When are you going fully electric?

[cuke2u]

Of course we can. Why would you think we can't?

Then why were we dependant upon having to import more last year from fossil fuelled power stations based in other countries? https://www.energylivenews.com/2024/01/22/britain-hits-record-in-electricity-imports/
And https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news-...gov-plans-to-build-new-gas-fired-power-plants

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Then why were we dependant upon having to import more last year from fossil fuelled power stations based in other countries? https://www.energylivenews.com/2024/01/22/britain-hits-record-in-electricity-imports/
And https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news-...gov-plans-to-build-new-gas-fired-power-plants

Have you considered it may be due to a failure of government planning and constant litigation from NIMBYs?

There is no fundamental reason as to why the U.K. couldn’t product all of its own energy.

 

[Kenai]

Then why were we dependant upon having to import more last year from fossil fuelled power stations based in other countries? https://www.energylivenews.com/2024/01/22/britain-hits-record-in-electricity-imports/
And https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news-...gov-plans-to-build-new-gas-fired-power-plants

We weren't 'dependent' in that we needed to import because we couldn't generate enough - it was simply cheaper to buy other countries excess than to run our own generation

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Two wrongs don't make a right though and the same argument applies to EV's.

No one said it was.

Clearly this country cannot support the production of electricity to support us if we all go EV, let alone everyone converting the heating of their property by heat pump. Here in the UK to support this increased production there is no doubt we will have to build more power stations that is in themselves damaging to the environment and also put in place eco damaging all of the infrastructure to deliver this electricity. Similar then to hydrogen?

No it’s not similar. Clean hydrogen production needs close to 6 times electricity of just putting it into a battery. It just makes no sense from an efficiency perspective. You’d a hell of a lot more generation capacity to run vehicles on hydrogen compared to electric.

One of the other arguments for more power stations is that we will then be no longer be held to ransom by any country run by a despot dictator, LOL, yet we allow Chinese built EV's into the UK undermining our own industry. Which country is China actively funding to be at war?

We are a net importer of cars and have been for a long time. I don’t see what your point is here.

Then there is the current method of obtaining the necessary metals to support the 'alternative energy sector', which is also damaging our environment exploiting poorer countries in the same way that oil production is doing.

This is a false equivalence. Mining damages local habitat but it doesn’t have a global impact on the ecology of the planet. Burning fossil fuels is the worst option on all counts and that is established beyond doubt and has been for decades.

 

[Mr Jack]

Then why were we dependant upon having to import more last year from fossil fuelled power stations based in other countries?

You said "Clearly this country cannot support the production of electricity to support us if we all go EV" which is a statement about the future; surely a minimum of a least a decade ahead. I'm not sure why the current state of energy production is relevant to that? Obviously the UK, and other countries, will need to increase the production of electricity - hopefully primarily through environmentally friendly means like renewables and nuclear - but I don't see any reason to believe that isn't possible.

 

[[YG]Bug-Eyed]

Then why were we dependant upon having to import more last year from fossil fuelled power stations based in other countries? https://www.energylivenews.com/2024/01/22/britain-hits-record-in-electricity-imports/
And https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news-...gov-plans-to-build-new-gas-fired-power-plants

Peak energy use is during the day when everyone awake, commerce and industry all 100% working.

Over night there is spare capacity as a lot of the above isn’t happening, and that will nicely tie into when majority of people will be charging cars.

 

[cuke2u]

You said "Clearly this country cannot support the production of electricity to support us if we all go EV" which is a statement about the future; surely a minimum of a least a decade ahead. I'm not sure why the current state of energy production is relevant to that? Obviously the UK, and other countries, will need to increase the production of electricity - hopefully primarily through environmentally friendly means like renewables and nuclear - but I don't see any reason to believe that isn't possible.

I find your statement confusing, if we can't cope with the electricity demand now, leading us to import more and to built more power stations, how are we going to cope in any future when the demand is higher. The increase of sales in EV's was such that 1 in 10 vehicles sold in the UK are electric and that will only go up. There is a estimtaed 975,000 electric cars on the road in the UK and 590,000 plug-in hybrids and that figure will only go up.

As for additional power stations being eco friendly, or nuclear, I don't think those two words sit together very well as many would rightfully argue nuclear is hardly eco unless you wish to split hairs by stating just 'in the generation of electricity'. Plus this current government, that can only hope to be rid of soon, isn't committed to eco as they wouldn't be be building gas fired ones that had no carbon capture.

 

[Kenai]

I find your statement confusing, if we can't cope with the electricity demand now, leading us to import more and to built more power stations, how are we going to cope in any future when the demand is higher.

We can cope with the energy demand now.

We import because it can be more cost effective.

New power stations being built now are primarily for replacement of aging stations, not because we can't cope with demand.

 

[Mr Jack]

I find your statement confusing, if we can't cope with the electricity demand now, leading us to import more and to built more power stations, how are we going to cope in any future when the demand is higher. The increase of sales in EV's was such that 1 in 10 vehicles sold in the UK are electric and that will only go up. There is a estimtaed 975,000 electric cars on the road in the UK and 590,000 plug-in hybrids and that figure will only go up.

