When are you going fully electric?

Jonnycoupe said:
This is all conjecture anyway...
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Not really. There are garages out there doing the bodge repairs on Tesla batteries or will replace the whole module and easy enough to google how much they charge.

Problem is going forward with future Teslas, these kind of repairs will be neigh on impossible.

No idea on how easy or hard other manufacturers EV cars are to fix.
 
Greebo said:
You not watched the video I linked to?
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Ok - my utube had jumped to the next battery video from gruber https://youtu.be/IeAmYffUczQ?t=37
u-tube comment said the Tesla battery snip cost was $5K ... versus the leaf £900 ... usa labour rates, I guess.


Jonnycoupe said:
A full IPACE does more laps of the Ring than a full F-Type, ask Dale Lomas. Granted the average speed is probably higher on the F Type which will always mean more energy use.
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yes, i-pace speed seems impressive at leguna , against same xe .... naively 10s doesn't seem an eternity to me
https://www.thedrive.com/news/23568...oject-8-flatten-laguna-secas-sedan-lap-record
The automaker enlisted the help of professional racing driver Randy Pobst, who aided Jaguar with its electric production vehicle lap record at the same track, as announced last month. Pobst wrangled the Jaguar I-Pace electric crossover around Laguna Seca in 1:48.18, a time he would beat by more than 10 seconds with the XE SV Project 8, in which he managed a 1:37.54.
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabu...rophy-is-electrifying-racing/?sh=50e3844930a4
The cabin air conditioning is removed so that the chillers can be used to provide extra temperature reduction for the battery coolant. Without this, the i-Pace would be able to run about 4-5 laps of a typical Formula E track at full pace before slowing down. Extra ducting is also installed to channel air to the stock radiator for cooling the motor and power electronics.
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Greebo said:
Not really. There are garages out there doing the bodge repairs on Tesla batteries or will replace the whole module and easy enough to google how much they charge.

Problem is going forward with future Teslas, these kind of repairs will be neigh on impossible.

No idea on how easy or hard other manufacturers EV cars are to fix.
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Depends what you mean by repair. Damaged in a crash, no one will touch them because if the high voltage cables are damaged anything could be live. Even fireman wont handle them. Its 400+v DC from the batteries which is super dangerous.
 
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Nasher said:
Depends what you mean by repair. Damaged in a crash, no one will touch them because if the high voltage cables are damaged anything could be live. Even fireman wont handle them. Its 400+v DC from the batteries which is super dangerous.
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Again showing your lack of knowledge on the subject being discussed and shooting from the hip. Post event all the HV contacters will open such that nothing outside the cells is live. Firemen who start cutting sills to get people out need to retrain and spend less time in the pub telling Nasher stuff... Cutting the roof off is not an issue. Of course with the battery frame the cabin intrusion tends to be much less anyway so less of a game to open doors etc.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Again showing your lack of knowledge on the subject being discussed and shooting from the hip. Post event all the HV contacters will open such that nothing outside the cells is live. Firemen who start cutting sills to get people out need to retrain and spend less time in the pub telling Nasher stuff... Cutting the roof off is not an issue. Of course with the battery frame the cabin intrusion tends to be much less anyway so less of a game to open doors etc.
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Except in a crash you cant guarantee that will actually happen.

No one writing health and safety procedures is going to sign it off with "ok that should happen" lol. If you touch high voltage DC you wont be able to let go and people cant pull you off. The risks from electricity cant just be fobbed off. Its dangerous, way more dangerous than a petrol car.
 
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It’s called a DFMEA and people like NHTSA would be very interested in why a system wasn’t designed with such critical safety systems implemented. Don’t drop into the error state where you think the body is an earth path for the car...

Last think after a crash I would be worried about was being pulled off. It’s the instant bang and a smoke!
 
Imagine an alternate reality where petrol cars were replacing EVs.

'omg imagine a crash, there would be fuel everywhere, everything would be on fire, people will burn to death, the emergency services won't walk into literal infernos, as if H&S are going to sign off cars where fuel hoses are all over the car and could be ruptured in a crash'
 
Nasher said:
Except in a crash you cant guarantee that will actually happen.

No one writing health and safety procedures is going to sign it off with "ok that should happen" lol. If you touch high voltage DC you wont be able to let go and people cant pull you off. The risks from electricity cant just be fobbed off. Its dangerous, way more dangerous than a petrol car.
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EVs have a “fireman’s loop” which they’re trained to find. You can see the tab for this in the front of a Tesla. They cut this cable first and it completely isolates the battery pack and allows them to cut the car to pieces without risk. This places no reliance on the cars contactors/relays which could be damaged in a crash.

