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What do gamers actually think about Ray-Tracing?

Soldato
Joined
14 Aug 2009
Posts
2,788
The 4090 is enough for ray tracing at up to 4K. This is proven by... every game (that isn't a poor PC release) with RT on a 4090. Frame Gen is not needed either here.

It is not enough for path tracing at 4K as the baseline pre-frame gen fps is too low to make a higher than 60fps experience not feel like there is mouse latency at this res. At 1440p or ultrawide 3440x1440 though a 4090 is more than enough for path tracing at with all bells and whistles turned on and get over a low latency 100fps+ with Frame Gen enabled.

Does the 4090 not offer 4k@60 with DLSS performance in CB? With 4080 it goes to around 50 or higher 40 in regular gameplay without frame gen. For ultra perf goes into 70-80+ and it looks surprisingly good - perhaps because i have a native 1080p screen and 4k is downsampled...

The above is for PT, of course.
 
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Man of Honour
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
100,351
Location
South Coast
Does the 4090 not offer 4k@60 with DLSS performance in CB? With 4080 it goes to around 50 or higher 40 in regular gameplay without frame gen. For ultra perf goes into 70-80+ and it looks surprisingly good - perhaps because i have a native 1080p screen and 4k is downsampled...

The above is for PT, of course.
That's a good question actually, never really ventured into ultra performance because of past experience with it being really poor so had no reason to check it out since.

I gave it a try just now and actually it's very very impressive at Ultra Performance. In Performance the fps is 60+ but the render/input latency is massively obvious so that's a no-go when path tracing at 4k res.

In Ultra Performance there is just some slight temporal fizzle on things like hair/beards when you look for it, but otherwise at 5160x2160 path traced with DLSS Ultra Performance without Frame Gen I can get 85fps, with Frame Gen enabled that increases to ~125fps and it looks very good. The only thing is that whilst the framerate is higher than 3440x1440 DLSS Quality, I can tell that the input latency is still a bit higher at 5160x2160 DLSS Ultra Performance but nothing too distracting that you would not get used to I think.

There is zero image quality difference when static or in motion with Frame Gen on vs off. I am using DLSS dll 3.6, and Ray reconstruction dll 3.7. Frame Gen dll remains 3.5.10.

There is noticeable sharpening filter halos when pixel peeping the Ultra Performance image, look at the blue doors in the background, the door numbers are the most obvious. Ultra Perf also has detail loss on the vertical pattern on those same doors that are visible on the Quality screenshot, although again, have to pixel peep to notice it.

L6fZAK1.jpg


IMGslider: https://imgsli.com/MjUwNTQx/0/2

I put in the 3440x1440 one in there too just for a rough guide but I did not rescale it so when you zoom in comparing against the 5160 slides, the scaling is done by the website which appears to be nearest neighbour so you will get more stair stepping , so only use that as a guide for reference detail.

In person the 3440x1440 DLSS Quality FG On, the performance is more responsive at ~108fps vs 5160x2160 DLSS Ultra Performance FG On which gets 120+ fps due to the difference in PC render/input latency. The input latency is reduced greatly if I turn off Frame Gen at 5160x2160, but that then reduces the framerate to about 80-85fps which is noticeably less smooth in camera motion than with it on, but the upshot is input latency is eliminated. This is a trade-off some may opt to make if they must have 4K.

Personally I will stick to 3440x1440 DLSS Quality FG On as that hits the sweet spot for input latency, framerate and image quality.

Some 5160x2160 screens to see the LoD up close:

CGbuaDR.jpg
KPzLFNU.jpg


VjUX2db.jpg
 
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Soldato
Joined
14 Aug 2009
Posts
2,788
That's a good question actually, never really ventured into ultra performance because of past experience with it being really poor so had no reason to check it out since.

I gave it a try just now and actually it's very very impressive at Ultra Performance. In Performance the fps is 60+ but the render/input latency is massively obvious so that's a no-go when path tracing at 4k res.

In Ultra Performance there is just some slight temporal fizzle on things like hair/beards when you look for it, but otherwise at 5160x2160 path traced with DLSS Ultra Performance without Frame Gen I can get 85fps, with Frame Gen enabled that increases to ~125fps and it looks very good. The only thing is that whilst the framerate is higher than 3440x1440 DLSS Quality, I can tell that the input latency is still a bit higher at 5160x2160 DLSS Ultra Performance but nothing too distracting that you would not get used to I think.

There is zero image quality difference when static or in motion with Frame Gen on vs off. I am using DLSS dll 3.6, and Ray reconstruction dll 3.7. Frame Gen dll remains 3.5.10.

There is noticeable sharpening filter halos when pixel peeping the Ultra Performance image, look at the blue doors in the background, the door numbers are the most obvious. Ultra Perf also has detail loss on the vertical pattern on those same doors that are visible on the Quality screenshot, although again, have to pixel peep to notice it.

L6fZAK1.jpg


IMGslider: https://imgsli.com/MjUwNTQx/0/2

I put in the 3440x1440 one in there too just for a rough guide but I did not rescale it so when you zoom in comparing against the 5160 slides, the scaling is done by the website which appears to be nearest neighbour so you will get more stair stepping , so only use that as a guide for reference detail.

