When are you going fully electric?

jpaul said:
In theory the capitalist market should correct this free lunch discontinuity by investing in time shift battery storage, for the customers who would pay more,
like the ev driver at a public charger - reduced system entropy.

interesting podcast today on driverless cars (tesla technology included) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00202gr
I hadn't realised what happened with Cruise withdrwal on the San Fran market & I'd never seen this they mention
pod didn't seem to discuss the hardware technology improvement needed in cars to store all this AI learning.
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Those batteries aren’t free either… seems mad they are using the batteries of others than are connected to four wheels that they then use to drive to cheap… oh wait. That is what they are doing.

Battery storage is battery storage, what on earth is timeshift? The 1920s where you grammar comes from?

Haven’t got time to listen to a podcast with no context in a country we aren’t in and not really related to electric cars. I’m back at work tomorrow though so will catch up with a colleague who tried out a Waymo Ipace on his west coast holiday. Have you got any video links I can show him to correct him on as that’s clearly better than real life experience isn’t it jpaul.

Talking of which; currently charging my ipace to fill (adding 65% with the Ohme) to get 3.5p /kWh. Caveat being I don’t plug in tomorrow night!
 
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I hadn't been following used prices since I bought my Leaf at the start of 2023. That drop! I could now get a Model 3, I-Pace, or Mach E for what I paid for the Leaf.

I thought I was doing well getting it for £17k given only a few months before that they were £22k-£24k. But there are now cars on Auto Trader of the same spec & year with half the mileage for £10k-£11k.

Buying on PCP was a good decision this time... GMFV is around £12.5k, so it looks like the finance company are set to lose thousands on this when I inevitably hand it back.
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
Those batteries aren’t free either…
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interesting to look it up V
Average battery energy storage revenues in Great Britain rose 25% in June to £49kMW/year as negative power prices returned. Higher wind generation and gas and carbon prices led to increased wholesale power price spreads, while frequency response prices in every service increased.
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so, competing against cheap domestic overnight energy from octopus - that's 13p / kwh per night for every commercially time shifted unit.
 
Simon said:
How have you confused cost of batteries with battery storage location revenues ?
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we assume they are making a profit with the 13p/kwh revenue, amortized battery costs included,
so (worst case) you buy a unit at offpeak 8p from octopus and can sell it during the day at 22p, how long do you think those cheap overenight units will remain available to domestic users.
 
Grid scale battery storage systems are not just about dumping energy at the evening peak, that’s small fry. There is more money to be made selling other grid services such as frequency modulation.

They charge and discharge small amounts of energy constantly in real time to maintain the grid frequency of 50hz. If there is too much power on the grid the frequency rises, too little it drops, it it drifts too far from 50hz, all kinds of bad things start to happen. The battery systems are so much better at this job than the traditional way of doing things.
 
lordrobs said:
The answer is a sliding scale from a few to as many as you can cram in depending on whether you; own it, lease it, hire it, have it as a company car or have it on an extended test drive ;)
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You forgot and how slammed you want it to look.
dlockers said:
Uh-ohh....


Nvm, stress over :D
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its the kerb weight vs gross weight (less yourself) eg mine is 1260-1490 so its 230kg less me.

If your very porky and take your fat kids for the trip to wickes you may have less capacity than a skinny armed single latte drinker ;)
 
jpaul said:
we assume they are making a profit with the 13p/kwh revenue, amortized battery costs included,
so (worst case) you buy a unit at offpeak 8p from octopus and can sell it during the day at 22p, how long do you think those cheap overenight units will remain available to domestic users.
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Revenue isn’t profit And revenue has no link to profit. All it says if revenue is up 45%.

Someone has to buy the batteries and maintain them so not sure how you come to any conclusions about profitability. I imagine the ROI is several years.
 
dlockers said:
It really isn't much is it? I have 10 bags of 25kg plaster in there atm plus me at a lean 100kg.
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Nope. I am glad a restricted myself to 12 breeze blocks before I worked out how it worked real world. (was technically overloaded)

Cars do vary though

Edit, fun fact its partly the reason they are clamping down on camper conversions.
Many vans have 750kg - 1000kg available from kerb to gross weight.
People install hundreds of kgs of stuff, add loads of water etc then add a full family in and can go well over the gross weight.
 
