When are you going fully electric?

[Matthew.M]

Sorry I was thinking one thing and writing another! It's the Kia Soul that's £280 a month.
For reference the other choices are -
Zoe Signature Nav Q90 40KWH - £353.77
Ioniq 28kwh Electric Premium - £322.54
Leaf Tekna 40KW - £382.56
Smart ForFour Prime Premium Plus - £295.75


No Kona or others on the scheme as yet.

Of those:
Zoe is a pretty solid car but the rapid charging standard it uses is dead (AC). New rapid chargers are starting to omit AC and it charges slowly over 50%. The next Zoe will have CCS charging which will be a big step forward.

Leaf is a good car. But there’s no thermal management for the battery so it can overheat and reduce charging speed and power on long trips/unknown how this will impact capacity long term. It’s also inefficient in very cold weather. Again, the next Leaf due out next year corrects these issues.

Ioniq is a solid choice. No known issues other than long lead times for delivery. A very efficient car which charges quickly. Less overall capacity but it makes up for this by being very efficient.

When the next Zoe/Leaf come out it’ll be a big step forward. The best normal car (excluding Tesla) at the moment seems to be the Hyundai Kona. BMW i3 is also a good choice in the EV department (range/charging capability is good) if that’s available on the scheme and you can live with the design.

 

[Amp34]

Only when the batteries are solid state and charging is in line with filling up with petrol.
When batteries basically don't degrade at all.

When there is much greater choice for EVs for sporting credentials. When petrol is so expensive everyone has switched over.

We’re pretty much at the stage of (basically) zero degradation. Outside of specific usage scenarios (multiple fast charging in hot locations in vehicles without TMS - basically Leafs) battery degradation is just about a non issue, certainly for the average car driver keeping a car for up to a couple of hundred thousand miles.

It’s unlikely we’ll ever get to the point of being the same speed as filling with petrol, but realistically it doesn’t need to be as charging can be done at home/when parked in most cases. A faster charging speed is certainly needed from today’s though for people that drive longer distances. That’s already in the works however with 800v 350kWh chargers already being installed. The Porsche Taycan is supposed to be the first car that will benefit from it which should be released in about a year.

 

[Desmo]

They’re the only brand I know that offered free charging. I could be wrong though.

Sorry, misunderstanding. I thought you were saying not many Teslas had access to the free charging whereas you meant EV's in general. Yes, only Tesla have their own network available to drivers which is a shame. They have offered to open it up to other manufacturers but nobody has taken them up on that offer yet.

 

[robj20]

We’re pretty much at the stage of (basically) zero degradation. Outside of specific usage scenarios (multiple fast charging in hot locations in vehicles without TMS - basically Leafs) battery degradation is just about a non issue, certainly for the average car driver keeping a car for up to a couple of hundred thousand miles.

It’s unlikely we’ll ever get to the point of being the same speed as filling with petrol, but realistically it doesn’t need to be as charging can be done at home/when parked in most cases. A faster charging speed is certainly needed from today’s though for people that drive longer distances. That’s already in the works however with 800v 350kWh chargers already being installed. The Porsche Taycan is supposed to be the first car that will benefit from it which should be released in about a year.

Get them to put those batteries in mobile phones. Yet to have a mobile that is useful after 2 or so years. My Nexus 6p for instance shows a 31% health, 1086 mAh current, its a 3450mAh battery.
Imagine that in a few years old car. Initially 300 mile range now 100 mile range.

 

[Amp34]

Sorry, misunderstanding. I thought you were saying not many Teslas had access to the free charging whereas you meant EV's in general. Yes, only Tesla have their own network available to drivers which is a shame. They have offered to open it up to other manufacturers but nobody has taken them up on that offer yet.

Most of the other manufacturers are investing in charging networks with an open standard instead (CCS) - IONITY is one such example, which is owned by BMW MB, Ford and VAG.

It makes more sense in the long run, and Tesla may eventually have to convert their superchargers to CCS, or alternatively have two plugs in future cars (they are a member of the CCS alliance, so are probably already looking at ways to allow their vehicles to use the standard).

Get them to put those batteries in mobile phones. Yet to have a mobile that is useful after 2 or so years. My Nexus 6p for instance shows a 31% health, 1086 mAh current, its a 3450mAh battery.
Imagine that in a few years old car. Initially 300 mile range now 100 mile range.

That hasn't been shown to happen yet to any manufacturer. It's also worth pointing out that even if the batteries were the same (they're not) then that would be the equivalent usage case of charging your car from dead with an supercharger/high speed DC charger every day. That's equivalent to 100,000 miles a year in a Model 3...

Continued use of high power DC chargers does increase degradation, but realistically most people will charge an undepleted battery slowly overnight with standard 240V chargers.

 

[Matthew.M]

Get them to put those batteries in mobile phones. Yet to have a mobile that is useful after 2 or so years. My Nexus 6p for instance shows a 31% health, 1086 mAh current, its a 3450mAh battery.
Imagine that in a few years old car. Initially 300 mile range now 100 mile range.

Batteries in phones are kept warm, don’t have thermal management systems and also as they are more constrained for space so you use all the available capacity. Car batteries are carefully thermally managed and the top/bottom end of the capacity isn’t available so it only ever cycles between 10-90% which drastically improves life.

If you kept your phone cool and only ever charged it in shallow cycles never going above 90% it would last for years.