In person the 3440x1440 DLSS Quality FG On, the performance is more responsive at ~108fps vs 5160x2160 DLSS Ultra Performance FG On which gets 120+ fps due to the difference in PC render/input latency. The input latency is reduced greatly if I turn off Frame Gen at 5160x2160, but that then reduces the framerate to about 80-85fps which is noticeably less smooth in camera motion than with it on, but the upshot is input latency is eliminated. This is a trade-off some may opt to make if they must have 4K.

Personally I will stick to 3440x1440 DLSS Quality FG On as that hits the sweet spot for input latency, framerate and image quality.

Some 5160x2160 screens to see the LoD up close:

CGbuaDR.jpg
KPzLFNU.jpg


VjUX2db.jpg

Downsampling tends to add lag, especially as you go to a significantly higher resolution - at least that is my experience. 4k downsampled to 1080p feels a bit laggier even with raster and high fps. Going from 1080p high fps to 5760x1080 native resolution (3x1080p), around the same high fps feels about the same.

Anyway, kept playing some more with ultra performance. It would be nice to add an intermediate setting, "balanced performance" or something, to keep more of the IQ while gaining a little bit more performance from ... Performance. :p

1080p ultra performance could be playable, but not really ideal. From 1440p upwards seems pretty good! Sure, there are a bits of "bugs" here and there, but to me are way less distracting that raster.

2160p is life :D

Well... high DPI is nice, but wider FoV is nicer! :))
 
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Associate
Joined
10 Sep 2022
Posts
712
Location
essex
That's a good question actually, never really ventured into ultra performance because of past experience with it being really poor so had no reason to check it out since.

I gave it a try just now and actually it's very very impressive at Ultra Performance. In Performance the fps is 60+ but the render/input latency is massively obvious so that's a no-go when path tracing at 4k res.

In Ultra Performance there is just some slight temporal fizzle on things like hair/beards when you look for it, but otherwise at 5160x2160 path traced with DLSS Ultra Performance without Frame Gen I can get 85fps, with Frame Gen enabled that increases to ~125fps and it looks very good. The only thing is that whilst the framerate is higher than 3440x1440 DLSS Quality, I can tell that the input latency is still a bit higher at 5160x2160 DLSS Ultra Performance but nothing too distracting that you would not get used to I think.

There is zero image quality difference when static or in motion with Frame Gen on vs off. I am using DLSS dll 3.6, and Ray reconstruction dll 3.7. Frame Gen dll remains 3.5.10.

There is noticeable sharpening filter halos when pixel peeping the Ultra Performance image, look at the blue doors in the background, the door numbers are the most obvious. Ultra Perf also has detail loss on the vertical pattern on those same doors that are visible on the Quality screenshot, although again, have to pixel peep to notice it.

L6fZAK1.jpg


IMGslider: https://imgsli.com/MjUwNTQx/0/2

I put in the 3440x1440 one in there too just for a rough guide but I did not rescale it so when you zoom in comparing against the 5160 slides, the scaling is done by the website which appears to be nearest neighbour so you will get more stair stepping , so only use that as a guide for reference detail.

In person the 3440x1440 DLSS Quality FG On, the performance is more responsive at ~108fps vs 5160x2160 DLSS Ultra Performance FG On which gets 120+ fps due to the difference in PC render/input latency. The input latency is reduced greatly if I turn off Frame Gen at 5160x2160, but that then reduces the framerate to about 80-85fps which is noticeably less smooth in camera motion than with it on, but the upshot is input latency is eliminated. This is a trade-off some may opt to make if they must have 4K.

Personally I will stick to 3440x1440 DLSS Quality FG On as that hits the sweet spot for input latency, framerate and image quality.

Some 5160x2160 screens to see the LoD up close:

CGbuaDR.jpg
KPzLFNU.jpg


VjUX2db.jpg

Is that a game? If so what game?
 
Man of Honour
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
100,351
Location
South Coast
Cyberpunk indeed! This is what happens when you have a game with such a density of characters/story, but just as important is the continuation of updates visually and the mods. I'd have mostly been done with it in the first playthrough as I 100% the map back then if there were no further updates or the DLC. Also the GFX were mostly unmatched then, they remain unmatched today :p
 

TNA

TNA

Caporegime
Joined
13 Mar 2008
Posts
27,585
Location
Greater London
Cyberpunk indeed! This is what happens when you have a game with such a density of characters/story, but just as important is the continuation of updates visually and the mods. I'd have mostly been done with it in the first playthrough as I 100% the map back then if there were no further updates or the DLC. Also the GFX were mostly unmatched then, they remain unmatched today :p

You don't even have 100% achievements. Your dedication is weak I say! :p
 
Soldato
Joined
9 Nov 2009
Posts
24,846
Location
Planet Earth
Cyberpunk indeed! This is what happens when you have a game with such a density of characters/story, but just as important is the continuation of updates visually and the mods. I'd have mostly been done with it in the first playthrough as I 100% the map back then if there were no further updates or the DLC. Also the GFX were mostly unmatched then, they remain unmatched today :p
No wonder it took 4 years to almost finish it. Your character is probably the biggest tourist ever.

"V - we need to save the world!"
"Wait a second - need to take another picture"
"But V we have only 10 seconds left!"
"Wait,hold onto your horses - I see a really shiny puddle.....!"
"MacGruber!"

Although I jest,I also took a few in the game! :o

You don't even have 100% achievements. Your dedication is weak I say!
:p

Needs a new achievement - Screenshot Magnet.
 
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