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Don’t mention plaster, pope will start getting excited about Paris again…


jpaul said:
we assume they are making a profit with the 13p/kwh revenue, amortized battery costs included,
so (worst case) you buy a unit at offpeak 8p from octopus and can sell it during the day at 22p, how long do you think those cheap overenight units will remain available to domestic users.
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That wasn’t the question and you know it. Just sentences of conjecture again. You don’t know how many kWh we are talking stored compared to the prices of the export and the consumption over the year.

“Domestic userss?” In the real world of us walkers that’s us! Not the talkers like you
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Nope. I am glad a restricted myself to 12 breeze blocks before I worked out how it worked real world. (was technically overloaded)

Cars do vary though

Edit, fun fact its partly the reason they are clamping down on camper conversions.
Many vans have 750kg - 1000kg available from kerb to gross weight.
People install hundreds of kgs of stuff, add loads of water etc then add a full family in and can go well over the gross weight.
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i do miss having a car i do not give 2 squits about.

something tells me i "slightly" went over the official load of my old 1.5 diesel nissan QQ when i loaded it up with sand, cement and chippings for our shed base. i was going to do 2 journeys but was told the builders merchants was about to close!.

i would not have done it normally as obviously brakes etc are overloaded but i only had to go a couple of miles on very slow roads. was the sportiest it ever looked however with its lowered suspension. (not sure about the 0 - 60 however!) :D

As for the different energy pricing depending on demand etc...... never say never etc but i am hoping they are here to stay at least for a while. the more renewables we get with peaks and troughs then i think we will still see times of huge over abundance as well as times which are a bit lean, and the biggest incentive for most people is cold hard cash.

for now home batteries are a good way to harness these cheap periods, hopefully in the not too distant future all cars will also be able to help... after all most of us with an EV could probably put aside a percentage of the car battery voluntarily to smooth the grid if it mean saving money when we needed the charge, this would be a huge amount of potential battery storage which is already out there ready to go.

PS i may have missed some posts so sorry if i got the wrong end of the argument
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
Grid scale battery storage systems are not just about dumping energy at the evening peak, that’s small fry. There is more money to be made selling other grid services such as frequency modulation.

They charge and discharge small amounts of energy constantly in real time to maintain the grid frequency of 50hz. If there is too much power on the grid the frequency rises, too little it drops, it it drifts too far from 50hz, all kinds of bad things start to happen. The battery systems are so much better at this job than the traditional way of doing things.
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That's a really good point. The idea of grid connected batteries sitting there acting as a two way buffer to give and take as required makes so much more sense than the traditional method of turning the wick up and down on the generation side.
bigmike20vt said:
As for the different energy pricing depending on demand etc...... never say never etc but i am hoping they are here to stay at least for a while. the more renewables we get with peaks and troughs then i think we will still see times of huge over abundance as well as times which are a bit lean, and the biggest incentive for most people is cold hard cash.

for now home batteries are a good way to harness these cheap periods, hopefully in the not too distant future all cars will also be able to help... after all most of us with an EV could probably put aside a percentage of the car battery voluntarily to smooth the grid if it mean saving money when we needed the charge, this would be a huge amount of potential battery storage which is already out there ready to go.
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If V2H or, less likely I know, V2G ever became mainstream it would open the door for a monumental shift. Lets say we end up with a third of the cars in the UK moving to electric and allowing for just setting aside a small percentage of battery capacity would open up tens of thousands of GWh when plugged in. Those last three words may and up being the hardest thing to manage but nothing is unsurmountable especially if it ends up being mutually beneficial.
 
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Yeah shame no one is starting the development of such control and understand habits of power management with incentives. Instead we just have those clowns at Octopus and their 'gimmicks'...

Thats the point, you dont need to invest in battery storage sites if you can capitalise on the existing batteries of cars!
 
i think that is a little harsh on octopus..... they were also one of the 1st in the uk to trial V2G to the general public a couple of years ago (not sure if it is still running).

I almost joined the scheme however it meant having to have one of their nissan leafs (due to chademo) and a leaf was not a good fit for us.

I am not suggesting they are perfect but they do more than most of the other major energy companies. They offered cheap EV charging off peak long before others did as well as bonus slots when there is oversupply.
 
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