 

[bloodiedathame]

We did 10,000 miles on our 2015 24kWh Leaf last year. Costs us about 3/4p a mile (£150 a month PCP). Flew through it's MOT. Service on Wednesday, or should I say fluid check and a clean.

 

[UberTiger]

I've done about 500 miles on various electric skateboards this summer. I've definitely gone fully electric on that front.

It'll have to tide me over until I can afford me a nice little Tesla

 

[3t3P]

What's hilarious is the grid barely powers the UK, where will all this extra leccy come from? We already buy it from France due to failure of nerve from being world leaders in nuclear power to having to buy it across the channel.

 

[lordrobs]

What's hilarious is the grid barely powers the UK, where will all this extra leccy come from? We already buy it from France due to failure of nerve from being world leaders in nuclear power to having to buy it across the channel.

I do understand this argument but what do people actually expect? Our energy supply to outstrip demand by 50%? What would be the point in that?

I agree that capacity needs to be found but nothing is ever supplied without the demand for it already well established.

 

[Domi]

What's hilarious is the grid barely powers the UK, where will all this extra leccy come from? We already buy it from France due to failure of nerve from being world leaders in nuclear power to having to buy it across the channel.

Maybe instead of buying it we could generate it via more wind farms and solar backed up with decent storage solutions.

If you asked me 20 or 30 years ago what the future of our power supply should be then I would have said nuclear without hesitation, I have no particular issues with safety etc.
However I simply no longer believe it is the answer renewable energy generation via wind, tidal and solar absolutely could make Britain completely self sufficient and EVs could very
much be the final piece in the puzzle for this.

The biggest problem with most "renewables" is the reliability and so they need backup (and notably less and less as technology improves) battery storage is an extremely efficient way to
even out demand and reliability issues. Old EV batteries apparently will make very good storage.

Wind generation in particular of course still generates electricity during the night when supply is traditionally low , that might become the time to charge the car and could be done much more intelligently
than simply the moment you plug it in it charges at maximum.

 

[Nasher]

Theres rumors the next MR2 will be electric: https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201707/toyota-mr2-2_800x0w.jpg

We need more cars like that, for a good price before I'm remotely interested. I'm not going to spend 40 grand on a shopping cart.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I'd be all over an electric MR2 or MX-5 type car. A light weight, affordable, 2 seat soft top, 250miles range and 0-60 in about 5 seconds would be more than enough. Under £30k would be nice too!

I would imagine the design of an electric MX-5 would have to change considerably though, no point to having that huge bonnet anymore unless they made it a massive frunk...

 

[McPhee]

Has anyone worked out how much electricity will be required to be generated for 39 million electric cars replacing the 39 million cars currently on our roads? Also where will we get the new batteries for 39 million cars every 5-10 years?
Used Nissan Leaf battery pack going for £4000 on ebay that's some big money! You have to wonder which empowered politician has fingers in which pies. Globally this is boiling up to be a yet another fine mess, we really need a solution to personal travel.
Andi.

Power is fairly easy to work out.

The average UK driver does 7,900 miles per year. At an efficiency of 3.5 miles per kilowatt hour, that driver would consume an extra ~2,250kWh per year.

For 39 million cars, our demand would increase by 88TWh. The difference between our peak demand and average demand is about 28GW, or 245TWh per year. So, in theory, we should be able to manage without any new power stations. Storage and smarter use of the resources we already have will be adequate.

 

[Jono8]

Will be interesting to see what the 60kw Leaf is like.

Rumours are it is coming next year, ~250 mile realistic range and over 200bhp.

If they come up with some competitive lease deals on something like that, then i might be tempted. Unlikely though i suppose and it will remain too expensive to consider, even after taking fuel costs into account.

 

[Nasher]

I'd be all over an electric MR2 or MX-5 type car. A light weight, affordable, 2 seat soft top, 250miles range and 0-60 in about 5 seconds would be more than enough. Under £30k would be nice too!

I would imagine the design of an electric MX-5 would have to change considerably though, no point to having that huge bonnet anymore unless they made it a massive frunk...

The bonnet would just be storage and crumple zone. Maybe also cooling and things like the aircon unit etc.

It wouldn't be light though, not with all the batteries in it.

 

[Ant84]

Will be interesting to see what the 60kw Leaf is like.

Rumours are it is coming next year, ~250 mile realistic range and over 200bhp.

If they come up with some competitive lease deals on something like that, then i might be tempted. Unlikely though i suppose and it will remain too expensive to consider, even after taking fuel costs into account.

The new Kona has already surpassed that and is, by all accounts, an outstanding effort from Hyundai. I'd be surprised if the 60kw Leaf tops it.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

The Kona and the Leaf will cross shop that is certain but it isn't one sided as they do trade blows in certain areas.

The Kona will top the Leaf on range for sure as the Kona's battery is actually closer to 70kw. The Kona is 64kwh usable where as the Leaf will be 60Kwh total.

On the flip side the Kona interior isn't as good as the Leaf's and the Leaf has additional features like Pro Pilot and App support. The Leaf is also slightly less ugly.

 

[GinG]

Keeping an eye on the Kia Niro due at some point next year.

Supposedly being sold as with all of their cars with the 7 year warranty, would be interested to see what this actually covers on their all electric.

Hopefully they will sell at a reasonable price or potentially good lease deals, would be interested to see how the figures stack up to potentially change the wifes trusty Qashqai.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Kia Soul has 10 years on the battery and motor so I would hope so.