Even without this Tesla’s have a pyro main fuse which goes off and bricks the battery until it’s replaced. I guess this could go wrong, but in the same way an airbag would and you don’t worry about those not deploying on a daily basis.

Very safe.
 
Kenai said:
Imagine an alternate reality where petrol cars were replacing EVs.

'omg imagine a crash, there would be fuel everywhere, everything would be on fire, people will burn to death, the emergency services won't walk into literal infernos, as if H&S are going to sign off cars where fuel hoses are all over the car and could be ruptured in a crash'
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Petrol fires are easy to put out, you can't put battery fires out and they are also very violent and toxic. They will even burn underwater and in a vacuum.
 
Nasher said:
Petrol fires are easy to put out, you can't put battery fires out and they are also very violent and toxic. They will even burn underwater and in a vacuum.
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So?

Have you considered they are not explosive like pretrol and burn considerably slower than a petrol fire so your much more likely to escape in the event of a fire?
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
So?

Have you considered they are not explosive like pretrol and burn considerably slower than a petrol fire so your much more likely to escape in the event of a fire?
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Err yes they ARE explosive! You have far less time to escape a battery fire.

With petrol only the fumes are flamable and something has to ignight it. Batteries will start burning when exposed to moisture and the fumes are also flamable.
 
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Nasher said:
Err yes they ARE explosive! You have far less time to escape a battery fire.

With petrol only the fumes are flamable and something has to ignight it. Batteries will start burning when exposed to moisture and the fumes are also flamable.
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good job there’s a steel plate between you and the battery and internal baffles to manage cell to cell propagation, like I said less intrusion means you are more likely to actually be able to get out of car... petrol fires are frightening fast.

Anyway Lions don’t play with the sheep.
 
Nasher said:
Petrol fires are easy to put out, you can't put battery fires out and they are also very violent and toxic. They will even burn underwater and in a vacuum.
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As expected the point has sailed on by, that being 'people are posting unfounded FUD and they'd no doubt do the same if the scenario were reversed', it has nothing to do with any actual genuine concerns or arguments, just a desire to post unfounded drivel repeatedly against whatever is changing.
 
jpaul said:
ok - 1750kg - I chose the 320d because blun had had that pre model 3.
so with an additional 450/700kg that the motor has to accelerate (e=mv^2) if you did drive the i4 in a sporty way, wonder how much the range is impacted,
which is another part of the ev's as sports cars equation; (I guess taycann/model3 drivers on the neurberg ring know the answer to this)


videos good - competent team , £900 with labour for a cell replace; I suppose with battery cooling system it becomes more involved.
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I liken worrying about range on a sports car to worrying about mpg on a sports car. If you're bothered about spanking battery/petrol when you press your foot down, you're buying the wrong type of car.
 
sovietspybob said:
Got this from an article on Tesla model s cars, bear in mind they're first gen and a lot of learning has come from them so newer battery chemistry's should be better again. I think we're already at a stage where the battery will outlast the rest of the car, much like an ICE vehicle is now. The bonus is when if you scrap it at 250k miles the battery pack is still worth a fair chunk of cash as it's got lots of 2nd life uses like home or grid storage and after that recycled into new batteries.

"It shows around 10 to 15% battery degradation between 150,000 to 200,000 miles, which is in line with what owners have reported in previous crowdsourced reports"
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Thank you. I wasnt trying to bait anyone by asking but this is JUST the sort of info I was asking for. 15% degradation from a 300 mile (?) range is 45 miles.. That IS acceptable I think about 150,000 miles. My 12-13 year old diesel car is on 108k so if it was 15% dropoff at that age I could live with that!
 
RoboCod said:
I liken worrying about range on a sports car to worrying about mpg on a sports car. If you're bothered about spanking battery/petrol when you press your foot down, you're buying the wrong type of car.
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yes, judging by the comments on the i-pace/trophy track conversion which have additional battery cooling to avoid throttling after sustained use, we would expect sports oriented ev's to have that, maybe the taycann already does (bmw & the like must be doing tear downs)
2nd hand market wiil be interesting if in additional to range you provide a dyno type result to show peak battery power is not reduced;
would be interesting if the car/ev would show you telematics for battery current delivered, and vehicle speed, at 10's of ms resolution.
 
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