What defines a fast car in 2020?

AWPC said:
Megane RS3 or 4 will leave M3 and plenty of other cars for dead too ;) its all about torque & how it puts it down on the road plus hot hatches have amazing power to weight ratios. :p

400-500-600+ BHP cars with mega engines are great too but they have to haul a chassis which weights 100-200KG more than a hot hatch :eek: the extra horsepower does not really kick in until you are well into 3 figures licence ending territory then & only then will you smoke a hot hatch!

If money was no object I would still take a hot hatch over something which had more weight & 400-600BHP as running costs on those are shocking vs a hot hatch uses a lot of petrol on the turbo engines but the other running costs are a lot cheaper to say an M3!!
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A Golf R is around 1550kg whilst a McLaren 765LT is down around 1350kg. Even the heavier 720s is only 1450kg. A FWD hot hatch may be down around 1300-1350 but that lacks the traction of the heavier 4wd ones.
 
So much focus on 0-60 times and acceleration up to around speed limit speeds. Properly quick cars are just getting their **** together at 70mph, just clearing their throats ready for the proper challenge of going fast. Modern cars have become so quick that it makes the whole speed debate a little mute for me. My car could be out accelerated in most situations to 60mph by a rapid hot hatch because it's 2WD and struggles off the line unless perfect conditions. Thing is my use case has never been away from the light speeds. I never once, not once, used launch control in 40K miles in my R8 for example. Go for a drive in an AMG45 and then come for a drive in mine and tell me which one feels the fastest and most special. No contest and to that point data in spreadsheets does not make a special car or even a fast one if you are on an autobahn.
 
AWPC said:
400-500-600+ BHP cars with mega engines are great too but they have to haul a chassis which weights 100-200KG more than a hot hatch :eek: the extra horsepower does not really kick in until you are well into 3 figures licence ending territory then & only then will you smoke a hot hatch!
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What are you basing this on? I have 600HP and weigh more than 200kg over the average hot hatch. This power is fully accessible and will easily ‘smoke’ a hot hatch, even with the family aboard and a full boot load of shopping. The days of power only being accessible above three figure speeds is long past.


If money was no object I would still take a hot hatch over something which had more weight & 400-600BHP as running costs on those are shocking vs a hot hatch uses a lot of petrol on the turbo engines but the other running costs are a lot cheaper to say an M3!!
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You talk about a money no object scenario and then say you’d pick a hot hatch due to running costs? Ermm no you wouldn’t.
 
Squidward said:
RS3 hatch will leave the M3 for dead
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No it won't. Very few cars will - the sheer amount of extra power you need over another car to leave it 'for dead' is massively underestimated by people on the internet I'd suggest.

I'd imagine an RS3 is quicker than an M3 around any half decent racing circuit. Perhaps even a couple of seconds quicker and we all know that when it comes to lap times, a couple of seconds is an absolute age. So you could probably rightly describe that as 'quicker'. But lets think about what that actually means. An RS3 and an M3 set off for a lap of a track. After an entire lap, the RS3 crosses the line. Now count to 2. The M3 crosses the line. Basically just behind it. It hasn't left it 'for dead' at all, it's right there.

And this is on a racing circuit - where you can drive as hard as you possibly can. On a road, the difference is even less. I suspect the similar car an Audi RS3 is going to leave 'for dead' is an Audi A3 2.0 TDI.

Incidentally I checked some lap times to support my argument. Unfortunately, they all showed that a BMW M3 is actually a couple of seconds quicker around most tracks than the RS3, but the point remains the same.
 
