When are you going fully electric?

b0rn2sk8 said:
I never said you can’t, it’s 100% a convenience thing but I appear to have struck a nerve there...

It’s generally recommended to take the type 2 cable with you which means you have to mess around with it every time you use the car instead of just getting in and going. For a PHEV, that’s pretty much every time you drive the car. For the sake of a few extra £ you can leave the type 2 cable coiled up in the bottom of the boot for when you need it rather than having to mess around with it every time.

You can of course leave them in the charger but that defeated the point and it could get stolen as some chargers unlock the cable when charging is completed (they should still be locked to the car until you unlock it).

Another option which may work depending on your house layout is getting a blue plug fitted somewhere and using a portable charger like the Tesla UMC or Juice Booster which are capable of 7kw. They can be handy if you don’t have anything solid near by to attach a wall unit to.



You’d really spend north of £4K on a new battery pack for a 15 year old leaf?

Even if at the pack level costs got down to the fabled $100/kWh in 5 years time, a 30kwh pack is still going to cost $3000, plus mark up, shipping, fitting and VAT. Were not there yet at the cell level, let alone at the pack level.

I get doing it on something special like a gen 1 Tesla Roaster or a gen 1 Porsche Tycan, where there are not many out here and have a hope of becoming a classic. But a Leaf?

At best you are looking at a used pack from a crashed car but even those are going to fetch significant sums of money on the used market because of how valuable the cells are, even well used ones.

People literally scrap perfectly serviceable old cars that have no faults because of wear and tear items that cost a few hundred £ to replace like new disks and pads or the timing belt needs changing. Perhaps what I should have said only a handful of people are actually going to do it...
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Although I don’t think it will be that much by then. I would assuming any battery in 10+years time is a worthwhile upgrade. If I have car I like and its in reasonable condition why would I sell it when I can upgrade the battery to something better then what I brought it with? There is comfort in what you know. I am not into swapping cars all the time unless I have lots of problems with it.

You say handful but on top of the people like me you also have a large amount of people that are not very good at change and would rather keep a car they are happy with then upgrade to a new car. At some point they will be forced to buy a new car and if they choose an EV I can see those people keeping the car and upgrading the battery over getting a new car again.

To be honest I have no idea on numbers and ratios of people who would and would not do this. Only that I think it would be more people then you would expect. Some people get attached to new cars, others like me don't see it as cost effective to swap to a new car and would rather upgrade the battery. In short if I buy a 9k or 20k EV now and its running well I would rather buy a new battery in 10 years then a new 9k or 20k EV in 10 years.
 
Journey said:
You are think the value now, not the value in 10-15 years though which was the posters point. If he keeps a car for 10-15 years and needs a new pack, he'll buy one, likely from a scrap merchant at that point in time.
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he won’t. The scrapyards won’t be getting a car with a battery still in it as it, it’s likely to have been taken out for renewable energy grid storage.
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
he won’t. The scrap won’t be getting it with a battery still on as it’s been taken out for grid storage.
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We've just been through this, in 10-15 years from now technology won't be the same, and the costs involved in pack recovery and cell re-certification may well outweigh the costs of doing the work vs making a pack from new with the same capacity in a much smaller space. The targeted/price estimate for 2030 is $76 per kWh, so an old pack at (62kWh) 60% of the useful life left in it would be worth 60% of 62 x $76 minus the re-certification costs, ~$2,827 so probably about $2k if you are lucky or £1,500 give or take. So a rebuilt pack to fit the same vehicle with more working modules might cost £2k or 'your old pack' + a fee, just like you do not with a gear box or engine.
 
Journey said:
We've just been through this, in 10-15 years from now technology won't be the same, and the costs involved in pack recovery and cell re-certification may well outweigh the costs of doing the work vs making a pack from new with the same capacity in a much smaller space. The targeted/price estimate for 2030 is $76 per kWh, so an old pack at (62kWh) 60% of the useful life left in it would be worth 60% of 62 x $76 minus the re-certification costs, ~$2,827 so probably about $2k if you are lucky or £1,500 give or take. So a rebuilt pack to fit the same vehicle with more working modules might cost £2k or 'your old pack' + a fee, just like you do not with a gear box or engine.
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you think you have by predicting the future and have your own take on it. Please don’t confuse you opinion with fact.

