelines.

AndyCr15 · 30 Jun 2018 at 16:41

That's probably unlikely given that's their thing really.

Jono8 · 1 Jul 2018 at 09:24

The more i think about it, the more everything annoyed me about this season.

The main thing, was the security clean up operation. This is the future with near realistic replications of humans, but they send a bunch of average soldiers with p90's to go in and sort it out?

A few drone like things could have killed all the hostile hosts in no time at all. Also, why don't they have some sort of targeted emp device that takes out the hosts brains which we know are electrical/computer based?

All the shoot outs in this season seemed like pointless and silly filler.

Why on earth were they still be using that stupid neck ordinance checker to see who was a host or not? By the end, they knew there was the potential for hosts made without this in them. Honestly, you are telling me that when this was set they had nothing that could scan the head and notice the difference between a human brain and the computer/AI brain inside?

I realise with sci-fi you have to suspend disbelief, but this for me was too much. The dissonance between how technologically advanced the AI and hosts were and how rubbish and 1990esque the tech and clean up crew were, was too much.

US: Westworld

Deleted member 651465

Deleted member 651465

Deleted member 651465

Deleted member 651465