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What do gamers actually think about Ray-Tracing?

Well as said above, it doesn't matter what the average Joe's think, no matter how much they show their detest, it's the direction the industry is heading in whether they like it or not.

Each to their own, dlss + fg on my 3080 with path tracing is a far superior experience to my eyes than no dlss and normal RT let alone raster.... Raster does look great in cp 2077 though but alas supposedly "downgraded to make RT better" :cry:

I'd never say that about CP - raster was fine there and that's how I finished it upon release :) Never noticed anything bad about raster in CP. RT initially was a total gimmick, aside few places with reflections, I couldn't see any big difference. Way later they improved a lot and then PT happened. However, some games really looked horribly bad in raster, comparing to RT - devs clearly weren't bothered with all the good old tricks to make raster look good. Fun fact, all sponsored by NVIDIA, which is quite clear what happened there, to me. :P As that was when NVIDIA was pushing RT marketing really hard. It wasn't very common though.

As above, it's pointless to look back at what we had, the industry has moved on and is moving on to another new thing.

Industry follows the money. Always did always will. They can do whatever they want but if it doesn't sell, they will very quickly go back to what sales. Their job is to sell the product and make money and consumer's job is to vote with the wallet. Whatever happens in the future in that regard, will be consumer driven, not industry driven. And this is where we hit consoles - consumers just buy such appliance and do not want to worry about specs or tech. It should just work well. PC is a bit different market but high prices already shrunk it quite a bit. Then again, a bunch of publishers already feel results of their really bad decisions (not RT but generally bad games). I do not believe Betshesda will try to release another "Starfield" for example - they'll either evolve or will be forgotten in the future. EA invested loads of monies into few games that bombed hard too, as people shown them multiple times they won't tolerate monies-sucking practices that kill the gameplay, etc. If at some point people decide enough is enough, no more expensive GPUs, that's where games will stop evolving in graphics till that changes. And the signs of that coming are already visible with generally low sales of expensive GPUs as per beloved by many Steam statistics (and not only) and generally expensive PCs (sales hard down as well for a while now).

Exactly what I have said before. Will come a point where it won't even be mentioned/talked about as has happened with every other implementation of new graphical effects.

Nvidia have already given us what the end goal is going to look like (in their interview with df), where game worlds and graphics are just generated on the fly.
The last bit I don't see happening till we get true AI (which will take potentially hundreds more years). Current ML models are way too primitive to do that well plus governments start to restrict them anyway (partially because of copyright violations but also security). I am not sure if you've seen news but deepfake video calls and voices were used to extract hundreds of millions of USD from actual banks, for example - people use this tech for fraud more and more, which will cause huge backlash from the governments and big restrictions. ML future might not be anywhere as bright as NVIDIA imagines, even if for that reason alone.
 
Damn capitalism :cry:

And how dare companies want to push graphics further.... We should have just stuck with 2d based games.
That is a really silly way to react. Companies don't push anything because they want to push stuff - they try to sale more product and fancier graphics is to be an incentive to sale more, not some expression of devs' desires. If people vote with wallets that this isn't what they want, companies will go back to whatever works in an instant. Business is business, not art, with modern publishers of games. Monies trump all. It worked fine so far, we'll see (as per my other post) what will happen in the future. It can't go forever with how much monies it requires to play such games with intended looks and something will have to give.
 
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I'd never say that about CP - raster was fine there and that's how I finished it upon release :) Never noticed anything bad about raster in CP. RT initially was a total gimmick, aside few places with reflections, I couldn't see any big difference. Way later they improved a lot and then PT happened. However, some games really looked horribly bad in raster, comparing to RT - devs clearly weren't bothered with all the good old tricks to make raster look good. Fun fact, all sponsored by NVIDIA, which is quite clear what happened there, to me. :p As that was when NVIDIA was pushing RT marketing really hard. It wasn't very common though.



