What "man jobs" have you done today?

[DB_SamX]

I'm really quite concerned about those images and its not really to do with the external walls being 100 mm thick as from a structural point of view thats ok. Many timber framed houses up in Scotland had that until the insulation values meant it was better to build in 140 mm timbers. I'm more concerned with the weight of the tiles being hung off the timber frame as its that which is pulling your walls apart. Something else that I see is that with the windows they're effectively full width meaning that the panels above and below are only really fixed on three sides which wont help the outward motion caused by the weight in the tiles. Are there any houses along that road that haven't had their windows replaced at all? Are they split in any way? E.g Do they have full height posts between windows which would tie the timber frames to all four sides rather than just the three?

Might be worth seeing if @DB_SamX has any thoughts on your solution as he's an Engineer.

Went up to the new house to investigate the exterior walls which appear to have separated from the house a bit... These are timber cross walls between the main brick walls that separate properties. It appears to be that the full length PVC windows were bolted to the brick and the wooden beams hung off those. This means that the walls above and below the window are only as wide as the PVC frames, about 10cm thick

It seems that when the windows were replaced, no reinforcement was done so the timber and/or window frames were able to sag away from the house. We'll be building stud frames, bolting those to the floor/brick walls, then bolting the saggy walls onto that frame. This way we can add ~10cm insulation and replaster. Then bolt the windows to the brick too, as whoever fitted this floor's windows didn't bother.

The existing walls appear to be 7cm air gap, then about 2cm of rockwool insulation (seriously, one inch!). Then literally felt and exterior wall tiles. Bonkers. On one floor you can actually push the walls and they flex outwards at floor and waist level.

Exterior view of house construction and wall tiles:

Spoiler: House!

Window and lower wall coming adrift 2cm. This needs pulling back in with a rope I think:

Spoiler: Main wall

Upper wall above a window - note air gap between timber and window in third pic, and timber not fixed to walls or ceiling! And also the big hole where we can fit 75mm extra insulation...

Spoiler: Top wall

Bonus pic: Look how clean the under floor cavity is! Looking forward to running LOTS of mains, network and RF cable without cleaning 120 years' worth of fluff, debris and mouse skeletons. Right now each room has a single mains outlet.

Spoiler: Clean cavity!

Firstly, I would have expected the Homebuyer's survey to have made a big deal on this issue, as it's a significant structural defect in my opinion as structural engineer. The surveyor should have referred the issue to an engineer for their specialist advice.

What Derek_W has said is correct; I would have expect vertical timber posts of similar within the mullions of the window for lateral stability. Oddly enough, I have come this issue on a local terraced property near me also. The original windows would had timber framing, but when upgraded to doubleg glazed UPVC 10-20 years ago, the replacemet units didn't include anything the whole elevation just bowed outwards in between floors, but thankfully it wasn't pulling away from the party walls though.

In principle what you are suggesting is fine i.e. build a new internal stud wall and tie the existing facade back to it. In an ideal world, you should get a structural engineer to do the calcs for the strengthening works to ensure it meets Building Regulations Part A, otherwise you're taking liability for it. We don't have info on your mortgage and building insurance, but they may have clauses about such work needed to be done by someone qualified.

 

[psd99]

I'm assuming you just bought that house, firstly congratulations and secondly how on earth did your buyers report not pick something like that up? that looks like a major defect and the person who sold the house will be delighted.

I would be devastated and angry being in your positition but good luck on getting that resolved, I wouldn't see the harm in consulting a structural engineer
might even help you in future when it comes to selling the place

 

[dlockers]

Full admiration for tackling it tho @LuckyBenski. Work it through methodically and at least you know it is sound.

 

[azazl187]

Went up to the new house to investigate the exterior walls which appear to have separated from the house a bit... These are timber cross walls between the main brick walls that separate properties. It appears to be that the full length PVC windows were bolted to the brick and the wooden beams hung off those. This means that the walls above and below the window are only as wide as the PVC frames, about 10cm thick

It seems that when the windows were replaced, no reinforcement was done so the timber and/or window frames were able to sag away from the house. We'll be building stud frames, bolting those to the floor/brick walls, then bolting the saggy walls onto that frame. This way we can add ~10cm insulation and replaster. Then bolt the windows to the brick too, as whoever fitted this floor's windows didn't bother.

