US: Westworld

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 5 May 2020 at 22:05

The last few part of the finale was a mess.

What is with the stormtrooper like shooting with the people in this show? Surely if they are fighting Hosts,they would be running right into them,and use larger calibre and EM weapons? Its almost like the humans in the show are stupid.

The same with the hosts impersonating people,that means robotics is well developed - surely with Delos making accurate replicas of humans,there would be X-Ray scanners,etc to make sure important places were not infiltrated by robots. But no they can make a supercomputer but not use commonsense..or aim.

Also what they did with William was lazy writing,so now he is out to destroy the world. No wonder Ed Harris wasn't happy the way things went with his character:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/westworld-season-3-ed-harris-man-black-explained-1290835

Now we have to put up with more Hosts pretending to be people. Boring.

Bascially you get invested in certain characters,and they just use lazy ways to explain away all the stuff.

Then the fact the supercomputer showed humanity was screwed,so instead of using it to try and help,they ended up destroying because anarchy is the best way forward.
Caleb is a moron - moments before he saw the numbers on humanity dying in droves and was horrified. Minutes later,since he was going to get shot,and do some wishy washy prep talk,its like screw it,let a few billion die,because of muh choice.Then standing there with the city being destroyed,whilst so many people are dying thinking he is doing good.

If you look back at previous episodes,the supercomputer points out to a world leader,that his corruption was why people were revolting and to stop it otherwise he would be dealt with. They seemed to have forgotten that scene entirely....so I assume that leader will just screw over those people are revolting by shooting them all and taking the money as he planned. Which means the same everywhere will happen.

So basically anarchy and corruption is good,government is bad - seems more like some Libertarian view of things. Survival of fittest. So basically all the rich and wealthy can survive,and those willing to kill remorselessly and if you are not tough luck. So basically moving from a total dictatorship to total anarachy.

So how is Caleb and Maeve going to fight all the powerful people,who were under the leash of the supercomputer and now are free to do whatever they want? Use special ninjutsu powers and technobabble? Also shooting,lots of shooting with enemies who are crosseyed. So nothing changes then,but gets worse.

The more I think of the ending,the more it reminds me of the ME3 ending which EA pushed on the game,which made less sense if you actually thought about it.

People criticise Lost,but it had a better finale in the end,and less cliches.

Jono8 · 5 May 2020 at 22:28

Well.....I was enjoying this season up until the last few episodes.

The finale was complete dross.

Jono8 · 5 May 2020 at 22:44

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
The last few part of the finale was a mess.

What is with the stormtrooper like shooting with the people in this show? Surely if they are fighting Hosts,they would be running right into them,and use larger calibre and EM weapons? Its almost like the humans in the show are stupid.

The same with the hosts impersonating people,that means robotics is well developed - surely with Delos making accurate replicas of humans,there would be X-Ray scanners,etc to make sure important places were not infiltrated by robots. But no they can make a supercomputer but not use commonsense..or aim.

Also what they did with William was lazy writing,so now he is out to destroy the world. No wonder Ed Harris wasn't happy the way things went with his character:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/westworld-season-3-ed-harris-man-black-explained-1290835

Now we have to put up with more Hosts pretending to be people. Boring.

Bascially you get invested in certain characters,and they just use lazy ways to explain away all the stuff.

Then the fact the supercomputer showed humanity was screwed,so instead of using it to try and help,they ended up destroying because anarchy is the best way forward.
Caleb is a moron - moments before he saw the numbers on humanity dying in droves and was horrified. Minutes later,since he was going to get shot,and do some wishy washy prep talk,its like screw it,let a few billion die,because of muh choice.Then standing there with the city being destroyed,whilst so many people are dying thinking he is doing good.

If you look back at previous episodes,the supercomputer points out to a world leader,that his corruption was why people were revolting and to stop it otherwise he would be dealt with. They seemed to have forgotten that scene entirely....so I assume that leader will just screw over those people are revolting by shooting them all and taking the money as he planned. Which means the same everywhere will happen.

So basically anarchy and corruption is good,government is bad - seems more like some Libertarian view of things. Survival of fittest. So basically all the rich and wealthy can survive,and those willing to kill remorselessly and if you are not tough luck. So basically moving from a total dictatorship to total anarachy.