Industry follows the money. Always did always will. They can do whatever they want but if it doesn't sell, they will very quickly go back to what sales. Their job is to sell the product and make money and consumer's job is to vote with the wallet. Whatever happens in the future in that regard, will be consumer driven, not industry driven. And this is where we hit consoles - consumers just buy such appliance and do not want to worry about specs or tech. It should just work well. PC is a bit different market but high prices already shrunk it quite a bit. Then again, a bunch of publishers already feel results of their really bad decisions (not RT but generally bad games). I do not believe Betshesda will try to release another "Starfield" for example - they'll either evolve or will be forgotten in the future. EA invested loads of monies into few games that bombed hard too, as people shown them multiple times they won't tolerate monies-sucking practices that kill the gameplay, etc. If at some point people decide enough is enough, no more expensive GPUs, that's where games will stop evolving in graphics till that changes. And the signs of that coming are already visible with generally low sales of expensive GPUs as per beloved by many Steam statistics (and not only) and generally expensive PCs (sales hard down as well for a while now).


The last bit I don't see happening till we get true AI (which will take potentially hundreds more years). Current ML models are way too primitive to do that well plus governments start to restrict them anyway (partially because of copyright violations but also security). I am not sure if you've seen news but deepfake video calls and voices were used to extract hundreds of millions of USD from actual banks, for example - people use this tech for fraud more and more, which will cause huge backlash from the governments and big restrictions. ML future might not be anywhere as bright as NVIDIA imagines, even if for that reason alone.

Yeah I wasn't referring to you but the one further up in the thread ;)

And as we both know, ray tracing saves time and effort thus money and right now in the tech industry, jobs are being cut to reduce costs and this include game Dev industry. Only reason Devs aren't seeing the cost savings is because they are still supporting raster and most products have been in development for too long to properly switch over but don't be surprised if we start seeing more titles like Spiderman 2 and avatar.

Over the last year, our work has been focussing massively on improving workflow times for Devs and reducing cloud costs where possible, this is the most sought after thing right now as again, people are expensive.....

Of course that is a long way of but that's what Nvidia are working towards. Question is will the industry be able to keep up or better yet, someone beat them to the punch.....
 
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That is a really silly way to react. Companies don't push anything because they want to push stuff - they try to sale more product and fancier graphics is to be an incentive to sale more, not some expression of devs' desires. If people vote with wallets that this isn't what they want, companies will go back to whatever works in an instant. Business is business, not art, with modern publishers of games. Monies trump all. It worked fine so far, we'll see (as per my other post) what will happen in the future. It can't go forever with how much monies it requires to play such games with intended looks and something will have to give.

Well yeah isn't that the purpose of every single company in tech? To create a reason to get people to upgrade... These companies aren't charities.

Nvidia etc. customers aren't just gamers but also game developers and other companies involved in the industry like Microsoft. Nvidia wouldn't have just come out of nowhere to say we have ray tracing, this is what you'll be working towards now, kthxbye.

They would have been having conversations with developers and so on long before RT was even released to work out what needed done i.e. most likely using user stories (everything a developer works on has to have a user story tied to it in order to ensure you're meeting the clients requirements/needs) to identify the problems/limitations that developers currently face, what they would want to improve and then it's up to Nvidia, game engine makers and so on to improve the developer experience.

Again, see Spiderman 2, avatar and metro ee, you do not need 4090 levels to have a good playable experience.
 
And as we both know, ray tracing saves time and effort thus money and right now in the tech industry, jobs are being cut to reduce costs and this include game Dev industry. Only reason Devs aren't seeing the cost savings is because they are still supporting raster and most products have been in development for too long to properly switch over but don't be surprised if we start seeing more titles like Spiderman 2 and avatar.

Over the last year, our work has been focussing massively on improving workflow times for Devs and reducing cloud costs where possible, this is the most sought after thing right now as again, people are expensive.....

