What watch do you wear?

[Deleted User 298457]

Just because a company says something costs x, doesn't mean it's worth that value to someone else, essentially price and value are not the same thing.

Value is in the eye of the beholder as you rightly said, but the price is heavily informed by this value (through market analysis and pricing sensitivity studies). I buy watches when my joy of having the thing exceeds the joy I get by looking at my bank account and seeing the same value in monetary terms. I can't remember the actual Economics definition but it is something along the lines of indifference curves and demand elasticity. Part of the hype for people buying name brand watches is that they are universally recognised as being premium products, the way they make you feel as presumably you've hit a milestone to be able to comfortably afford them, and quite meaningfully for a lot of people - how they retain or grow in value - despite the fact I don't think many of us buy watches with a view to flip. The latter is what gives the Rolex such a big following as it is seen as a "safe bet" versus the GS which is objectively a better watch, but doesn't have the following or brand heritage or visibility outside of major cities with GS boutiques that Rolex does.

 

[lsg1r]

Value is in the eye of the beholder as you rightly said, but the price is heavily informed by this value (through market analysis and pricing sensitivity studies). I buy watches when my joy of having the thing exceeds the joy I get by looking at my bank account and seeing the same value in monetary terms. I can't remember the actual Economics definition but it is something along the lines of indifference curves and demand elasticity. Part of the hype for people buying name brand watches is that they are universally recognised as being premium products, the way they make you feel as presumably you've hit a milestone to be able to comfortably afford them, and quite meaningfully for a lot of people - how they retain or grow in value - despite the fact I don't think many of us buy watches with a view to flip. The latter is what gives the Rolex such a big following as it is seen as a "safe bet" versus the GS which is objectively a better watch, but doesn't have the following or brand heritage or visibility outside of major cities with GS boutiques that Rolex does.

You've also got the 'I've got a rolex' situation where people will not want the perceived value (by others) of their watches going down so they'll big it up so to speak, you can see it quite easily on youtube where the entire channel vibe changes once the person gets a rolex and then basically spams their video's with 'rolex' topics..... personally that puts me off the channel.

At the end of the day I buy watches for 'me' and I don't need a Rolex to have a nice watch that makes me happy or impress others, plus like I've said if I was to spend that sort of money it wouldn't be on a rolex either way, but if another person does that's their decision.

Maybe it's because of my background (product design) but I don't see brand as something that determines if something is premium, yes it might be that a particular brand is better quality with the price to match but at the same time there are plenty of premium brands out there that use the cheapest of materials and stick a huge price on it because of their brand and marketing hype (think of fashion brands like supreme, most instagram brands etc...).

I'm also like kamakazie! in as much as I'd rather have a selection of watches and a choice rather than blow it all on one or two watches which cost more.. for me the value versus quality versus selection sweet spot is the 1-2k range with a few exceptions a little above and/or below. I also don't buy watches to flip them.

 

[mrk]

Stowa arrived today.

The leather strap is very nice, thick and soft but a little too thick for my liking not that I'd be wearing it anyway as prefer rubber, so swapped over the bronze buckle to the Hirsch pure natural rubber I had set aside for this.

Initial thoughts after the first day... Certainly a finely made piece of kit. The bronze finish has been done by hand and whatever treatment they give it they say won't further oxidise in normal use but may react a little bit depending on what liquid it comes into contact with. A little annoying the strap buckle did not undergo the same treatment so will have to let that age over time, nothing major.

The movement (Selita SW215-1 Top grade) winding action is nice and well damped although the clicking ratchet sound as you wind is not as loud as the one in the Hamilton (Hamilton H-50). It is a very nice looking movement though as the photos will show and Stowa have removed the ghost position when you opt for no-date which is nice, was fully expecting a ghost position like on the Laco (Miyota 8315) since no mention of its removal online anywhere, unless this is a recent thing.

Even though the lume is old radium for the day colour, it hasn't affected the luminosity of the C3 in darkness, seems to be as bright as the bare C3 on the Laco which seems to last a fair while.

The size and weight is almost perfect for me. Nice having a thinner case.

Interesting observation on the domed sapphire, the way reflections move around on the surface is different to any other domed sapphire I have had or seen on a watch. It's hard to describe but it's very smooth and lacks any sort of distortion/magnification - Looks cool.