Because it's obvious that we need to increase capacity in order to handle electric vehicles and the shift from gas heating to more efficient heat pumps. What I don't see why we should believe that this isn't something that the UK is well able to handle? Take it seriously, and we should be able to keep up with demand.

As for additional power stations being eco friendly, or nuclear, I don't think those two words sit together very well as many would rightfully argue nuclear is hardly eco unless you wish to split hairs by stating just 'in the generation of electricity'.

Nuclear is absolutely an environmentally friendly form of energy production; if the world had followed France in leaning heavily on nuclear we'd be in a much better place. Not only in terms of not producing CO2 but also in terms of radioactive pollution in the environment - where nuclear contributes less than fossil fuels. Eventually, one hopes it'll be completely surpassed by renewables and/or fusion, but in terms of current means of energy production, it is a very clean option.

Plus this current government, that can only hope to be rid of soon, isn't committed to eco as they wouldn't be be building gas fired ones that had no carbon capture.

The one thing that would make me believe the UK can't do this is the continuation of the current government; I too hope we're soon rid of them.

 

[cuke2u]

No one said it was.

No it’s not similar. Clean hydrogen production needs close to 6 times electricity of just putting it into a battery. It just makes no sense from an efficiency perspective. You’d a hell of a lot more generation capacity to run vehicles on hydrogen compared to electric.

I am not for hydrogen fuel cells at all anyway, they have the same issues that EV's have.

We are a net importer of cars and have been for a long time. I don’t see what your point is here.

Indeed we have, however China have a deliberate policy of heavily subsidising their car industry so they can undercut the cost of any equivalent in other countries and their reputation for any respect of human rights is appalling. Plus China is completely complicit in supporting Russia's war in the Ukraine financially. At the end of the day there are alternatives and it's up to the individual but governments have been looking at placing a import tax on them, which will probably result in the usual tit for tat game.

This is a false equivalence. Mining damages local habitat but it doesn’t have a global impact on the ecology of the planet. Burning fossil fuels is the worst option on all counts and that is established beyond doubt and has been for decades.

I'm sure oil companies probably use the same excuse so as to completely ignore the effects on a local population. But you're correct about burning fossil fuels, however we should make a contribution towards that by not building anymore gas fired power stations without any carbon collection, at least, either.

 

[cuke2u]

Because it's obvious that we need to increase capacity in order to handle electric vehicles and the shift from gas heating to more efficient heat pumps. What I don't see why we should believe that this isn't something that the UK is well able to handle? Take it seriously, and we should be able to keep up with demand.



Nuclear is absolutely an environmentally friendly form of energy production; if the world had followed France in leaning heavily on nuclear we'd be in a much better place. Not only in terms of not producing CO2 but also in terms of radioactive pollution in the environment - where nuclear contributes less than fossil fuels. Eventually, one hopes it'll be completely surpassed by renewables and/or fusion, but in terms of current means of energy production, it is a very clean option.



The one thing that would make me believe the UK can't do this is the continuation of the current government; I too hope we're soon rid of them.

At least we can agree on one thing

 

[bigmike20vt]

I find your statement confusing, if we can't cope with the electricity demand now, leading us to import more and to built more power stations, how are we going to cope in any future when the demand is higher. The increase of sales in EV's was such that 1 in 10 vehicles sold in the UK are electric and that will only go up. There is a estimtaed 975,000 electric cars on the road in the UK and 590,000 plug-in hybrids and that figure will only go up.

As for additional power stations being eco friendly, or nuclear, I don't think those two words sit together very well as many would rightfully argue nuclear is hardly eco unless you wish to split hairs by stating just 'in the generation of electricity'. Plus this current government, that can only hope to be rid of soon, isn't committed to eco as they wouldn't be be building gas fired ones that had no carbon capture.

EVs need to be charged off peak and most of them are..... if anything EVs HELP the grid by breaking the back of the duck curve. in the future hopefully they can help even more by owners donating a percentage of their battery when plugged in in peak times to smooth out even more with the carrot of even cheaper off peak charging.

you dont need to take my word for it...... just dont believe the gutter press either. multiple people from the national grid have said intelligent charging of EVs simply is not a concern for the grid, why people believe sh..e in our media over the actual people who run the grid just boggles me.