Of course that is a long way of but that's what Nvidia are working towards. Question is will the industry be able to keep up or better yet, someone beat them to the punch.....
If you focus only on as realistic games as possible sure. But then you look at Palworld for example, created by small indie studio, no RT, no actual initial knowledge of Unreal engine they used (as they came from Unity). They had to make things up as they went, budget was miniscule (I believe $10k only initially) and it outsold a lot of other, WAY WAY more fancier looking and expensive games. In other words, the chase of AAA industry after fancy graphics is not really what a lot of gamers desire anymore. For many, games already look good enough. This might be the way to cut down on cost - not RT, but just make simpler games, as current budgets of AAA games are way too big for what comes out in the end. Maybe they won't need that many devs then and maybe RT won't even be relevant then. It feels like we are (almost) at a crossroads where AAA industry run chasing graphics and left average consumer behind who then starts looking at cheaper solutions (mostly mobile, or indie/smaller games). Because of overblown budgets AAA games themselves rose in prices and many start with £100+ to get anywhere near complete game (£70 being almost "demo" version). In other words, I wouldn't put too much faith in RT to be the way forth for the industry just yet (eventually it will become a real 100% thing but that might be many many years in the future) and generally AAA industry, as they might hit a cost wall way before that.
 
If you focus only on as realistic games as possible sure. But then you look at Palworld for example, created by small indie studio, no RT, no actual initial knowledge of Unreal engine they used (as they came from Unity). They had to make things up as they went, budget was miniscule (I believe $10k only initially) and it outsold a lot of other, WAY WAY more fancier looking and expensive games. In other words, the chase of AAA industry after fancy graphics is not really what a lot of gamers desire anymore. For many, games already look good enough. This might be the way to cut down on cost - not RT, but just make simpler games, as current budgets of AAA games are way too big for what comes out in the end. Maybe they won't need that many devs then and maybe RT won't even be relevant then. It feels like we are (almost) at a crossroads where AAA industry run chasing graphics and left average consumer behind who then starts looking at cheaper solutions (mostly mobile, or indie/smaller games). Because of overblown budgets AAA games themselves rose in prices and many start with £100+ to get anywhere near complete game (£70 being almost "demo" version). In other words, I wouldn't put too much faith in RT to be the way forth for the industry just yet (eventually it will become a real 100% thing but that might be many many years in the future) and generally AAA industry, as they might hit a cost wall way before that.

Why does RT always have to be realistic visuals? We have cartoony games using RT which still retain their artistic style.

Palworld is on UE 5 and modders have been able to enable RT:


Palworld core success is down to it being a pokemon rip of game set in survival genre, without the pokemon theme, it wouldn't have been anywhere as successful.

Again, as we have discussed this before, why are are you putting visuals and gameplay into one category as if we have to choose between the 2? They are completely different things and of course gameplay is more important.... but you can have good graphics to enhance/improve the experience e.g. I played CP 2077 first time on my vega 56 without RT, was still a great game but on the 3080 being able to put on RT made the experience even more enjoyable.
 
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Well yeah isn't that the purpose of every single company in tech? To create a reason to get people to upgrade... These companies aren't charities.

Nvidia etc. customers aren't just gamers but also game developers and other companies involved in the industry like Microsoft. Nvidia wouldn't have just come out of nowhere to say we have ray tracing, this is what you'll be working towards now, kthxbye.

And none of the asked "How much will it cost the consumer?" and then we look at the stats and majority of GPUs out there still do not support RT, because majority of gamers do not care for that pricing. It will have to get much cheaper than it is now - which NVIDIA doesn't want to do (their own CEO said current GPUs are too cheap, when talking about 4000 series release, which backfired as we see today). :) As I said, something will have to give - either games will run well on cheap hardware and look well enough or GPUs to run such games will have to get cheaper.