The existing walls appear to be 7cm air gap, then about 2cm of rockwool insulation (seriously, one inch!). Then literally felt and exterior wall tiles. Bonkers. On one floor you can actually push the walls and they flex outwards at floor and waist level.

Exterior view of house construction and wall tiles:

Spoiler: House!

Window and lower wall coming adrift 2cm. This needs pulling back in with a rope I think:

Spoiler: Main wall

Upper wall above a window - note air gap between timber and window in third pic, and timber not fixed to walls or ceiling! And also the big hole where we can fit 75mm extra insulation...

Spoiler: Top wall

Bonus pic: Look how clean the under floor cavity is! Looking forward to running LOTS of mains, network and RF cable without cleaning 120 years' worth of fluff, debris and mouse skeletons. Right now each room has a single mains outlet.

Spoiler: Clean cavity!

This is a serious structural integrity issue. You will need 500 quids worth of acro props to hold up the first floor while you do this properly.


I fear you maybe dreaming a bit here on your estimation. Are you in the trade?

 

[DXP55]

The downside to frameless shower cubicles - Mine have plastic edging trims on with blades to stop water going outside of shower and over time they go green even though we blade and dry the shower after every shower. This is the second time I have replaced the trim and what a job cleaning the glass where trim has sat -Needed to scrape the glass to get lime scale off.

If anyone want's to go frameless see if anyone makes them without the edging -The bottom edging of the glass which is sitting on tray is worst as you need to take cubicle apart just to replace two trims. This I won't do but I have cut off the upright bits and sealed bit under the glass with mastic - Seems to work.

 

[theone8181]

The downside to frameless shower cubicles - Mine have plastic edging trims on with blades to stop water going outside of shower and over time they go green even though we blade and dry the shower after every shower. This is the second time I have replaced the trim and what a job cleaning the glass where trim has sat -Needed to scrape the glass to get lime scale off.

If anyone want's to go frameless see if anyone makes them without the edging -The bottom edging of the glass which is sitting on tray is worst as you need to take cubicle apart just to replace two trims. This I won't do but I have cut off the upright bits and sealed bit under the glass with mastic - Seems to work.

Our shower door does that, think it's just water that goes in the UK shaped bit, don't see anyway around it unless you fill it with some sort of adhesive or filler.

 

[LuckyBenski]

Firstly, I would have expected the Homebuyer's survey to have made a big deal on this issue, as it's a significant structural defect in my opinion as structural engineer. The surveyor should have referred the issue to an engineer for their specialist advice.

What Derek_W has said is correct; I would have expect vertical timber posts of similar within the mullions of the window for lateral stability. Oddly enough, I have come this issue on a local terraced property near me also. The original windows would had timber framing, but when upgraded to doubleg glazed UPVC 10-20 years ago, the replacemet units didn't include anything the whole elevation just bowed outwards in between floors, but thankfully it wasn't pulling away from the party walls though.

In principle what you are suggesting is fine i.e. build a new internal stud wall and tie the existing facade back to it. In an ideal world, you should get a structural engineer to do the calcs for the strengthening works to ensure it meets Building Regulations Part A, otherwise you're taking liability for it. We don't have info on your mortgage and building insurance, but they may have clauses about such work needed to be done by someone qualified.

Thanks for the perspective, much appreciated. I read Part A and need to look into the policies from mortgage and insurance, I do recall something about appropriate contractors for works done in my mortgage deed. Obviously been pretty busy between planning house stuff, packing up current house and still at work full time for now so barely had time for forums.

In terms of the work to be done, if it's the stuf I've outlined then that's well within my means. Aside from plastering I've got a history in carpentry and never paid a contractor in my life really. I tend to overspec things and make sure they're rock solid above and beyond the needs, usually. Just how I'm wired. So getting an engineer in to verify the plan isn't ruled out.

