What's going to happen to the car market?

[Gibbo]

£100k+ cars are just going to bomb now. Even 911 GTs are dropping.

Yep seen lots of new lows, 720S at under 140k, 911 GT3 RS 125k, Performante 158k and all retail prices too fair to say they are trading 10-20k lower than that.

The 570S will soon be the bargain supercar to own, will easily be low 70's maybe high 60's by end of year. If it is true Mclaren were guaranteeing values on finance deals and funding the difference themselves then they are in big trouble as it is Mclaren who will have to stump up the cash difference when the car is handed back and not the finance company.

 

[Maccy]

Don't say that @Gibbo, you'll tempt me to buy a 570s...

 

[Gibbo]

Don't say that @Gibbo, you'll tempt me to buy a 570s...

I am sure many will be tempted because problems aside they are epic cars and even with the issues become a real bargain at such values.

The other car if it drops below 40k to be a real bargin will be the Alfa saloon with the name I cannot spell, but I am sure you know the one I am on about.

To be fair the two above cars were somewhat in freefall anyway, the pandemic has just made it even worse.

 

[Nasher]

Hopefully the Alfa won't be like the Brera lol. Most of those seem to have been scrapped already.

 

[Fusion]

I feel sorry for anyone who bought into the hype of the Aston Martin IPO. Probably quite a few well intentioned brand loyalists who have seen their cash turn to dust.

 

[balky12]

@Gibbo Why is it that McLaren always seen the worst when it comes to depreciation? They make a good car...

 

[Gibbo]

@Gibbo Why is it that McLaren always seen the worst when it comes to depreciation? They make a good car...

I think the Jayemm videos explain it best:

Last video probably explains it best.

But needless to say poor after service, poor attitude in some cases and them totally somewhat diss interested in the used market and the huge depreciation their cars suffer and how they simply are all pretty much the same.

All the Mclarens are same or modified carbon tub, they all use the same 3.8-4.0 twin turbo V8 and are all two seaters, in short all their cars are so similar as to say and they simply make too many cars and release too many models, many people have said this for years and now it is biting them in the backside.

I can also see Ferrari also suffering a little form this as Ferrari went to having so few models with things setting them apart to now all pretty much using the same V8 engine twin turbo engine, and also similar for Lamborghini there V10 NA engine might be an engine from the gods but there are so many Lamborghini and Audi's with that engine now it has become less special. But saying that Ferrari and Lamborghini I feel are way more special than Mclaren and when it comes to used cars and older cars Ferrari are a league above the other marques in looking after those older cars and their customers, plus there is plenty of specialist around too. But even during these times a Ferrari or Lamborghini still cost a lot more for a much older car than say a 540/570S.

I like Mclaren cars and they were on my short list but I avoided buying one as I disliked engine sound, worried over service and reliability and felt it would depreciate like a lead weight and well I got that absolutely spot on.
I felt a GT3 RS was the safest place to put my money, but when I drove all the cars the Ferrari 458 was just magical and I felt would depreciate but not at the same rate as say a Lamborghini and certainly nowhere near the rate of Mclaren.

Just to note when I was looking to buy a 570S was 110-120 and a 570 Spyder was 140-160k so needless to say I dodged a bullit as today they are 80k and 100k respectively and even as a 570 Spyder was recently sold on Facebook for 92k I believe.

 

[Fusion]

I guess it comes down to scarcity, as Gibbo points out. Do people tend to pay list for McLarens new, or do they get decent discounts? They seem to shift an awful lot of them given the price.

 

[Nasher]

British performance car makers seem to be permanently on the verge of collapse. I don't know how they do it

 

[Gibbo]

I guess it comes down to scarcity, as Gibbo points out. Do people tend to pay list for McLarens new, or do they get decent discounts? They seem to shift an awful lot of them given the price.

Yep Mclaren are discounting at both ends though, chunks of list price and then guaranteeing a value when you hand it back and if true that is a value of their own backs and not the finance company.
So those people who say got a new 570S discounted to 160k with a minimum guaranteed value of say 100k in three years and now hand it back but finance company say gives only 60k, then that 40k difference is made up by Mclaren, so take their initial profits then deduct 40k and at that point it comes to how much money can they be making because they need to makes lots of money to keep paying the rent, wages, R&D, warranty repairs etc.