Again, see Spiderman 2, avatar and metro ee, you do not need 4090 levels to have a good playable experience.
They also do not work on 1060 and 1660Ti, the most popular GPUs on Steam. And it seems owner of said GPUs don't care enough to upgrade - though their GPUs will die eventually, so some upgrade will be a must. Unless they just go for mobile gaming and ignore PC for that all together.
 
And none of the asked "How much will it cost the consumer?" and then we look at the stats and majority of GPUs out there still do not support RT, because majority of gamers do not care for that pricing. It will have to get much cheaper than it is now - which NVIDIA doesn't want to do (their own CEO said current GPUs are too cheap, when talking about 4000 series release, which backfired as we see today). :) As I said, something will have to give - either games will run well on cheap hardware and look well enough or GPUs to run such games will have to get cheaper.


They also do not work on 1060 and 1660Ti, the most popular GPUs on Steam. And it seems owner of said GPUs don't care enough to upgrade - though their GPUs will die eventually, so some upgrade will be a must. Unless they just go for mobile gaming and ignore PC for that all together.

Or we just see more spiderman 2 and avatar style of games? And more levels of RT to provide various levels of perf. and perhaps eventually a better upscaler and frame gen on the likes of the xbx and ps 5 to allow devs to push graphics up whilst retaining 60 fps? Ubisoft have already said they are moving their games onto the snowdrop engine because of how good it is. More games will be moving towards UE 5 and so on, game engines evolve and naturally so will the games which are created on them.

How long do you expect devs to be supporting a 7+ year old gpu for?
 
The problem is that the RT hype squad put forward their opinions as if they are valid counters to actual facts.

They hand wave away the awkward truths with nonsensical vacuous sound bites like “RT is the future”. Or “it makes life easy for developers”.
 
The problem is that the RT hype squad put forward their opinions as if they are valid counters to actual facts.

They hand wave away the awkward truths with nonsensical vacuous sound bites like “RT is the future”. Or “it makes life easy for developers”.

What facts? So far you have insinuated that we need silly levels of hardware i.e. 4090s to play RT yet you conveniently ignore avatar, spiderman 2 and metro ee......

Haven't seen you debunking any of the devs statements where they have stated how it speeds up their workflows, saves time and money for them, makes things simpler, allows them to create more dynamic environments and provide better interaction within the game world.

Until you can post anything to debunk the above and provide something substantial other than "but but but most games released are still purely raster with no rt" and so on, your take on this subject is merely just nonsensical vacuous sound bites and nothing more.
 
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The problem is that the RT hype squad put forward their opinions as if they are valid counters to actual facts.

They hand wave away the awkward truths with nonsensical vacuous sound bites like “RT is the future”. Or “it makes life easy for developers”.
No amount of cheerleading will change perception since RT in its current form is used for increasing IQ cost and the cost outweighs demand.

Until the GPU price setter reduces the buy in cost and or the performance penalty, it'll remain as it is-mostly bolted on as an afterthought.
 
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What facts? So far you have insinuated that we need silly levels of hardware i.e. 4090s to play RT yet you conveniently ignore avatar, spiderman 2 and metro ee......

Haven't seen you debunking any of the devs statements where they have stated how it speeds up their workflows, saves time and money for them, makes things simpler, allows them to create more dynamic environments and provide better interaction within the game world.

Until you can post anything to debunk the above and provide something substantial other than "but but but most games released are still purely raster with no rt" and so on, your take on this subject is merely just nonsensical vacuous sound bites and nothing more.

There seems to be 2 major camps of people when discussing RT. Those who knew about the tech before nvidia presented it and understood what it meant for the industry to get it running in real-time, and then those who had no idea what it was and have only taken nvidias word on it at face value. I can empathise with the latter camp having no love it for it and thinking it's a gimmick. But I bet every single one of them at some point said they wish they could play a game that looks like a Pixar movie one day... and when given the route to it they laugh it off and play it down as marketing...
 
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Why does RT always have to be realistic visuals? We have cartoony games using RT which still retain their artistic style.