I said the grid as in the national grid to store renewable energy, these old Leafs will make great units to put in your garage as a power wall. That’s my opinion on the future of old EVs and the intrinsic value within them to domestic power demand and supply.

I suspect it’s why Tesla are interested in a site in the south west, have registered as a power generation company to operate on the wholesale market whilst Gigaberlin cell production seems to have been canned...

End of life processing will mean it’s more valuable to repurpose the pack where it can contribute than to break down into its composite parts again. Plenty of these experiments going on. The one using Passat GTE packs is odd though as they are hardly end of automotive life yet.
 
Joe T said:
If you think the government are going to ban the sale of ICE vehicles, and yet somehow encourage drivers out of EV into ICE, you may need to rethink your suggestions! :D
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This - there will always have to be a large financial incentive to driving an EV because the bottom line is that an EV is more hassle and less convenient than ice - so there has to be a carrot.
 
[TW]Fox said:
This - there will always have to be a large financial incentive to driving an EV because the bottom line is that an EV is more hassle and less convenient than ice - so there has to be a carrot.
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That depends on what you are doing. The bottom line for many people like myself is an ICE is just way more hassle and less convenient and there is just no point in getting a ICE in the future.
 
Pottsey said:
The bottom line for many people like myself is an ICE is just way more hassle and less convenient
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How is this the case? An ICE can be recharged in seconds giving up to 700 miles range in the process. Once filled it generates its own power.

For the driver, EV will never be as convenient as this, therefore if drivers are to be incentivised to reduce emissions through the use of an EV it has to be made fiscally beneficial - which is why there is no company car tax on pure EV.

This is why no government will make EV usage as expensive as ice usage, because people just won't want one if they do that.
 
[TW]Fox said:
because the bottom line is that an EV is more hassle and less convenient than ice - so there has to be a carrot.
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For you maybe, we needed zero incentive to switch. It is a bonus that it is cheaper to run, it's almost silent and can be re-fulled on my literal doorstep for 95% of the mileage covered.

[TW]Fox said:
How is this the case? An ICE can be recharged in seconds giving up to 700 miles range in the process.
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An EV can be recharged in seconds using the same clock as you, since putting 700 miles of range in a ICE car takes well over 60 seconds more like 180-240, so I can plug in the cable on the car at my front door, which takes roughly 30 seconds from leaving the vehicle, then recharge for 18,000 seconds... see it takes seconds. I'm gonna wait for the but if you need to go on a long journey then... then we wait for it to charge while we do something else with our seconds that we'd be doing anyhow if we had an ICE based vehicle, stop car, plug in, walk to place to use facilities, buy food drinks, consume food drinks, then unplug car, total time spent messing with the car to refuel it, less than any ICE, our use-case not to be confused with yours or anyone else's.
 
[TW]Fox said:
How is this the case? An ICE can be recharged in seconds giving up to 700 miles range in the process. Once filled it generates its own power.

For the driver, EV will never be as convenient as this, therefore if drivers are to be incentivised to reduce emissions through the use of an EV it has to be made fiscally beneficial - which is why there is no company car tax on pure EV.

This is why no government will make EV usage as expensive as ice usage, because people just won't want one if they do that.
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THis will change, once (when that point eventually comes) ICE will become major agro to refill. I mean the number of petrol stations is dropping even now, they will need to up prices to cover running costs and be less popular

Its not going to be tomorrow but its coming.

I thin the government will top the balance faster once EV for all is viable. They can kill ICE quickly for the masses with tax very easily
 
Journey said:
Again read the actual posts I have posted and I said this already... so don't confuse your ability to skip over posts with actual facts. :rolleyes:
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yeah ok your right I’m wrong. Is that the satisfication you are craving? :confused:

Mass production costs do not reflect reverse engineered retrofit packs, this costs have to be realised first too. Mainly as the cheap packs are a load of 21700 glued together with potting material. You ain’t refurbishing those easily like the Leaf NEC packs.
 
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