When are you going fully electric?

Doesn’t the highland have 66kwh usable capacity? With 4.4miles/kWh that should be close to 300mile range.

Is 250mile the max you got out of the full charge?

Pretty sure 500 miles on £16 is 1/4 or 1/5 of a petrol car. Even £32 for 500miles is around 1/3 of petrol car. That’s about the limit of a tank of a petrol. A tank is around £80-90
 
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pc-guy said:
Doesn’t the highland have 66kwh usable capacity? With 4.4miles/kWh that should be close to 300mile range.

Is 250mile the max you got out of the full charge?

Pretty sure 500 miles on £16 is 1/4 or 1/5 of a petrol car. Even £32 for 500miles is around 1/3 of petrol car. That’s about the limit of a tank of a petrol. A tank is around £80-90
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I got the RWD, so 57.5Kwh usable. So 253 miles, but there is a buffer (lots of videos on YouTube of them run well past 0%.

It was only £16 due to 100 free miles of supercharging due to delivery rules of less than 50%. Should have been around £30. My A3 (PHEV) that it is replacing cost about £60 to fill.

Edit: whatever way you look at it insane value. For my normal driving, I won’t need public charging, so will cost me <2p per mile and I will be able to claim 8p for work trips (as I do minimum of 200 miles per week for work).

The reason I went for the RWD apart from cost is the LFP battery can be charged to 100% every night. The long range NCM battery is 80% so they have basically an identical range in normal conditions.

The saving in charging or charging speed whould have been negligible for the extra £100 per month and extra year on the lease. I came to the conclusion I wanted the long range for the sound system and nuts acceleration, which was a little silly.
 
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crazyDAJT said:
The reason I went for the RWD apart from cost is the LFP battery can be charged to 100% every night. The long range NCM battery is 80% so they have basically an identical range in normal conditions.
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You can charge a NCM battery to 100% not sure where this myth has come from tbh.
 
The only reason Tesla want you charging to 100% is cos their BMS isnt good enough to actually keep track of the SoC accurately. Amazing how they have actually turned that into a 'feature' amongst its drivers. Its hilarious TBH.
 
but that's true for all manufacturers - the increased lifespan cycles of the LFP has been traded-off for against inability to accurately measure LFP battery charge levels, which necessitates the 100% charge.
(maybe some manufacturers are putting more accurate temperature monitoring in on lfp batteries ?)
 
chanjy said:
You can charge a NCM battery to 100% not sure where this myth has come from tbh.
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Tesla advice is 80% for day to day use, for NCM. 100% for long trips. So as I said, for day to day use they have the same range.

Jonnycoupe said:
The only reason Tesla want you charging to 100% is cos their BMS isnt good enough to actually keep track of the SoC accurately. Amazing how they have actually turned that into a 'feature' amongst its drivers. Its hilarious TBH.
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LFP has a very flat voltage curve, this present a problem for BMS’s, I have a home battery the is LFP, it has the same issue that it needs to charge to 100% regularly, it’s not because Tesla’s BMS is rubbish.

However the chemistry is much more tolerant to charging to 100%. This is the feature.
 
jpaul said:
but that's true for all manufacturers - the increased lifespan cycles of the LFP has been traded-off for against inability to accurately measure LFP battery charge levels, which necessitates the 100% charge.
(maybe some manufacturers are putting more accurate temperature monitoring in on lfp batteries ?)
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Correct. Sorry whats that adding to what i said? Its just chemistry people with the cheaper less dense battery seem to be holding onto as a feature.

Its like celebrating a non turbo diesel engine as its cheaper to make... like great, and?
 
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crazyDAJT said:
Tesla advice is 80% for day to day use, for NCM. 100% for long trips. So as I said, for day to day use they have the same range.



LFP has a very flat voltage curve, this present a problem for BMS’s, I have a home battery the is LFP, it has the same issue that it needs to charge to 100% regularly, it’s not because Tesla’s BMS is rubbish.

However the chemistry is much more tolerant to charging to 100%. This is the feature.
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Thats literally what i said, just hardly anyone else uses LFP and they dont celebrate the 100% like Tesla do, much like these 'self driving EVs' when my diesel Defender truck did just as good a job!
 
jpaul said:
but that's true for all manufacturers - the increased lifespan cycles of the LFP has been traded-off for against inability to accurately measure LFP battery charge levels, which necessitates the 100% charge.
(maybe some manufacturers are putting more accurate temperature monitoring in on lfp batteries ?)
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Exactly, Givenergy had this exact issue in 2022, with battery going to 0% under load. They did a big article on this that explains why this happens and what they did to the BMS firmware to change it. Some of this was quite advanced.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Thats literally what i said, just hardly anyone else uses LFP and they dont celebrate the 100% like Tesla do, much like these 'self driving EVs' when my diesel Defender truck did just as good a job!
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Loads of manufactures use LFP.