So how is Caleb and Maeve going to fight all the powerful people,who were under the leash of the supercomputer and now are free to do whatever they want? Use special ninjutsu powers and technobabble? Also shooting,lots of shooting with enemies who are crosseyed. So nothing changes then,but gets worse.

The more I think of the ending,the more it reminds me of the ME3 ending which EA pushed on the game,which made less sense if you actually thought about it.

People criticise Lost,but it had a better finale in the end,and less cliches.

The writing was awful. There were so many things to list, but one that stood out and made me shout at the TV was when Caleb said he thought Maeve was dead.

WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT CALEB. ARE YOU COMPLETELY BRAIN DEAD? A MOMENT AGO YOU TOOK THE AI BRAIN FROM EMP ZAPPED DOLORES AND PUT IT IN A NEW BODY. EMP ZAPPED DOLORES WAS LYING RIGHT NEXT TO EMP ZAPPED MAEVE. MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN IDEA TO TAKE HER BRAIN TOO SO VIEWERS WEREN'T SUBJECTED TO YET ANOTHER BORING DOLORES VS MAEVE FIGHT.

Rroff · 5 May 2020 at 22:49

Jono8 said:
The writing was awful. There were so many things to list, but one that stood out and made me shout at the TV was when Caleb said he thought Maeve was dead.

WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT CALEB. ARE YOU COMPLETELY BRAIN DEAD? A MOMENT AGO YOU TOOK THE AI BRAIN FROM EMP ZAPPED DOLORES AND PUT IT IN A NEW BODY. EMP ZAPPED DOLORES WAS LYING RIGHT NEXT TO EMP ZAPPED MAEVE. MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN IDEA TO TAKE HER BRAIN TOO SO VIEWERS WEREN'T SUBJECTED TO YET ANOTHER BORING DOLORES VS MAEVE FIGHT.

Did Caleb know what happened to Maeve or even know if she was a host? I can't recall those details. Although it wouldn't be that hard to figure out but I don't recall Delores clarifying why they'd need the EMP either.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 5 May 2020 at 22:57

Jono8 said:
The writing was awful. There were so many things to list, but one that stood out and made me shout at the TV was when Caleb said he thought Maeve was dead.

WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT CALEB. ARE YOU COMPLETELY BRAIN DEAD? A MOMENT AGO YOU TOOK THE AI BRAIN FROM EMP ZAPPED DOLORES AND PUT IT IN A NEW BODY. EMP ZAPPED DOLORES WAS LYING RIGHT NEXT TO EMP ZAPPED MAEVE. MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN IDEA TO TAKE HER BRAIN TOO SO VIEWERS WEREN'T SUBJECTED TO YET ANOTHER BORING DOLORES VS MAEVE FIGHT.

That would be commonsense surely!

I honestly don't understand how the world is actually better after what they done. Serac did what he did because he realised where humanity was heading. So now they have reset the world back to where is was before,which means cities being nuked,etc. So they are saying the computer was bad because of what it did to the outliers,so a world full of anarchy is now better,since all the ones with no power,will be back to being cannon fodder?

How is that an improvement,when it didn't work before. Surely,if you had a supercomputer like that,it could be used to model other ways of doing things?? Also what is with the stupid lack of security around the two most powerful supercomputers in the world,or the lack of the supercomputer not realising it was being hacked,or not having a backup??

Also having virtually no security for the second most powerful supercomputer in the worlds with 1000s of people on ice. Makes entire sense they would skimp on the security. Also all the heroes have supersmartguns but the biggest companies in the world in that universe, can only afford budget-rent-a-securityguy.dotcom security. No anti-UAV or surveillance technology,etc. Oh,and they all have body armour which lacks armour.

Also Stubbs even gets one punch and he is on the edge of dying,but the others get a 100 bullet holes and "its just a flesh wound".

Also,this big plan the other supercomputer made was to switch off its brother?? WTF - I thought the plan was the algorithms being altered to do something different.

When they destroyed the other supercomputer,they also killed all the outliers put on ice too,so they made things worse. They are even worse than the French guy.