Housey said:
So much focus on 0-60 times and acceleration up to around speed limit speeds. Properly quick cars are just getting their **** together at 70mph, just clearing their throats ready for the proper challenge of going fast. Modern cars have become so quick that it makes the whole speed debate a little mute for me. My car could be out accelerated in most situations to 60mph by a rapid hot hatch because it's 2WD and struggles off the line unless perfect conditions. Thing is my use case has never been away from the light speeds. I never once, not once, used launch control in 40K miles in my R8 for example. Go for a drive in an AMG45 and then come for a drive in mine and tell me which one feels the fastest and most special. No contest and to that point data in spreadsheets does not make a special car or even a fast one if you are on an autobahn.
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This is the key bit for me.

Doesn’t matter how fast or slow a car is, old or new, it’s how it makes you feel when you get in - Could be the noise, the grip, the interior, speed or nostalgia - but you sit in it and you feel special.
 
Housey said:
So much focus on 0-60 times and acceleration up to around speed limit speeds. Properly quick cars are just getting their **** together at 70mph, just clearing their throats ready for the proper challenge of going fast. Modern cars have become so quick that it makes the whole speed debate a little mute for me. My car could be out accelerated in most situations to 60mph by a rapid hot hatch because it's 2WD and struggles off the line unless perfect conditions. Thing is my use case has never been away from the light speeds. I never once, not once, used launch control in 40K miles in my R8 for example. Go for a drive in an AMG45 and then come for a drive in mine and tell me which one feels the fastest and most special. No contest and to that point data in spreadsheets does not make a special car or even a fast one if you are on an autobahn.
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I actually had a passenger ride in an A45, and then an R8 V10, at an OCUK meet some years ago. Granted I wasn't the driver, but you are absolutely right. The A45 felt frantic and neck-snapping off the line but then it's a lot of power (relatively) with 4WD in a small car. The R8 just accelerated. And kept accelerating. And kept on doing so until the driver lifted his right foot. The swell of acceleration, especially at high speeds, just didn't let up, and that's the difference. All while the V10 was singing the song of its people.
 
Tenzo said:
This is the key bit for me.

Doesn’t matter how fast or slow a car is, old or new, it’s how it makes you feel when you get in - Could be the noise, the grip, the interior, speed or nostalgia - but you sit in it and you feel special.
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Has to be a balance of things for me.
I would feel ‘special’ in a car I was paying through the nose for (but not the type of special you mean I think).

It’s isn’t always cut and dried either, I know a guy who bought a MK2 Focus RS, kept it 6 years and px’d it for £2000 less than he paid for it.
Now that’s value (I think he’s now regretting getting rid however).
 
SkodaMart said:
Has to be a balance of things for me.
I would feel ‘special’ in a car I was paying through the nose for (but not the type of special you mean I think).
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Yeah, not a “look at me” special but more the emotional side of it. It’s obviously very subjective - hence why some people love a 2CV and others an MG etc etc

My old 205 GTi had that - loved its fun factor, it’s looks, rattles etc. Probably some rose tinted glasses, but I’d love another at some point.

Anyway, I’m sidetracking from the subject. Any car can be fast on the road, assuming some idiot wants to drive it that way. If a Clio or a Porsche hit me at 100, it’s going to end up pretty badly either way.
 
Kenai said:
Twice in one thread, i'll acknowledge your joke :p
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I hope so.
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Housey said:
So much focus on 0-60 times and acceleration up to around speed limit speeds. Properly quick cars are just getting their **** together at 70mph, just clearing their throats ready for the proper challenge of going fast. Modern cars have become so quick that it makes the whole speed debate a little mute for me. My car could be out accelerated in most situations to 60mph by a rapid hot hatch because it's 2WD and struggles off the line unless perfect conditions. Thing is my use case has never been away from the light speeds. I never once, not once, used launch control in 40K miles in my R8 for example. Go for a drive in an AMG45 and then come for a drive in mine and tell me which one feels the fastest and most special. No contest and to that point data in spreadsheets does not make a special car or even a fast one if you are on an autobahn.
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Agreed entirely.

Squidward said:
RS3 hatch will leave the M3 for dead
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For dead? Spend some time at a drag strip and you’ll realise how little there actually is between many high performance cars.
 
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