Accuracy is supposed to be 0 to +10s a day but will keep an eye on. I've heard watches getting magnetised in shipping as they go through various scanning machines and things as they depart and arrive through countries. I have a demagnetiser anyway though if it does appear to be running fast.

Many photos warning... Kinda funny that my photos below are the only photos online of this model with the hand wind movement and bronze caseback together

I love the heat blued hands the way they shimmer in the light:

On the wrist (6.7")

More photos...

Spoiler

Size comparison vs the Laco 39m and Hamilton 36mm:

Lume comparison also:

 

[Deleted User 298457]

You've also got the 'I've got a rolex' situation where people will not want the perceived value (by others) of their watches going down so they'll big it up so to speak, you can see it quite easily on youtube where the entire channel vibe changes once the person gets a rolex and then basically spams their video's with 'rolex' topics..... personally that puts me off the channel.

At the end of the day I buy watches for 'me' and I don't need a Rolex to have a nice watch that makes me happy or impress others, plus like I've said if I was to spend that sort of money it wouldn't be on a rolex either way, but if another person does that's their decision.

Maybe it's because of my background (product design) but I don't see brand as something that determines if something is premium, yes it might be that a particular brand is better quality with the price to match but at the same time there are plenty of premium brands out there that use the cheapest of materials and stick a huge price on it because of their brand and marketing hype (think of fashion brands like supreme, most instagram brands etc...).

I'm also like kamakazie! in as much as I'd rather have a selection of watches and a choice rather than blow it all on one or two watches which cost more.. for me the value versus quality versus selection sweet spot is the 1-2k range with a few exceptions a little above and/or below. I also don't buy watches to flip them.

I think your point about Supreme summarised your stance quite well. Supreme is a lot more than a fashion house and people buy it for much more than the functional requirements. Your role in product design but not getting the brand element was a bit confusing though. I watch a lot of Frank Stephenson videos on YT and not getting the brand can't be a good thing for a product designer to have?

Your third paragraph is interesting as well. I just don't see this in the name brands. No one is looking at undermining brand at the cost of quality. I agree objectively though that the price is significantly higher than the pure quality of the engineering. That gap is the 'brand value' you are paying for.

 

[2StepSteve]

Stowa arrived today.

The leather strap is very nice, thick and soft but a little too thick for my liking not that I'd be wearing it anyway as prefer rubber, so swapped over the bronze buckle to the Hirsch pure natural rubber I had set aside for this.

Initial thoughts after the first day... Certainly a finely made piece of kit. The bronze finish has been done by hand and whatever treatment they give it they say won't further oxidise in normal use but may react a little bit depending on what liquid it comes into contact with. A little annoying the strap buckle did not undergo the same treatment so will have to let that age over time, nothing major.

The movement (Selita SW215-1 Top grade) winding action is nice and well damped although the clicking ratchet sound as you wind is not as loud as the one in the Hamilton (Hamilton H-50). It is a very nice looking movement though as the photos will show and Stowa have removed the ghost position when you opt for no-date which is nice, was fully expecting a ghost position like on the Laco (Miyota 8315) since no mention of its removal online anywhere, unless this is a recent thing.

Even though the lume is old radium for the day colour, it hasn't affected the luminosity of the C3 in darkness, seems to be as bright as the bare C3 on the Laco which seems to last a fair while.

The size and weight is almost perfect for me. Nice having a thinner case.

Interesting observation on the domed sapphire, the way reflections move around on the surface is different to any other domed sapphire I have had or seen on a watch. It's hard to describe but it's very smooth and lacks any sort of distortion/magnification - Looks cool.

Accuracy is supposed to be 0 to +10s a day but will keep an eye on. I've heard watches getting magnetised in shipping as they go through various scanning machines and things as they depart and arrive through countries. I have a demagnetiser anyway though if it does appear to be running fast.

Many photos warning... Kinda funny that my photos below are the only photos online of this model with the hand wind movement and bronze caseback together [/spoiler]

Nice! Those shots make me think I need a pilot in my collection.

 

[mrk]

I thought I'd miss the Type-B dial vs Type-A but given this is a 36mm, the Type-A markers nicely populate the dial area whereas you have more empty space on the 40mm and larger pilot watches so I'm very pleased on that front.