Oh,and the biggest blunder of all is yet to come:

In fact,why even have a supercomputer in such an exposed location? Surely if they want to destroy it, that Host impersonating the security guy,who blew himself up - why did he not just jump onto the supercomputer and blow it up?? Why even go through the rigmarole....that would have done the same thing!

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 5 May 2020 at 23:11

From Reddit:

Westworld S3 in a nutshell

Serac: I finally have you now Dolores!
Dolores: Nice try, but that was all a part of my plan!
Caleb: what the **** is going on

Bernard: Dolores is trying to take over the world and enslave the humans! She's going to replace everyone and turn humans against each other! And I know all of this because the plot needs someone to explain it to the audience!
Stubbs: **** you bernard.

William: im gonna save the ******* world

Serac: You may have gotten me that time Dolores but NOW I have you for real!
Dolores: nah all part of my plan again
Caleb: seriously what the **** is going on

Bernard: She's going to use Caleb as a pawn to make the humans kill each other and build her own robot world!
Stubbs: how the **** do u know any of this weve just been randomly walking around this whole season

William: im gonna save the ******* world

Serac: Okay Dolores, you may have bested me the last two times but NOW I've got you for su-
Dolores: nope all part of my plan
Caleb: alright i give up

Bernard: Dolores was actually the good guy the whole time and sacrificed herself so that hosts can live in harmony with humans in a better world, and she put the encryption key inside of me because she knew only I could be trusted with it-
Stubbs: BERNARD WE'VE LITERALLY BEEN RANDOMLY GOING FROM MOTEL TO MOTEL BY OURSELVES THIS WHOLE SEASON HOW DO YOU KNOW ANY OF THIS!
Bernard: There's no time to explain, I must go to the sublime with the other hosts for the next 10 years!
Stubbs: cool so i guess ill just chill here in this bathtub

William: im gonna save the ******* worl-
Nega William kills William

also something happened with maeve i think i dont remember

https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/gdifip/westworld_s3_in_a_nutshell/

Jono8 · 6 May 2020 at 09:43

Rroff said:
Did Caleb know what happened to Maeve or even know if she was a host? I can't recall those details. Although it wouldn't be that hard to figure out but I don't recall Delores clarifying why they'd need the EMP either.

Wouldn't it have been obvious? Even if not (inexplicable), why not check if she had an ai brain? He thought she was dead after all...

If you have some crazy katana wielding robot trying to stop your plan, you should be damn sure to make it so it doesn't come back.

Jono8 · 6 May 2020 at 09:55

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
From Reddit:

Westworld S3 in a nutshell

Serac: I finally have you now Dolores!
Dolores: Nice try, but that was all a part of my plan!
Caleb: what the **** is going on

Bernard: Dolores is trying to take over the world and enslave the humans! She's going to replace everyone and turn humans against each other! And I know all of this because the plot needs someone to explain it to the audience!
Stubbs: **** you bernard.

William: im gonna save the ******* world

Serac: You may have gotten me that time Dolores but NOW I have you for real!
Dolores: nah all part of my plan again
Caleb: seriously what the **** is going on

Bernard: She's going to use Caleb as a pawn to make the humans kill each other and build her own robot world!
Stubbs: how the **** do u know any of this weve just been randomly walking around this whole season

William: im gonna save the ******* world

Serac: Okay Dolores, you may have bested me the last two times but NOW I've got you for su-
Dolores: nope all part of my plan
Caleb: alright i give up

Bernard: Dolores was actually the good guy the whole time and sacrificed herself so that hosts can live in harmony with humans in a better world, and she put the encryption key inside of me because she knew only I could be trusted with it-
Stubbs: BERNARD WE'VE LITERALLY BEEN RANDOMLY GOING FROM MOTEL TO MOTEL BY OURSELVES THIS WHOLE SEASON HOW DO YOU KNOW ANY OF THIS!
Bernard: There's no time to explain, I must go to the sublime with the other hosts for the next 10 years!
Stubbs: cool so i guess ill just chill here in this bathtub

William: im gonna save the ******* worl-
Nega William kills William

also something happened with maeve i think i dont remember

https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/gdifip/westworld_s3_in_a_nutshell/

I saw this last night on reddit and it made me laugh a lot. Especially - Stubbs: cool so i guess ill just chill here in this bathtub

Also, why did Serac's chief of security try to kill Caleb with a a bit of razor wire instead of just shooting him. He had the jump on him, but instead thought it would be a good idea to play out his Hitman 47 fantasies?