It doesn't but that is where it's mostly being used for currently. If you go for cartoon looks RT only helps devs, changes nothing much for consumers. Example, failed experiments with RT in World of Warcraft, which just makes things look worse in many places, kills FPS and generally is a bad idea there - whole game would have to be redone from scratch with proper lighting setup for RT to work at all in it. As is now, most lights in the game aren't even real light sources, shadows are being generated by invisible to player light sources and whole experience is just awful visually because nothing make sense to human brain like that.

Palworld is on UE 5 and modders have been able to enable RT:

It's been mentioned earlier in this topic, seems to not be making any positive impression on gamers, especially that looking at comments for that mod, it doesn't work that great (both performance issues even with DLSS and also issues with lights popping in and out of existence as game has not been designed with RT in mind etc.). That something can be done, doesn't mean it will work well.

Palworld core success is down to it being a pokemon rip of game set in survival genre, without the pokemon theme, it wouldn't have been anywhere as successful.

You just described whole gaming industry - almost every single game out there is a "rip off" (with some changes) of another game. Why do you think terms like "Rogue-like" or "WoW clone" or many other of such kind exist? That is how humanity's creativity works with everything - people take something that exists, improve upon it and release as a new thing. That said, neither Nintendo nor Pokemon company really think it's a rip-off, as per their official posts (in both cases they admitted they're aware this game exist and asked fans to stop emailing them). No lawsuits were filled. Argument invalid.

Again, as we have discussed this before, why are are you putting visuals and gameplay into one category as if we have to choose between the 2? They are completely different things and of course gameplay is more important.... but you can have good graphics to enhance/improve the experience e.g. I played CP 2077 first time on my vega 56 without RT, was still a great game but on the 3080 being able to put on RT made the experience even more enjoyable.

CP initially was a horrible rushed mess that shouldn't have been released for at least 1-2 more years. But it had already pretty graphics, just bad gameplay with bugs all over, etc. As a good example why I connect these 2 - a lot of publishers put graphics above gameplay, as the low hanging fruit, easy to achieve, looking good on adverts. On the other hand, gamers seem to not care as much for the graphics as they care for the gameplay. That we should have these 2 things as independent doesn't change the fact that often one is put way above the other, as in "It's pretty enough, why bother working on gameplay, release and next game!" (as likely a lot of publishers said on internal meetings). Or in other words, if game doesn't have good graphics, gameplay is the only thing defending the product (like a lot of the times in the past or on weaker hardware like Switch etc.), but if game can put most of the budget into graphics and ignbore actual gameplay (as both would cost too much to develop equally well), then we get pretty but bad games. It's a common enough disconnect between what publishers think will sale and what gamers actually want to buy.
 
Or we just see more spiderman 2 and avatar style of games? And more levels of RT to provide various levels of perf. and perhaps eventually a better upscaler and frame gen on the likes of the xbx and ps 5 to allow devs to push graphics up whilst retaining 60 fps? Ubisoft have already said they are moving their games onto the snowdrop engine because of how good it is. More games will be moving towards UE 5 and so on, game engines evolve and naturally so will the games which are created on them.

FG have issues as is already (both quality and latency) and you need min. 60 FPS for them to work properly. Consoles as is often can't even get to 60 with upscaling as is, so this will not help. And if they can, RT doesn't look great. To get to that level you need more powerful hardware, not just "crutches" - and that takes time and loads of R&D. 5k series will be indicative what NVIDIA (the whole modern RT in games is mostly their R&D) is able to do further with things - can they push more acceleration of rays into the GPU, or will still relay on the CPU for a big chunk of these calculations etc. However, in the end NVIDIA doesn't produce chips for consoles currently, hence whatever they do is limited mostly to expensive PCs. Outside of the PC market gamers get what they get in console and mobile chips - RT is nice on adverts on such hardware but in practice works rather badly.