 

[lsg1r]

I think your point about Supreme summarised your stance quite well. Supreme is a lot more than a fashion house and people buy it for much more than the functional requirements. Your role in product design but not getting the brand element was a bit confusing though. I watch a lot of Frank Stephenson videos on YT and not getting the brand can't be a good thing for a product designer to have?

Your third paragraph is interesting as well. I just don't see this in the name brands. No one is looking at undermining brand at the cost of quality. I agree objectively though that the price is significantly higher than the pure quality of the engineering. That gap is the 'brand value' you are paying for.

As I said the brand only has value if someone believes that is important...

I know that branding has value in marketing terms and I'm sure plenty of people use that to judge an item's worth but I just don't take any notice of the branding when I am judging the value of something to me...essentially I'm ignoring the marketing and judging a product on the quality of the product not on the brand. As I've said earlier, I haven't bought a seiko because every time I've looked at one I've seen issues and while they have really high 'brand value' in watch circles their qc just doesn't live up to that reputation when I've looked at them.

I look at it like this, you have 2 watch brands, one well known, one less well known. I like the way they both look (both have the same 'vibe'), they both use the same brand/grade movements and both have the same quality of finish/materials, same warranties etc but one costs £1000 and the more well known brand cost £3000. In terms of value to me the £3000 is overpriced because I'm essentially paying £2000 more for a logo, that to me just doesn't make any sense, especially when 99% of people likely wouldn't care that you've bought a certain brand....to me it's like buying a can of heinz baked beans for some beans on toast even though you don't like how they taste and prefer a cheaper 'brand' of baked beans.

Teddy Baldassare has a video's with millenials reacting to watches (better than the original one) and it just shows that most people who aren't in to watches don't think watches are worth anywhere near the cost that some are retailed at.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

<snip>In terms of value to me the £3000 is overpriced because I'm essentially paying £2000 more for a logo

We're going to end up going around in circles so I'm out from henceforth (and agree to disagree) but suggesting that the brand is just the logo totally undermines how much effort goes into building an organisation like Rolex, Omega, IWC, Patek etc. It isn't just the logo being printed on the dial that makes it significant - see the Speedmaster Moon Watch as a prime example - but I get your point.

 

[lsg1r]

We're going to end up going around in circles so I'm out from henceforth (and agree to disagree) but suggesting that the brand is just the logo totally undermines how much effort goes into building an organisation like Rolex, Omega, IWC, Patek etc. It isn't just the logo being printed on the dial that makes it significant - see the Speedmaster Moon Watch as a prime example - but I get your point.

I'm not undermining how much work goes into promoting a brand, it takes a lot of effort and money to make it so a product is well known outside of the intended market. And in the case of Rolex they've clearly done great with the marketing because they're well known to the masses, unlike most of the other brands you mentioned.

Obviously you've taken notice of the marketing and along with ownership (iirc) think that the Rolex brand is worth the price they're charging...I don't and doubt I ever will, but at the end of the day if we all agreed on watches we wouldn't have so many options to choose from.

@mrk more info on the Stowa packaging please, for some reason I'm as intrigued by that as I am the watch lol. It looks like its some sort of moulded wood shavings/saw dust, which is a nice eco nod if that's the case..
Also what demagnetiser have you got?

 

[jpaul]

what was the tv show over the last couple of weeks 9/10pm where a professional watchmaker and her boss were valueiing/buying watches,
and explaining criteria they were using ? included some discussion on Steve McQueens watches
.. wouldn't mind watching further episodes but can't find the listing. ?

 

[2StepSteve]

I thought I'd miss the Type-B dial vs Type-A but given this is a 36mm, the Type-A markers nicely populate the dial area whereas you have more empty space on the 40mm and larger pilot watches so I'm very pleased on that front.

Looks very good, impressive case back as well. Definitely a lovely piece and that’s got to take some of the sting out of customs, especially when your happy.

I’ve been given the green light for a Speedmaster. It’s been a grail for a while. I'm spell bound by it and its history, got to be the 1861 movement for me for this reason.

A hell of a lot of money, but I just think if I don’t get one now, I’ll likely never be able to with how Omega are on the price hike trend. A piece to keep in the family for sure.