Glanza · 6 May 2020 at 12:23

Hopefully people realized they was an additional 5 minutes after the credits, had to mention it to my dad as he didn't check and missed them.

I enjoyed this season even though it didn't really feel like Westworld, considering the time jump at the end of s2 credits and the s3 one I wonder how the timelines are going to line up.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 6 May 2020 at 13:19

Jono8 said:
I saw this last night on reddit and it made me laugh a lot. Especially - Stubbs: cool so i guess ill just chill here in this bathtub

Also, why did Serac's chief of security try to kill Caleb with a a bit of razor wire instead of just shooting him. He had the jump on him, but instead thought it would be a good idea to play out his Hitman 47 fantasies?

Why is the main control interface in the foyer? Honestly a grenade to the supercomputer two episodes in would have done the same thing,and literally the Host head of security exploded in the same building.

So a few episodes in they would have achieved the same outcome,with less ****** about and a lower body count and no need for Caleb. This reminds me about the meme about Indiana Jones in one movie,that whether he was there or not,everything would have happened the same way.

People were moaning about Picard,but that had less suspension of disbelief than the last half of this Westworld season,and I tend not to judge shows until I finish the season.

Jono8 · 6 May 2020 at 13:49

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Why is the main control interface in the foyer? Honestly a grenade to the supercomputer two episodes in would have done the same thing,and literally the Host head of security exploded in the same building.

So a few episodes in they would have achieved the same outcome,with less ****** about and a lower body count and no need for Caleb. This reminds me about the meme about Indiana Jones in one movie,that whether he was there or not,everything would have happened the same way.

People were moaning about Picard,but that had less suspension of disbelief than the last half of this Westworld season,and I tend not to judge shows until I finish the season.

Yep. Hardly any of the last bit of this season made any sense.

As you say, Caleb was entirely pointless. The Dolores acting as the security chief could have destroyed rehoboam a few epidsodes in. I also completely didnt understand the whole "Caleb leading the revolution bit". How? What difference did he make? Why did people follow him?

The trouble that loads of bad writers fall into is that they start making the plot drive the characters motivations and actions rather than the other way around.

Game of Thrones suffered the same fate. It is like they try to force a scenario/ending that simply does not fit with the characters or the situations they have been put in previously.

It really was incredulously stupid.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 6 May 2020 at 14:56

Jono8 said:
Yep. Hardly any of the last bit of this season made any sense.

As you say, Caleb was entirely pointless. The Dolores acting as the security chief could have destroyed rehoboam a few epidsodes in. I also completely didnt understand the whole "Caleb leading the revolution bit". How? What difference did he make? Why did people follow him?

The trouble that loads of bad writers fall into is that they start making the plot drive the characters motivations and actions rather than the other way around.

Game of Thrones suffered the same fate. It is like they try to force a scenario/ending that simply does not fit with the characters or the situations they have been put in previously.

It really was incredulously stupid.

It really has put me off the next season now. Now it's all attack of the killer clone robots. Also fakeHale is dumb. So she loves her human family,and they die,so now she wants to kill all of humanity,so she wants everyone to feel the grief she had. But it was all down to her own kind,ie,Dolores....so shouldn't she actually hate her kind more?? Even with Maeve,all of a sudden she dispels all the killing Dolores did,even though she said she does not trust her words,but all of a sudden she has a quick chat,and she is on her side.

This reminds me also of the last season of BSG,where the humans and their allies were acting dumber and dumber,and I actually thought the older Cylons actually seemed to be acting with more commonsense.

The Westworld world is full of utter morons....it must be the prequel to Idiocracy.

Edit!!

Also the most powerful predictive supercomputer,apparently does no sort of danger analysis at all. I saw one poster on Reddit who said maybe it wanted to kill itself so allowed everything to happen - with that level of writing I wouldn't blame it!!

ivrytwr3 · 7 May 2020 at 07:39

CliffyG said:
Still doesn't feel like Westworld to me. Just a generic sci-fi, it's watchable but no where near as enjoyable as the first season.