Interesting what you say about window uprights - sadly we've had a good look but every other house looks to have replaced with uPVC units. Some have more partitions/smaller panes but I'm not seeing any broad pillars. Will be nice to see if I can ask any neighbours but it's 2 hours' drive away so slow going.

What I'm curious about really, is that this is basically the construction of every house here. They all have original tiling etc so I presume a lot of them have done little or no work internally. So does that mean half the houses are at risk of something shifting, has this affected selling/buying, etc. Bringing the walls up to their original standard (and a bit better) would be the goal. If we were to replace the window units (not ruled out but a bit costly and they're in decent condition) it would be a good opportunity to place a top to bottom reinforcement.

This is a serious structural integrity issue. You will need 500 quids worth of acro props to hold up the first floor while you do this properly.

Curious to know why the floors will fall down because of a wall that was never load-bearing. What am I missing? Very interested in what you mean by properly. Actually no I'm not, I've got a plan and will take the advice of an engineer

 

[{SAS}TB]

With the lighter nights and glorious weather decided to continue with getting the gravel paths down and "finished" path 2

Still loads left....

Going to get it all tamped down, give it another layer at the weekend and then what's left possibly top off the existing gravel bed at the front

 

[dlockers]

What's the strategy for stopping you lose your mind as it continually finds its way onto the grass/paths? Alcohol?

 

[{SAS}TB]

That's what the edging is for

 

[DB_SamX]

Thanks for the perspective, much appreciated. I read Part A and need to look into the policies from mortgage and insurance, I do recall something about appropriate contractors for works done in my mortgage deed. Obviously been pretty busy between planning house stuff, packing up current house and still at work full time for now so barely had time for forums.

In terms of the work to be done, if it's the stuf I've outlined then that's well within my means. Aside from plastering I've got a history in carpentry and never paid a contractor in my life really. I tend to overspec things and make sure they're rock solid above and beyond the needs, usually. Just how I'm wired. So getting an engineer in to verify the plan isn't ruled out.

Interesting what you say about window uprights - sadly we've had a good look but every other house looks to have replaced with uPVC units. Some have more partitions/smaller panes but I'm not seeing any broad pillars. Will be nice to see if I can ask any neighbours but it's 2 hours' drive away so slow going.

What I'm curious about really, is that this is basically the construction of every house here. They all have original tiling etc so I presume a lot of them have done little or no work internally. So does that mean half the houses are at risk of something shifting, has this affected selling/buying, etc. Bringing the walls up to their original standard (and a bit better) would be the goal. If we were to replace the window units (not ruled out but a bit costly and they're in decent condition) it would be a good opportunity to place a top to bottom reinforcement.



Curious to know why the floors will fall down because of a wall that was never load-bearing. What am I missing? Very interested in what you mean by properly. Actually no I'm not, I've got a plan and will take the advice of an engineer

On the last point, if your joists span front to back, then there may be a risk of the joists losing bearing due to the wall bowing. But you said they bow between floors so i assume the joists are actually still tied to the facade. If the joists span between party walls, then no risk to the floor.

Other than asking your neighbours, you could ask the local buikding control office if there's a history of similar issues with other propertiea in your block, but that's potentially opening up a can of worms.

How do you propose to pull the facade back into your new stud wall? I couldn't think of anything that you could screw/wind in from inside.

 

[dlockers]

How do you propose to pull the facade back into your new stud wall? I couldn't think of anything that you could screw/wind in from inside.

That's because you are qualified. An unqualified person can think of many creative ways. I think the OP suggested rope

 

[LuckyBenski]

That's because you are qualified. An unqualified person can think of many creative ways. I think the OP suggested rope

The rope isn't the issue, it's how we fix it onto the existing wall to pull it

Yes was thinking of a block and tackle or similar pulley arrangement braced against the doorframe opposite. And either several eyelets fixed into the timber, or a few sturdy clamps if we can reach to the back edge of the current timber. If you poke the back edge of the timber/poke the thin rockwool layer, you're basically rubbing the felt at the point. It's up against the tiles.

