What electric cars are actually available in the UK . . .

[b0rn2sk8]

Honda E doesn’t have reasonable range, especially for how much it costs.

Frankly, many cars are chosen to project an "image" (i.e. as status symbols).

This 100%. It’s not EV thing, I’d even go as far as saying most premium car purchases.

 

[Fusion]

We're still waiting for the "Killer App" equivalent, aren't we? Model 3 is close, but still not cheap enough for most people. Sure it will arrive in the next 4/5 years. In the meantime, we'll continue to get closer.

 

[jpaul]

(yes this thread could/should have gone into the main ev thread)

EV's, so far, are not that distinctive, or overwhelmingly attractive, for the "image" crowd .... how often do you drive along and think that's an ev,
it is not like the visually distinctive SUV introduction.
moreover it's the reverse sentiment when I see a leaf , the i3, is for me, most distinctive/21st Century design...
well, until I see a polestar 2, in the flesh ... there seem to no journalist test drives, that I can find, so I guess it is not actually availible.

 

[Trifid]

We're still waiting for the "Killer App" equivalent, aren't we? Model 3 is close, but still not cheap enough for most people. Sure it will arrive in the next 4/5 years. In the meantime, we'll continue to get closer.

I agree it is close, but not 100% there. I think the looks are a little awkward (nothing I can get past) but the Tesla monthlies need to be closer to a typical family saloon for many to commit.

 

[Journey]

I agree it is close, but not 100% there. I think the looks are a little awkward (nothing I can get past) but the Tesla monthlies need to be closer to a typical family saloon for many to commit.

If only most people included the fuel cost in the monthlies, it makes a huge difference.

 

[gailjon]

VW ID3 might be the 'killer app' for a lot of people. If you can walk into a showroom and buy a Golf that happens to be electric (yes, I know it's not a 'real' Golf, but you know what I mean), then the fact that it is electric almost becomes secondary.

My issue is the lack of large family electric cars that are vaguely affordable. I have a Q7 because I need seven seats and like large cars, but a Model X is the only electric equivalent and it's price is prohibitive.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Have they confirmed final pricing for the version of the ID3 actually going on sale?

I’ve seen pricing range from £25000 through to >£45000.

Few comments to say the ‘entry level’ 1st edition to be around £36000, I assume the amount people will generally pay will be more than this as there is little incentive to build ‘entry level’ trim versions of EVs right now given many are sold out.

 

[Journey]

Have they confirmed final pricing for the version of the ID3 actually going on sale?

Nope VW are being useless, family member wanted one so put a deposit down, and the goal posts have moved, and moved again with no information supplied, they've now had the deposit back and have a Tesla Model 3 on order.

It's really annoying when a company like VW can't just give pricing, especially this close to launch, I know they tried to sign UK dealers up to a agency/retailer model which didn't go down to well, and was later withdrawn.

 

[jpaul]

medium term, had looked like vw will change dealer model,
in addition to covid, with uncertainty over brexit deal, it's got to be difficult deciding on prices too, and, projecting forward currency deals.
How are Bmw/audi addressing that - helped by franchise setup ?


https://www.auto-retail.co.uk/agenda/vw-first-with-agency-agreement-for-retail-sales/

A UK spokesman originally said: “We are looking at going the same route. It makes life a lot easier when leasing and selling online, plus knowing who the customer belongs to.”

However, this was then updated to: “In the UK we will not be launching the ID3 with an agency model.”

Agency agreements mean the manufacturer can control the price of the vehicle and advertise a national price, simplifying the online sales process.

A VW spokesman in Germany said: “The sales launch of the ID3 marks the start of the agency model for private customers and small commercial enterprises that has already proven its worth for major [fleet] customers over many years.

Spoiler: also ...

In concrete terms, this means that Volkswagen will become the direct contractual partner of their customers, while the dealers will broker sales of the ID. family to private customers and small commercial customers “only” as agents, which primarily includes acquisition, consulting, completion of test drives, handling of the business and delivery in coordination with Volkswagen. In return, the dealer receives a commission and bonus similar to the stationary business – even if the vehicle is purchased online. “At the same time, the dealer is relieved of the burden of financing the vehicle and the sales process is simplified by the elimination of price negotiations,” explains Volkswagen.