It’s a cheeper, safer more long lasting chemistry with no cobalt. What’s not to like. Yes it less energy dense. But a complete non issue.
 
.. when you re-charge lfp to 100% can you easily see/track what the error is between the energy added and what the the charge estimate was ? ie is it 1% or 5%.
if so you could could comfortably incorporate that in your future range calculations.
 
I think there are probably 2 peoples which people are taking exception to:

Where do Tesla ‘celebrate’ charging to 100%?

I’ve certainly not seen that in any of their marketing materials. Happy to be corrected. It seems to be an owner justification for buying the cheaper car rather than anything Tesla say.

Likewise how is their BMS ‘rubbish’?

If you use LFP cells, it’s a pretty standard requirement. I drove an LFP car for 2 years and had zero issues with SOC misreporting or sudden drop offs and I didn’t charge the car to 100% every week per their advice.

That said I agree with the notion that LFP is not better because it can be charged to 100% ‘daily’.

It’s heavy, you have less range when you actually need it, it charges slower when you go outside the range of the car.

Its main benefit is it’s cheaper, less prone to thermal run anway and in theory can handle more cycles.

While it can handle more cycles, its generally cycled more often because they tend to have lower capacities and they tend to get left at 100% for longer so the durability benefit has some question marks still.
 
Which Google cookie do you get?

A battery system requiring an active user recalibration falls into rubbish in my camp. Please dont use air quote in that context - poor form.

The fact we are even discussing it shows how its 'celebrated' it is, you are living in 2008 to think otherwise. Unfortunatley too much Dunning-Kruger as usual here - and yes an element of purchase justification syndrome.

Have a great day all, jpaul taken more than hes given - typical.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Go on, name a few.
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Tesla
BYD
MG
BMW are moving to it
hyundai are moving to it
ORA
The new mini electric
God knows how many other Chinese EV.
Etc

I honestly don’t see the issue at all, I get a cheeper car with a slightly less range and slightly less charging speed. That’s probably measured in minutes.

I just charge is to 100% as per the manufacturer guidelines and don’t care about managing the battery. 50miles more range for 10K doesn’t feel worth it as my bladder will give out before the car will anyway.
 
Not many then :)

Ford are also 'moving to it' Only cos they are making more cars than they can sell like most EV so need to pull the material cost out the products, if we keep going down that path of cost then engines will be coming back :eek:

£10K NMC is more than just range! far better voltage maintained at a wider temperature window to give you max power before derating.
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
Which Google cookie do you get?

A battery system requiring an active user recalibration falls into rubbish in my camp. Please dont use air quote in that context - poor form.
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It’s not really an active user recalibration though is it.

The car tells you very clearly on to set the charge slider to 100% and just leave it there just like NMC cars often tell its users to not charge to 100% if you don’t need it. You have to go out of your way to not do that and get into trouble in both cases.

Jonnycoupe said:
The fact we are even discussing it shows how its 'celebrated' it is, you are living in 2008 to think otherwise. Unfortunatley too much Dunning-Kruger as usual here - and yes an element of purchase justification syndrome.
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We agree to a point, I expect the myth has been propagated from the usual youtubers and has seem to stuck with certain communities.

The other counter factual is that an NMC car isn’t going to suddenly destroy its battery if you also charge it to 100%. I regularly 100% the Model Y, it’s also fine.

However while there is not such thing as a free lunch, LFP being cheaper is an enabler of cheaper EVs and increasing the accessibility of EVs is something I think we can all agree is a good thing.
 
surely both techs have their place.... high end car enthusiasts who are happy to look after their car will likely be less interested in LFP because if you buy a premium performance brand then the higher battery density and performance will be a key consideration and you may not mind having to charge the car properly, just like if you buy a performance ICE car you may be happy to buy expensive oil and change it regularly etc and not put 95ron fuel in it..

but for the cheaper end of the market, where a bit less range may not be a killer then LFP i think will be a good shout. also for the people who have a car as a utility item and dont want to worry about looking after them, then the ability just to charge to 100% in a brainless plug it in and forget will be nice to have and someone in a micra equvalent may not care if they lose some performance or charging rate when doing the 3 mile supermarket run in winter..

I do think our media have over egged EV fires and the cobalt problem (why is the Express or the sun not raging at cobalt in catalytic converters or oil refining) however LFP batteries also may help put the minds at rest of punters who are worried about their car spontaneously combusting or supporting artisanal cobalt mining (regardless of whether or not these are genuine concerns - i am no expert i will be the 1st to admit but i thought most car manufacturers sourced their cobalt ethically..... perhaps i am niave........... but i didnt worry about blood diamonds when i got my wife her engagement ring either..
 
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