How long do you expect devs to be supporting a 7+ year old gpu for?
As long as it pays their bills really. Again - they only follow the money, everything else is really meaningless. If all GPU died today and only RT ones would work, they would instantly switch to that. If the opposite happened and only simple raster would be available, you would only see games with that. There's nothing else to it, aside what brings monies.
 
There seems to be 2 major camps of people when discussing RT. Those who knew about the tech before nvidia presented it and understood what it meant for the industry to get it running in real-time, and then those who had no idea what it was and have only taken nvidias word on it at face value. I can empathise with the latter camp having no love it for it and thinking it's a gimmick. But I bet every single one of them at some point said they wish they could play a game that looks like a Pixar movie one day... and when given the route to it they laugh it off and play it down as marketing...
I don't agree with that. I've had played games on release that dropped my jaw in the past, hell even 3D Mark 2001 did with shaders scene - in my mind back then it literally was "Best graphics ever, I can't even imagine it getting any better anymore!" - and yet, each year after it always became better. Point is, graphics quality is a subjective thing for gamers and a lot of the times they simply don't need anything better anymore, hence RT might seem like a gimmick (till it's just there and not even noticeable anymore), as they really don't need it and often can't run it properly. When one treats games as a pure entertainment and not main thing in life, it's largely irrelevant - all they want is a cheap PC and some fun. Enthusiasts expect more, but it's a tiny minority of the market. Personally I love technology and graphics, but as long as it's expensive enthusiast only thing, it might as well be a gimmick for the average gamer with xx60 card (especially not even supporting RTX).
 
Please show me a $300 GPU that can play 1080/60/max setting with RT.
Until then, RT belongs to the same place as fusion power...

What kind of RT are you insinuating here? If path tracing like aw 2 and cp 2077, of course going to be hard but if something avatar, spiderman 2, metro ee.... well consoles are running them with no fallback to raster only.... If consoles couldn't do RT then of course it wouldn't go anywhere.

It doesn't but that is where it's mostly being used for currently. If you go for cartoon looks RT only helps devs, changes nothing much for consumers. Example, failed experiments with RT in World of Warcraft, which just makes things look worse in many places, kills FPS and generally is a bad idea there - whole game would have to be redone from scratch with proper lighting setup for RT to work at all in it. As is now, most lights in the game aren't even real light sources, shadows are being generated by invisible to player light sources and whole experience is just awful visually because nothing make sense to human brain like that.



It's been mentioned earlier in this topic, seems to not be making any positive impression on gamers, especially that looking at comments for that mod, it doesn't work that great (both performance issues even with DLSS and also issues with lights popping in and out of existence as game has not been designed with RT in mind etc.). That something can be done, doesn't mean it will work well.



You just described whole gaming industry - almost every single game out there is a "rip off" (with some changes) of another game. Why do you think terms like "Rogue-like" or "WoW clone" or many other of such kind exist? That is how humanity's creativity works with everything - people take something that exists, improve upon it and release as a new thing. That said, neither Nintendo nor Pokemon company really think it's a rip-off, as per their official posts (in both cases they admitted they're aware this game exist and asked fans to stop emailing them). No lawsuits were filled. Argument invalid.



CP initially was a horrible rushed mess that shouldn't have been released for at least 1-2 more years. But it had already pretty graphics, just bad gameplay with bugs all over, etc. As a good example why I connect these 2 - a lot of publishers put graphics above gameplay, as the low hanging fruit, easy to achieve, looking good on adverts. On the other hand, gamers seem to not care as much for the graphics as they care for the gameplay. That we should have these 2 things as independent doesn't change the fact that often one is put way above the other, as in "It's pretty enough, why bother working on gameplay, release and next game!" (as likely a lot of publishers said on internal meetings). Or in other words, if game doesn't have good graphics, gameplay is the only thing defending the product (like a lot of the times in the past or on weaker hardware like Switch etc.), but if game can put most of the budget into graphics and ignbore actual gameplay (as both would cost too much to develop equally well), then we get pretty but bad games. It's a common enough disconnect between what publishers think will sale and what gamers actually want to buy.