I've just finished episode 4 and my feelings too. We seem to have gone from a sandbox environment to an on the rails shooter.

WW1, was jaw dropping - open world. multiple stories and timelines, i used to have to watch videos and comments to fully appreciate and understand - awesome!!!

From what i've seen so far is we have an elaborate Oceans 11 heist.

And Caleb? What's the point? Dolores just seems to be babysitting him and is more of a hindrance than he is useful - did they just want a recognisable actor to boost ratings?

Nazi world - at the end of S2 this was one of the big hypes for S3 - and it looked amazing, we got 5mins of it

I preferred it when we saw other parks and the outside world was glimpses or flashbacks.

Very disappointed so far

Malevolence · 7 May 2020 at 07:43

Wonder what he saw and how long he was seeing it for?

Jono8 · 7 May 2020 at 10:46

The more i think about it, the more i realise the whole season was complete bunkum (more so as it went on - i was enjoying the first half).

Wasn't Bernard wanted as the orchestrator of the massacre earlier on in the season? Well, what happened to that? He seemed to be able to roam freely around after the first few episodes and no one cared and i'm pretty sure he was walking around public places and high security facilities/buildings.

As has been pointed out, if the plan was just to destroy rehoboam, why not get the security chief she body swapped with to just blow it up?

You can just upload files to rehoboam in the middle of the lobby with no password/encryption key needed? What? Like he literally just walks up to it and plugs a usb stick into it (!)

Wouldnt it have been obvious that plugging Dolores directly into rehoboam was a bad idea? Like, a super bad idea? "Oh no, she uploaded something into it, we never saw that coming"

That security bloke channeling Hitman and going for the razor wire kill on Caleb near the end rather than just shooting him (!?)

What the **** was the Lawrence thing about? That just seemed like unwarranted fan service. Did she use one of the precious brain units just for Lawrence to conveniently show up at the right time and give Bernard that brief case? Did they just think it would be cool and the audience would be going "Wahey look, i know that character from the previous seasons!"

Instead of paying the sniper to kill the other two people attacking her and walk away near the end, why did she just not use her seemingly infinite money to pay all the people attacking her to....not attack her.

What was the police craft thing all about? Caleb and the gang just seemed to bash through a roadblock, then he just was able to get into the police car/ship thing and it just immediately took him to incite, no questions asked...what?

All the little details, hints, fan theories etc amounted to NOTHING. There was no clever reveal, no twist, no drama. It was just "lol erase yourself rehoboam" - now the world blows up. Fin.

To be honest, we should all feel like our intelligence has been assaulted during that last episode. It was VERY badly written.

Season 1 was probably one of the best TV seasons ever. The drop in writing quality is immense.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 7 May 2020 at 11:49

It makes no logical sense,and it's meant to be some serious hard sci-fi unlike Star Trek or Stargate.

Malevolence said:
Wonder what he saw and how long he was seeing it for?

Stubbs is going to VERY annoyed at being stuck in the bathtub for so long.

ivrytwr3 · 8 May 2020 at 23:32

S3 - garbage.

Wasn't WW at all, just a scfi-fi show, bladerunner-esque.

Rroff · 8 May 2020 at 23:44

Jono8 said:
To be honest, we should all feel like our intelligence has been assaulted during that last episode. It was VERY badly written.

TBH wasn't any better or worse written than your average TV show these days, but not the level I expect from Westworld.

ivrytwr3 said:
S3 - garbage.

Wasn't WW at all, just a scfi-fi show, bladerunner-esque.

They tried to play with the idea of Westworld as a concept but it just wasn't developed into anything meaningful just used almost incidentally as a framework.

Jono8 · 10 May 2020 at 11:08

Rroff said:
TBH wasn't any better or worse written than your average TV show these days, but not the level I expect from Westworld.

Agreed. But i was just expecting so much more. It unfortunately just unraveled into using the most common movie/TV story cliches.

LiE · 10 May 2020 at 11:12

Next season, it turns all of season 3 was infact a simulation and we never left the parks. Please make it so.