Awesome cars and let us hope the likes of Mclaren, Lotus, Aston are still here in several years, Aston will for sure because of its age, but Mclaren who knows, maybe the Chinese will buy them up cheap.

 

[Nasher]

The Chinese already own Lotus at the moment :/

Lotus dealers/support seem to be very good at least.

 

[Chris1712]

Honestly a 12C / 570S is about the only thing I'd replace my 4C with next, so I'm happy to see them keep dropping! Certainly more to go, but I can only imagine they will start to turn the tide soon and put some money into after service and expanding support of independent specialists.
That should save the market somewhat and help everyone out, if we start to get good specialists like Porsche I will be all over a 12C/570S @ 60k. Question is will they go further than that, they could possibly follow the V8V / R8 into 40k territory which is mad. I would LOVE an early 12C with the swipey doors and everything, think they're somewhat collectable and definitely iconic.

 

[Nasher]

Funny thing is the 4c probably won't lose much value. It's the really expensive stuff which is taking a hit. People can stomach the price of a 4c and they don't cost much to run, but 100k+ supercars is completely different territory.

 

[Chris1712]

Funny thing is the 4c probably won't lose much value. It's the really expensive stuff which is taking a hit. People can stomach the price of a 4c and they don't cost much to run, but 100k+ supercars is completely different territory.

Sort of agree. But there's still quite a few sat with dealers that don't really know what to do with them, so they control the top of the market now IMO. Private sales I agree, but dealers could cut them to basically auction prices which would have a knock on effect. Obviously have all my fingers crossed, but I won't be selling it any time soon anyway!

 

[Gibbo]

Sort of agree. But there's still quite a few sat with dealers that don't really know what to do with them, so they control the top of the market now IMO. Private sales I agree, but dealers could cut them to basically auction prices which would have a knock on effect. Obviously have all my fingers crossed, but I won't be selling it any time soon anyway!

If your not selling, don't worry about it.
My 458 will be taking a bashing, but no plans on selling it and as with all things at some point market will recover/settle and certain stuff holds value better. No matter what happens those Mclaren values are gonna keep crashing though so you may get your bargain indeed, but 570S over a MP4-12C everytime and depending what happens in Mclaren land the 650S and 675LT were the models built to very high standard around when they did the P1, the newer stuff is where the QC seem to really slip.

 

[Ev0]

I know there's two sides to every story, and things that are not the norm, but those videos above paint Mclaren in a horrific light.

 

[sigma]

The 570S I saw up close a while back had, quite frankly, shoddy build quality.

Poor paint finish, trim coming loose and it had other issues previously. The owner was considering dumping it at their HQ.

Funnily enough it was sat next to a 20 year old Nissan which had a better (still original) paint finish...

 

[Nasher]

It's really hard to paint composite bodywork which won't help. It likes to bubble :/

 

[Gibbo]

It's really hard to paint composite bodywork which won't help. It likes to bubble :/

On 200k cars it has gotta be right, the excuse it is hard to paint is totally unacceptable on a car costing 200k. On the plus side the one I was interested in, was a pearl yellow and its paint work was immaculate and I think this is Mclarens issue they can make totally awesome cars, that have no issues and are built to high standards, but at the same time they are also letting cars that clearly fail QC out the factory.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

The DVLA has confirmed that potential car buyers will be allowed solo test drives, providing the dealership has registered trade plates and insurance in place.

It’s another sign that the motor industry in gearing up to reopen as soon as lockdown restrictions are relaxed.


Means you can go test drive that GT86 or Supra and drift it to your hearts content and hand it back with the tyres on the cords?

Always had mixed results, but saying that when I went test driving S2000's nearly all dealerships just handed me the keys, put £20 in and just sent us on our way, which was great but I have always found it rather annoying when a sales guy insist on coming with you as then your normally on their route and tend to hold back, though some sales guys have being fine and as mad if not more crazy than myself.