WOW was and still is to my knowledge regarded as being one of the worst games for RT implementation, I only recall of the shadows being implemented but maybe more was added later on? I never played it so can't comment on it.

Been using the mod myself for palworld and it's working just fine, haven't noticed any issues and it has in fact got rid of the artifacts associated with SSR i.e. the halo'ing around objects when in front of pools of water. Shadows are more defined and so on. Unfortunately I have to use TSR since dlss is not available on the gamepass version but it looks better than native taa and no rt (no taa and the grass has awful aliasing/jaggies), fps is about 55-80 depending on location and time of day. The game itself is incredibly buggy though so again, even if there are problems for other people, it's not just a RT specific problem.

In your previous posts, you have been insinuating that games with fancy graphics don't do well then used palworld as an example for this, I merely just pointed out that graphics have very little to do with how well a game will do and the 2 should not be compared as they are different things and also worked on by different teams/developers.

That may be true, style over substance and it could very well mean more money/budget is put towards the visual presentation, it's the same in my work with products, the frontend and UI is always in the spot light but not so much what happens in the backend, at the same time, user experience is vital thus if games aren't being succesful on this front then they won't do well regardless of their visuals. Again, RT or raster does not and should not be compared to gameplay experience, 2 completely different things, having said that, RT could and will allow devs to perhaps make more interactive worlds i.e. better destruction for example by devs not having to worry about how lighting, shadows and so on will look if certain walls/buildings get destroyed.

FG have issues as is already (both quality and latency) and you need min. 60 FPS for them to work properly. Consoles as is often can't even get to 60 with upscaling as is, so this will not help. And if they can, RT doesn't look great. To get to that level you need more powerful hardware, not just "crutches" - and that takes time and loads of R&D. 5k series will be indicative what NVIDIA (the whole modern RT in games is mostly their R&D) is able to do further with things - can they push more acceleration of rays into the GPU, or will still relay on the CPU for a big chunk of these calculations etc. However, in the end NVIDIA doesn't produce chips for consoles currently, hence whatever they do is limited mostly to expensive PCs. Outside of the PC market gamers get what they get in console and mobile chips - RT is nice on adverts on such hardware but in practice works rather badly.


As long as it pays their bills really. Again - they only follow the money, everything else is really meaningless. If all GPU died today and only RT ones would work, they would instantly switch to that. If the opposite happened and only simple raster would be available, you would only see games with that. There's nothing else to it, aside what brings monies.

It actually depends on the game I find but yes generally 60 fps is the rule before enabling 60 fps. Even though ark and cp 2077 base fps is below 60 on my end, they still look and feel and play far better with FG than no FG, are there some artifacts and is there an increase in latency, absolutely yes but is the overall experience better in terms of actually being playable and having better motion clarity and fluidity? Absolutely it is.

As we also discussed before, it's wrong to assume that the only way to increase RT perf is through better hardware, as shown before, there are ways to improve performance with better optimisation and coming up with ways to cut corners, just read the documentation by nvidia, amd, intel and unreal engine, they have several documents and tools to provide guidance on where and what to do in order to get better performance (but sadly, optimisation is always the last thing to get looked at, if at all... getting a product to mvp and out the door is the most important thing). Raster had how many years for devs to learn to get the best from it, either by optimising or cutting corners? We're still arguably at the tip of the iceberg for RT and what can be done.

You can't keep supporting outdated tech... Heck, even a ps 5 and xbx is considerably better than a 1060.
 
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Did you just really compare entertainment product (not necessary in life at all) with something (for many people) essential that is actually used for example as a day to day tool to get to work or do business, etc?
I read it more like, he was making a joke comparison on the price of these two items. AFAIK there is no good/versatile electric car that can be had for £10k new and there are no GPUs that can run RT properly for £300 new.
 
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