That said...........we need more renewable. my preference would be more wind and every house roof having solar, and carpark awnings and industrial buildings...... then my preference would be solar on lakes as well as tidal.

even then maybe we need some nuclear as well......... not perfect but sometimes perfection is the enemy of the good.

i am generally not a huge fan of on shore solar farms *however* if done correctly there are some crops which are complementary to solar farms and they have been shown to help natural habitat as well, so perhaps even they are ok as well.

as for importing diry energy. last year France had problems with their nuclear stock and some of our interconnects were damaged as well. AFAIK both these issues are now fixed, but for sure, as well as more renewable generation we do need more interconnects.

hell there are wind turbines sat unable to produce properly because the national grid cant connect them properly. There is a lot of work to be done.... but using hydrogen which is WAY more inefficient than just using the electricity in a battery EV is just making things even worse. (as in needing - from memory please dont hold me to this 6kwh of electricity to give 1kwh of thrust in a Hydrogen powered car, vs 1/4 of that for a battery powered EV). (and the electricity still needs to be generated for both vehicles before that point)

ultimately EVs are not green. IF you want to be green walk, or cycle..... but they are greenER than any other car.

btw i am far from perfect. i should cut down my meat and i am going on holiday to spain in August, my carbon footprint is much larger than it needs to be. but the thing with EVs (if you can charge from home) is for the vast majority of people who can charge at home its reducing your footprint with hardly any hardship or downsides.

IF i couldnt charge at home i would not buy an EV......... but equally i would not buy a brand new ICE car either...... There are so many really nice ICE cars that I could buy 2nd hand now that it makes far more sense to buy one of those, and hope that in 5 years when i come to upgrade again charging an EV has improved.

There is nothing wrong with driving an ICE car imo...... it is buying brand new ones that i personally think is a bit daft. (i do wonder how many of these people living on the 15th story flat or what ever that the media likes to portray as why they cant buy a brand new EV, so have to buy a brand new diesel instead actually exist anyway........ To each their own and all that but if i lived in such a block of flats if it were me i would buy a cheap 2nd hand car anyway and save the money)

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I am not for hydrogen fuel cells at all anyway, they have the same issues that EV's have.

So what are you for? The status quo which is more damaging in every way?

Indeed we have, however China have a deliberate policy of heavily subsidising their car industry so they can undercut the cost of any equivalent in other countries and their reputation for any respect of human rights is appalling. Plus China is completely complicit in supporting Russia's war in the Ukraine financially. At the end of the day there are alternatives and it's up to the individual but governments have been looking at placing a import tax on them, which will probably result in the usual tit for tat game.

We already have a 10% import tariff on all cars from outside our existing strade deals and have done for as long as I can remember. That includes those built in China and America (who also subsidise their own domestic car industry). Funnily enough, we also subsidise our domestic car industry.

E.g. the U.K. government is putting 500m of subsidy into this 4bn battery factory for JLR/Tata.

Tata Group to invest over £4 billion in UK gigafactory creating thousands of jobs

Tata Group has announced that it will invest over £4 billion in a new UK gigafactory which will create thousands of jobs.

www.gov.uk

I'm sure oil companies probably use the same excuse so as to completely ignore the effects on a local population. But you're correct about burning fossil fuels, however we should make a contribution towards that by not building anymore gas fired power stations without any carbon collection, at least, either.

Carbon capture doesn’t currently exist outside of a R&D environment that’s why.

 

[bigmike20vt]

It amazes me that we have been subsidising / giving tax breaks (however you want to spin it) the fossil fuel industry for many many decades anyway and no one batted an eylid... Why is it suddently a problem now that green energy may get some of the benefits

 

[m4rmite]

Then why were we dependant upon having to import more last year from fossil fuelled power stations based in other countries? https://www.energylivenews.com/2024/01/22/britain-hits-record-in-electricity-imports/
And https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news-...gov-plans-to-build-new-gas-fired-power-plants

Because there's tonnes when it's cheaper to import than generate ourselves.
The uk also generated over 30% of the electricity used, from wind alone.
Remove these " will never work" forms of electrical creation and we could certainly have had blackouts , evs or no evs.

Interestingly we use less electricity than 20 years ago, even with a million evs on the road.
Think about that one

 

[bigmike20vt]

Because there's tonnes when it's cheaper to import than generate ourselves.
The uk also generated over 30% of the electricity used, from wind alone.
Remove these " will never work" forms of electrical creation and we could certainly have had blackouts , evs or no evs.

Interestingly we use less electricity than 20 years ago, even with a million evs on the road.
Think about that one

indeed... mostly down to LED light bulbs, LCD/OLED TVs and A rated kitchen appliences i believe.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Remember when they were accusing the EU of taking our vacuum cleaners and incandescent light bulbs?

 

[bigmike20vt]

Remember when they were accusing the EU of taking our vacuum cleaners and incandescent light bulbs?

lol no that is a new one on me. was that before or after bendy bananas-gate?

 

[OldKitMan]

lol no that is a new one on me. was that before or after bendy bananas-gate?

after I think - there was great uproar at 100w incandescent bulbs being banned.

 

[bigmike20vt]

btw this is a good site for a quick glance at our energy generation... for the record right now, its an appalling day for clean energy

National Grid: Live

Shows the live status of Great Britain’s electric power transmission network

grid.iamkate.com

(infact it is the worst i have seen it for a long time only 19% renewable at time of posting) I may skip charging the wifes car tonight unless it improves.