It's been going in and out stock at my preferred AD over the last few weeks, out of stock at the moment, shall see if I pull the trigger.. I suspect I will

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Looks very good, impressive case back as well. Definitely a lovely piece and that’s got to take some of the sting out of customs, especially when your happy.

I’ve been given the green light for a Speedmaster. It’s been a grail for a while. I'm spell bound by it and its history, got to be the 1862 movement for me for this reason.

A hell of a lot of money, but I just think if I don’t get one now, I’ll likely never be able to with how Omega are on the price hike trend. A piece to keep in the family for sure.

It's been going in and out stock at my preferred AD over the last few weeks, out of stock at the moment, shall see if I pull the trigger.. I suspect I will

Make sure you ask for the discount (if paying cash)!

 

[Graetzbridge]

Try again............

 

[Derek W]

what was the tv show over the last couple of weeks 9/10pm where a professional watchmaker and her boss were valueiing/buying watches,
and explaining criteria they were using ? included some discussion on Steve McQueens watches
.. wouldn't mind watching further episodes but can't find the listing. ?

It wasn't this was it? Channel 4 but I didn't watch it personally https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews....-channel-4-watches-handbags-resell-966204/amp

 

[jpaul]

It wasn't this was it? Channel 4

thanks yes https://www.watchpro.com/xupes-stars-in-channel-4s-second-hand-for-50-grand-tv-show/
Joe was joined by watch expert Meghan Young to examine the Rolex, which is known as the Paul Newman after the iconic actor who wore it.
seems to have been a on off.

 

[mrk]

Looks very good, impressive case back as well. Definitely a lovely piece and that’s got to take some of the sting out of customs, especially when your happy.

I've just been comparing the Stowa next to the Laco and I forgot just how much of a tank the Laco is lol even though there's no functional reason for it being so thick, the Miyota 8315 is a rather slim movement and the case is only WR 50m with a press fit caseback so not like that needs to be thick either. Not a complaint but just a surprise even the automatic movement option on the Stowa is only around 10mm.

I’ve been given the green light for a Speedmaster. It’s been a grail for a while. I'm spell bound by it and its history, got to be the 1862 movement for me for this reason.

A hell of a lot of money, but I just think if I don’t get one now, I’ll likely never be able to with how Omega are on the price hike trend. A piece to keep in the family for sure.

It's been going in and out stock at my preferred AD over the last few weeks, out of stock at the moment, shall see if I pull the trigger.. I suspect I will

If I was to ever get a Speedy then it would be one of those too or at least a vintage one but looking at the prices the ship has long sailed for that to be a reality lol. The same goes for Subs, if the chance ever came up and a Comex landed in front of me and I had the funds, then sure I'd have one of those too but that's about as far as I'd go I think.

A Tag Monaco in Steve McQueen blue is still on the wishlist and will likely forever be sadly. Great watch but I can't justify in any way why it costs as much as it does for what it is having tried one on in duty free a few years ago. Really nice but does not look or feel its price in the flesh.

 

[lsg1r]

I've just been comparing the Stowa next to the Laco and I forgot just how much of a tank the Laco is lol even though there's no functional reason for it being so thick, the Miyota 8315 is a rather slim movement and the case is only WR 50m with a press fit caseback so not like that needs to be thick either. Not a complaint but just a surprise even the automatic movement option on the Stowa is only around 10mm.

According to online specs the miyota is 5.67mm and the manual sellita in in stowa is 3.35mm (4.6mm for auto) so 2.32mm difference and almost half the thickness. That's a fair bit of difference when the watches are only around 9-12mm thick themselves, that's like shaving 1/5 of the thickness off the laco which would likely remove most of the 'vertical rim' above the crown

 

[mrk]

Hmm that's a good point and yeah would account for the difference - Always assumed because the 8315 is a relatively small movement as it is visually looking at it that its thickness would be small too.

 

[Ruki]

New to the forum, and this post caught my attention.
I always loved Panerais and would love to own one, but I was never able to afford it, hopefully in the future.

 

[panthro]

New to the forum, and this post caught my attention.
I always loved Panerais and would love to own one, but I was never able to afford it, hopefully in the future.

Having owned several, my first piece of advice is don't pay RRP. They don't tend to hold their value unless it's a collectable pre Vendome model, a Bronzo or an early Richemont piece with outsourced movements such as JLC.