“The agency contract for the ID. family is another important milestone in the future orientation of our sales model,” says Holger B. Santel, Volkswagen’s Head of Sales and Marketing in Germany. “For the first time, we will be the customer’s direct contractual partner, while their familiar Volkswagen partner remains involved in the process as the agent. This partner can focus primarily on its role as a customer consultant and we also reduce the financial burden. The concept takes account of the shift in customer expectations towards a seamless buying experience between the online and offline worlds.”

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Looks like they are trying to take a leaf out of Tesla’s playbook and using the transition to electric to take the opportunity to shift the business model.

There is clear opportunities to make the business more agile, improve customers experiences (e.g. direct online sales) and increased pricing transparency (e.g. by removing inflated rrps and fake discounts). But it will remove the inter brand brand competition (e.g. vw dealer against vw dealer).

 

[Journey]

But it will remove the inter brand brand competition (e.g. vw dealer against vw dealer).

Which will be interesting when the whole fleet is BEV and they no longer need dealers anymore. That is what is feared, lack of competition meaning higher overall process for the consumer.

I really like the model Tesla use, but I think UK dealerships will end up wanting some protection from being made redundant or just ending up as service centres and test drive locations.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

There would be competition between brands and I’m not really sure the completion between dealers is really that strong. Most people don’t shop around and just go to their local.

The manufacturer would still need face to face sales staff, it would make the most sense to take the existing dealers in house but that is never going to happen because of the costs of buying out all the franchise dealers networks would involve an incredible amount of money. It could harm those manufacturers in the long term if they can’t agree to change the business model over the long term. IMO of course.

 

[stockhausen]

. . . I think UK dealerships will end up wanting some protection from being made redundant or just ending up as service centres and test drive locations.

I suspect that that is going to happen; for the life of me I can't see what other value dealerships offer to either purchasers -or- manufacturers . . . perhaps finance options

 

[Haggisman]

If only most people included the fuel cost in the monthlies, it makes a huge difference.

This really.

I can't find a HP quote for a Clio on the Renault site, but for a 5 year loan at 3% for £17k, (for the iconic which is roughly equivalent in spec to my Zoe) is £305.16/month. Just for the car.

For my mileage, add on another ~£150 for fuel, so ~£450/month. For comparison, I'm paying £356 for the Zoe, and ~£15 in electricity, so £370. Yes the purchase cost (and by extension monthlies) can be significantly higher, but the fuel savings can also be significant (obviously depending on your mileage, where you can charge, etc.).

I notice there is talk of a £6k scrappage scheme - doesn't really seem the right way to do it to me, it's getting to the point where there are enough decent range low(er) priced 2nd hand EVs that they are becoming affordable to many more people (when taking into account the fuel savings) - e.g. I was looking at a 3 year old 30kw Leaf with less than 20k miles before getting the Zoe, and over 3 years the monthly payments were basically equivalent to the fuel + VED savings compared to my current 10 year old petrol car - it would have essentially cost me nothing.

In my opinion, this money should go to infrastructure instead - it doesn't matter how cheap you make the cars if people don't want them because there is nowhere to charge. 4-5+ reliable chargers at every motorway services would make a world of difference. Charging "stations" in areas where there aren't many public chargers (SW Wales, I'm looking at you here!), on-street charging (e.g. the lampost fitted ones) on roads without driveways across the country rather than a couple of rich London boroughs. Building an infrastructure which people can trust and rely on, making charging as convenient as filling up with petrol (even if it does take a bit longer) will (again, IMO) make far more difference than making new cars slightly more affordable to people who were already considering a new/nearly new car anyway.

 

[jpaul]

um - People don't forget the fuel saving ... as we discussed in the 'when going electric thread' , and as @Trifid implied, when you, put the depreciation, additional purchase price into the mix, costs can, currently, be very similar per mile, to ICE.

Increasingly, I think it is not coincidental that there are so few aids on the web to facilitate these calculations, manufacturers do want to sell cars.

Under a company car purchase though the negligible BIK, is what swings it, and does seem an unfair tax, for private purchasers.
not sure if there the same imbalance in France/Germany ... since the gilet jaune protest was born from private individuals complaining about diesel taxes

Spoiler: etc.....other thread

you need to put depreciation in the zoe/civic comparison eg

 

[stockhausen]

. . .
In my opinion, this money should go to infrastructure instead - it doesn't matter how cheap you make the cars if people don't want them because there is nowhere to charge. 4-5+ reliable chargers at every motorway services would make a world of difference. Charging "stations" in areas where there aren't many public chargers (SW Wales, I'm looking at you here!), on-street charging (e.g. the lampost fitted ones) on roads without driveways across the country rather than a couple of rich London boroughs. Building an infrastructure which people can trust and rely on, making charging as convenient as filling up with petrol (even if it does take a bit longer) will (again, IMO) make far more difference than making new cars slightly more affordable to people who were already considering a new/nearly new car anyway.