 

[dlockers]

The rope isn't the issue, it's how we fix it onto the existing wall to pull it

Yes was thinking of a block and tackle or similar pulley arrangement braced against the doorframe opposite. And either several eyelets fixed into the timber, or a few sturdy clamps if we can reach to the back edge of the current timber. If you poke the back edge of the timber/poke the thin rockwool layer, you're basically rubbing the felt at the point. It's up against the tiles.

I did a similar thing on my shed where the shiplap had bowed. Worked fine, but I didn't have to live in it.

Did you get a mega discount on the house?

 

[azazl187]

Thanks for the perspective, much appreciated. I read Part A and need to look into the policies from mortgage and insurance, I do recall something about appropriate contractors for works done in my mortgage deed. Obviously been pretty busy between planning house stuff, packing up current house and still at work full time for now so barely had time for forums.

In terms of the work to be done, if it's the stuf I've outlined then that's well within my means. Aside from plastering I've got a history in carpentry and never paid a contractor in my life really. I tend to overspec things and make sure they're rock solid above and beyond the needs, usually. Just how I'm wired. So getting an engineer in to verify the plan isn't ruled out.

Interesting what you say about window uprights - sadly we've had a good look but every other house looks to have replaced with uPVC units. Some have more partitions/smaller panes but I'm not seeing any broad pillars. Will be nice to see if I can ask any neighbours but it's 2 hours' drive away so slow going.

What I'm curious about really, is that this is basically the construction of every house here. They all have original tiling etc so I presume a lot of them have done little or no work internally. So does that mean half the houses are at risk of something shifting, has this affected selling/buying, etc. Bringing the walls up to their original standard (and a bit better) would be the goal. If we were to replace the window units (not ruled out but a bit costly and they're in decent condition) it would be a good opportunity to place a top to bottom reinforcement.



Curious to know why the floors will fall down because of a wall that was never load-bearing. What am I missing? Very interested in what you mean by properly. Actually no I'm not, I've got a plan and will take the advice of an engineer

Fair enough

 

[LuckyBenski]

I did a similar thing on my shed where the shiplap had bowed. Worked fine, but I didn't have to live in it.

Did you get a mega discount on the house?

Don't really wanna talk money much considering a) This is a DIY thread and b) House prices are somewhat an arbitrary number really. A house a few doors down was put up before we completed, for almost 25% more. So pitching for a "discount" seemed weird. Plus the survey recommended further investigation but ultimately, we had about 80 minutes across 3 visits to check stuff.

The way I see it is - it's my house, I want it, it's my job to sort it out. The house was within my means and offered more than anything else we could afford. If I were there 10 years before this issue came up, it'd be on me to sort it.

 

[dlockers]

Don't really wanna talk money much considering a) This is a DIY thread and b) House prices are somewhat an arbitrary number really. A house a few doors down was put up before we completed, for almost 25% more. So pitching for a "discount" seemed weird. Plus the survey recommended further investigation but ultimately, we had about 80 minutes across 3 visits to check stuff.

The way I see it is - it's my house, I want it, it's my job to sort it out. The house was within my means and offered more than anything else we could afford. If I were there 10 years before this issue came up, it'd be on me to sort it.

Fair does. If it makes you feel any better I've paid £140k over what the neighbour paid in 2020 for an identical house that was finished versus mine that basically need knocking down. I found one that was extended side, rear and 2nd story for £20k more than I paid.

I've now learnt it has a radon problem

 

[LuckyBenski]

I've now learnt it has a radon problem

Those exist?! I thought it was just one of those things they write down and charge £20 for.

And yeah if you like the house you like it, don't think about the money think about the home

 

[dlockers]

Those exist?! I thought it was just one of those things they write down and charge £20 for.

And yeah if you like the house you like it, don't think about the money think about the home

Haha well it was a funny story. I saw it on the searches, panicked - as we are literally the bullseye for the 'radon' problem - no other areas around us have it. Panic set in. We then checked my wifes family home postcode, 'ultra dark red' - we then checked my family home postcode, 'ultra dark red' - so hopefully the first 23 years of our lives living in a radon area have built a resilience.

 

[theone8181]

That's what the edging is for

You've obviously not had gravel before .