I think that your observation about the lack of charging points is very important. Petrol stations may be rare in areas with low population density but compared to EV charging points they absence isn't a problem. It doesn't matter how cheap the electricity is, if you can't find it you are stuck.

 

[Haggisman]

I think that your observation about the lack of charging points is very important. Petrol stations may be rare in areas with low population density but compared to EV charging points they absence isn't a problem. It doesn't matter how cheap the electricity is, if you can't find it you are stuck.

Of course, the converse to that is also true - as long as you carry a granny charger - you're never going to be that far from a "charging point" assuming you can find a good Samaritan who'll let you plug in for a couple of hours (obviously this is highly inconvenient to everyone involved and should only be considered as an absolute last resort!!)

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I think that your observation about the lack of charging points is very important. Petrol stations may be rare in areas with low population density but compared to EV charging points they absence isn't a problem. It doesn't matter how cheap the electricity is, if you can't find it you are stuck.

I disagree , you highly likely to have a driveway in a low density area (e.g. the country side). Many small towns already have at least 1 rapid charger and it’s growing rapidly. There are already far more charging points than there are petrol stations and there is relatively low adoption of EVs. Those existing charge points also have relatively low utilisation. There are charging points are everywhere, you just don’t know it because you don’t use them or look for them. Have a look at Zap Map.

The biggest hurdle is actually town and city centres where there are far more cars and street/communal parking is the norm. There are very few practical barriers for adoption in rural areas. Just the usual issues with cost and availability.

 

[stockhausen]

I disagree, you are highly likely to have a driveway in a low density area (e.g. the country side). Many small towns already have at least 1 rapid charger and it’s growing rapidly. There are already far more charging points than there are petrol stations and there is relatively low adoption of EVs. Those existing charge points also have relatively low utilisation. There are charging points everywhere, you just don’t know it because you don’t use them or look for them. Have a look at Zap Map.

The biggest hurdle is actually town and city centres where there are far more cars and street/communal parking is the norm. There are very few practical barriers for adoption in rural areas. Just the usual issues with cost and availability.

Zap-Map is an interesting site, I have looked it.

However, away-from-home there will still be an uncomfortable uncertainty at the moment; I know that will change

 

[Haggisman]

I disagree , you highly likely to have a driveway in a low density area (e.g. the country side). Many small towns already have at least 1 rapid charger and it’s growing rapidly. There are already far more charging points than there are petrol stations and there is relatively low adoption of EVs. Those existing charge points also have relatively low utilisation. There are charging points are everywhere, you just don’t know it because you don’t use them or look for them. Have a look at Zap Map.

The biggest hurdle is actually town and city centres where there are far more cars and street/communal parking is the norm. There are very few practical barriers for adoption in rural areas. Just the usual issues with cost and availability.

My point wasn't so much about charging at home, more about charging whilst en-route/at your destination. Sure houses are more likely to have a driveway in the countryside; the problem is, most of those driveways aren't yours, and the owners aren't going to take too kindly to some random person pulling up and plugging in

Taking long journeys in an EV shouldn't be more difficult than in an ICE, but unfortunately at the moment it might be.

With petrol or diesel, you can run down to 20 miles left in the tank, pull up to any services and there is a 99.999999% chance you will be able to fill up your car - even if it's busy, you're unlikely to have to wait more than 10-15 minutes.

With electric:
The services has to actually have a charging point.
The charging point has to be working.
The charging point has to be available.
The charging point has to not be blocked by an inconsiderate **** in a rep-mobile whose paintwork is about to get scratched to hell by the charging cable when I "carefully" manoeuvre it around to try and reach my car.

Basically you always need a plan B, (or even C), which means charging more often (you can't run down to 20 miles left if the next potential charger is 25 miles away!) and journeys need to be planned more carefully.

For many people, the above issues are (understandably) just not worth dealing with, meaning they don't see an electric car as being feasible. Making the cars a bit cheaper won't change that. Fixing the issues people have with them just might.